Northrop F-18L History - you can design a better mouse trap but...

[F-2]

Regarding the YF-17, one of the other problems the prototypes had was horizontal tail stiffness. They were getting too much bending/aero-elastic effects in their tails, which had an adverse affect on performance as well.

I’ve always wondered how the cobra and hornet compared. Was this solved for the F-18?

 

[Deleted member 2278]

@Hood you asked elsewhere about anything on Canada with regard to the F-18L. I don't know if this has been posted elsewhere but I came across this:

NATO : a business history : Foxcurran, Robert R : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

Originally published as the author's research report for the degree of MBA, University of Washington, 1979

archive.org

 

[Sundog]

Regarding the YF-17, one of the other problems the prototypes had was horizontal tail stiffness. They were getting too much bending/aero-elastic effects in their tails, which had an adverse affect on performance as well.

I’ve always wondered how the cobra and hornet compared. Was this solved for the F-18?

Yes, that was definitely fixed. It would have been in the YF-17 as well if it had continued flying.

 

[TomTom]

Most of the pick here are already known, but the resolution seems a bit higher.
It's from the Twitter account @PAVE_naught.

"material on the F-18L. based on the YF-17 and F/A-18, the L-variant Hornet was to carry heavier loads than its naval counterpart with a strengthened wing able to support Sparrow and Skyflash on wingtips. it was cancelled in 1986 with few potential foreign buyers."

 

[F-2]

Apparently the Museum of Flight at King County International Airport has the F-18l cockpit mock up. I saw some old pictures of the whole thing so maybe it’s partially disassembled. They also have an F/a-18a

Northrup F/A-18L Hornet Cockpit - Seattle, WA - Static Aircraft Displays on Waymarking.com

Waymarking.com is a way to mark unique locations on the planet and give them a voice. While GPS technology allows us to pinpoint any location on the planet, mark the location, and share it with others, Waymarking is the toolset for categorizing and adding unique information for that location.

www.waymarking.com

 

[Avnut]

For your reading pleasure. This story (see attached and translated) is from the March 1978 issue of FLUG REVUE about Germany considering the F-18L.

 

[Avnut]

A couple of Northrop F-18L patches. As of this posting, they are for sale on poshmark.com

 

[Pioneer]

Out of interest, would anyone possibly know the then price difference between the Northrop F-18L and McDonnell Douglas F-18A when being considered by Israel, Canada, Australia?

Regards
Pioneer

 

[GTX]

Out of interest, would anyone possibly know the then price difference between the Northrop F-18L and McDonnell Douglas F-18A when being considered by Israel, Canada, Australia?

Regards
Pioneer

They would have all been offered under FMS so arguably the same as the USN paid.

 

[F-2]

