New Chinese Type 055 Destroyer

[yeetmahboi]

Seems that the concept of slow, stealthy subsonic anti-ship missiles reached the dead end; big fast supersonics are the future.

Both arent mutually exclusive. A stealthy 3M54 would indeed be a sight to behold, before the fiscal issues slam down.

 

[Scott Kenny]

But seriously.

8 Burkes. Each has roughly a hundred missiles. Let's say 2/3 are anti-air, so 30 per ship. My calculator suggets it's 240. Even if we leave 8 Tomahawks/LRASM per ship and the 8 Harpoons in separate launchers it's still 128 missiles. And of that they simulate a salvo of 32 and boast it?

yeah, seems a bit silly.

Even if we do assume that the SM6s aren't being thrown in as near-hypersonic AShBMs, that's really the volley of maybe two Burkes, not 8. I'd found a claimed missile loadout for a Tico from 2018, and guesstimated the loadout a Burke would have from that. Came up with ~20x Tomahawks or whatever in the VLS. (Not sure if LRASMs would get stuffed into the Mk41 or would be extras like Harpoons or NSMs).

The usual "The US .gov is very displeased with your existence" Tomahawk volley/message seems to be on the order of 20 weapons.

I wouldn't expect anything less than a 50-weapon strike if we're actually intending to sink another ship, especially if it's an AAW-focused DDG!

 

[Martes]

Both arent mutually exclusive.

Yep. A well-timed combined strike always makes things much more difficult.

I wouldn't expect anything less than a 50-weapon strike if we're actually intending to sink another ship, especially if it's an AAW-focused DDG!

Absolutely!

And considering present escort with some kind of local air cover, and such a
Whoever planned this exercise was a little bit inattentive.

One way I see it - they could have launched 32 as penetration test, and the real punch would come afterwards...

Even