White House Authorizes F-18L Export Discussions​

CECIL BROWNLOWJUNE 271977
White House Authorizes F-18L Export Discussions
Aeronautical Engineering
Cecil Brownlow
Washington—President Jimmy Carter, acting through State Dept, channels, last week authorized industry license export agreement discussions for the Northrop/McDonnell Douglas F-18 land-based version of the Navy F-18 carrier-based lightweight fighter with Canada, Great Britain, West Germany, Italy, France, Australia and Japan.
Earlier, the President denied a request by Iran to purchase 250 F-18s because of one of the ground rules in his new arms export control policy that stipulates such sales are prohibited to non-favored nations “until they [the aircraft] are operationally deployed with U. S. forces . . (AW&ST May 30, p. 12). The decision still provides the President with the option of approving a sale of the F-18 to Iran after the F-18 becomes operational with the U. S. Navy in the early 1980s.
A number of officials in the State and Defense departments had expected Carter to deny the Iranian request, possibly killing the F-18L project as a whole, on the basis of another stipulation in his policy stating that “development or significant modification of advanced weapons systems solely for export will not be permitted.” Neither Northrop nor McDonnell Douglas anticipates any sales of the land-based F-18L to the U. S. military services.
Iran, however, has responded to the denial with a letter from Shah Riza Pahlevi to President Carter requesting
permission to purchase a total of 460 USAF/General Dynamics F-16 fighters. The request is expected to be approved. Iran already has 160 F-16s on order, and the U. S. recently issued a letter of offer to that country permitting a buy of 300 aircraft (AW&ST June 13, p. 13).
Northrop, the prime contractor for the F-18L —McDonnell Douglas is the prime for the Navy aircraft —had relied upon the Iranian buy to provide the necessary seed money to launch the full-scale development program for the land-based version. Now, U. S. government officials expect West Germany to place an order large enough to get the program moving. West German officials would like the F-18L in the Luftwaffe inventory by 1985.
President Carter’s decision to permit the F-18 export discussions also is a blow to Defense Dept, officials who had designated the F-16 the “chosen instrument” as the standard North Atlantic Treaty Organization fighter to replace the Lockheed F-104 single-engine aircraft and wanted no competition in this category from other
U. S. hardware. The F-16 already has been chosen on a coproduction basis by Belgium, Denmark, the Netherlands and Norway.
West Germany, however, wants a twinengine aircraft such as the F-18 rather than the single-engine F-16 because of a number of accidents with the F-104.
The F-18 program as a whole had been in jeopardy earlier this year because of Navy budget limitations set by the Carter Administration. A number of top-ranking Navy officers had recommended that the program be slipped by at least a year in order to continue plans for accelerated production of the Grumman F-14 airsuperiority fighter.
White House Instructions
Funding for the F-18 in the Fiscal 1979 budget was restored under instructions from the White House (AW&ST June 13, p. 13). President Carter was pressed to keep the program under way by such influential congressional figures as House Speaker Rep. Thomas P. O’Neill, Jr. (D.-Mass.) and Sen. Edward M. Kennedy (D.-Mass.). The F-18’s General Electric F404-GE-400 powerplants are produced by the company’s facility in Lynn, Mass.
A Senate-House conference agreement on the Fiscal 1978 Defense budget also strongly endorsed the F-18 and trimmed Navy requests for F-14 procurement to provide funding for the aircraft. The conference report said that Navy plans to procure 44 F-14s in Fiscal 1978 and then accelerate the rate to 60 per year in Fiscal 1979 and 1980 and 42 in Fiscal 1981 to complete the planned buy of 521 aircraft “could create a financial problem in the naval aviation budget which would impact on the Navy’s ability to fund the F-18 program as planned.”
The report also said the conferees agreed that the F-18 program “is essential to naval aviation and should not be slowed or stretched out.”
Long-Lead Funding
The conferees cut the Navy request to 40 F-14s in Fiscal 1978 and provided longlead-time funding for 36 of the aircraft in Fiscal 1979. Congressional leaders expect to budget the F-14 at the 36-per-year level until the 521-aircraft level is achieved. The Navy’s original Fiscal 1978 request for $655.9 million for F-18 research and development and long-lead-time procurement was approved by both houses of Congress.
The increased Iranian buy of F-16s could impact upon the delivery schedules of that aircraft, although Air Force officials said deliveries to USAF and the four NATO countries will not be affected. Under the current schedule, the first Iranian F-16 is to be rolled out of General Dynamic’s Ft. Worth factory in January, 1980, with delivery in July of that year. Subsequent planned delivery rate is four aircraft per month

Northrop Readies 1976 F-18l Export Sales Push​

CECIL BROWNLOWJUNE 71976
Northrop Readies 1976 F-18L Export Sales Push
Cecil Brownlow
Los Angeles—Northrop Corp. hopes to begin a full-scale export marketing program for a land-based version of the McDonnell Douglas/Northrop F-18 carrier-based single-seat fighter by late summer or early fall.
Initiation of a full-blown program and overseas sales effort are being delayed until the Navy F-18 project has been firmed and delivery dates established so that there will be no possibility of any manufacturing conflicts between the two, according to Thomas V. Jones, Northrop chairman of the board and chief executive officer. The land-based
version of the F-18 will be aimed solely a t the export market, as is the Northrop F-5 series, with no thought of potential sales to the U. S. military, Jones told AVIATION WEEK& SPACE TECHNOLOGY.
No formal identification has yet been assigned the aircraft, which Jones refers to as the LBV for land-based version. Navy officials in Washington call it the F-18L (land-based), and there is some sentiment to name it the Cobra 2, a designation well known on the military export market.
The original Cobra was designed for the export market by Northrop (AW&ST Apr. 23, 1973, p. 55) and then evolved into the YF-17, the losing contestant against the General Dynamics YF-16 in the Air Force lightweight fighter flyoff competition. The YF-17, in turn, formed the core for the F-18 design, with McDonnell Douglas assuming the role of prime contractor because of its past experience with carrier-based aircraft.
Northrop will take over the role as prime contractor and final assembler for, the land-based aircraft, with McDonnell Douglas as the major airframe subcontractor, although final details of just what each company will produce are still to be worked out, according to Jones.
McDonnell Douglas probably will build the wing and other horizontal surfaces of the aircraft, while Northrop will assume responsibility for the armaments system, engine installation and possibly the nose avionics package as well as final assembly. McDonnell Douglas will be re-
sponsible for approximately 60% of the Navy F-18 airframe as well as for final assembly.
Defense Dept, and Navy officials in Washington are pleased with Northrop’s decision to push a land-based version of the aircraft on the export market because additional sales of a fighter with high commonality with the F-18 could reduce substantially the latter’s unit cost to the U. S.
Defense Dept, officials also confirm Jones’ contention that there will be a large export market for the aircraft despite the head start of the F-16 and its selection by a four-nation North Atlantic Treaty Organization consortium. The LBV, according to Jones, is designed to be an all-purpose successor to the McDonnell Douglas F-4, with capabilities to perform as an interceptor, in the close-support role and as a long-range interdiction aircraft.
Jones foresees a market for an advanced tactical fighter of 3,000-4,000 aircraft, including the 800 F-18s on order by the Navy and Marine Corps. He believes “conservatively” that the land-based version of the F-18 can capture up to 2,000 of these sale°
At the same time, he stresses that his aircraft is not in a head-on competition with the USAF-backed F-16 because of the LBV’s mission versatility. In this regard, he points out that he withdrew his salesmen on the F-17 from Europe when the Air Force selected the F-16 as the winner in its lightweight fighter competition.
Northrop has discussed in general terms the capabilities of the land-based version of the F-18 with a number of countries, most specifically with Iran.
Jones adds that, by approving production of the LBV, the Navy will have the no-cost advantage of additional static tests to confirm the design parameters of its aircraft, more flight tests, reduced facility overhead and near-concurrent orders for major common systems such as the General Electric F404 16,000-lb.thrust engine that should drive downwards the unit price for the F-18. Engine orders could double, depending on the quantity of export sales.
YF-17 Exhibit Plan
Northrop Corp. hopes to negotiate Air Force permission to exhibit its YF-17 lightweight fighter prototype at England’s Farnborough air show Sept. 5-12.
Primary purpose would be to demonstrate the potential of a land-based version of the Navy F-18, which evolved from the YF-17 design and which Northrop plans to develop for export.
Two YF-17 prototypes were built for the Air Force lightweight fighter competition eventually won by the General Dynamics YF-16. USAF retains title to both, although one has been detailed to NASA for flight test purposes.
Jones says the LBV should follow closely in the development cycle on the heels of the Navy F-18 in order to take advantage of these cost-saving measures, but not so closely as to impair the latter’s schedule. This was one of the reasons, he says, that McDonnell Douglas, rather than Northrop, is the prime contractor for the carrier-based F-18.
The Navy can make whatever changes it desires to the basic F-18 design, and McDonnell Douglas can concentrate on them without having to consider any impositions upon the land-based aircraft. Northrop’s management, in turn, can concentrate upon the LBV without having to debate whether its decisions will affect the carrier-based F-18.
The LBV’s performance will be substantially above that of the Navy aircraft because of less pressing structural requirements than those demanded for carrier operations and the combat radius stipulated by the Navy carrying only internal fuel.
The land-based aircraft will be about 7,000 lb. lighter than the F-18, and 3,500 lb. of this is reduced fuel load. Landing gear weight will be about half that of the Navy aircraft because of the lower sink rates required for land aircraft, and there will be no requirement for a folding wing. The arresting gear will be considerably lighter, and the avionics package will be simpler. The reduced weight, with the same thrust engine and the same aerodynamic design, provides the superior combat performance that Jones believes will make the LBV attractive as an F-4 successor on the export market.
The only apparent aerodynamic difference between the Navy F-18 and the LBV is the elimination on the latter of a wing slot required for high angle of attack carrier landing approaches.
Approximately 60% of the parts will be common by weight. Commonality in the high-use systems will run 85-95%.
Northrop, in current studies, is financing the LBV project with its own funding and, according to Jones, will ask for no U. S. government aid. Northrop, he says, will accept full responsibility for financing the project throughout, adding: “The defense industry should do its own financing for export products. We can’t expect Congress to fund our plants and facilities [for export items].” Approximately 94% of Northrop facilities are companyowned at the present time.
Jones believes the LBV performance permitting it to carry out missions as a close-support aircraft, interceptor and interdictor will prove effective to budget-restricted nations requiring a replacement for the F-4 in the 1980s. Coproduction eventually may be offered to export customers, but initial sales are envisioned as off the shelf.

 

[Avnut]

A little more info about the F-18L from Dennis R. Jenkins book "F/A-18 Hornet - A Navy Success Story". It fleshes out some of the details.

 

[ZacYates]

One question that I’ve been pondering recently is the designation: are there any sources - or even hints - that give a production designation for the F-18L? Would it have stayed that, or perhaps been pushed to F-19?

A purely academic question, sure, but one that’s had my mind working harder than it should!

 

[aim9xray]

"F-18L" became official; it probably would have stayed that (F-18L). A two-seat trainer would have been TF-18L if mission capabilities were deleted; or possibly F-18M if not.

 

[ZacYates]

That’s pretty darned definitive! Thank you so much!

 

[hesham]

Hi,

did we send this precisely picture before ?.

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/11/be/ac/11beac7579d036e36e38f8ff11017157.jpg

 

[RAP]

Another brochure for the F-18L. The photoshoped picture is also at post no. 69 but this includes information on on the back.

 

[fightingirish]

The Northrop YF-17 prototype (S/N 72-1570) redesignated as Northrop YF-18L, or in in this case as Northrop CF-18L for the RCAF.
Source (X fka twitter):

https://twitter.com/x/status/1862198882244907376

View: https://x.com/kadonkey/status/1862198882244907376?t=XRKJJyQlr52ZYDjP38p8yg&s=19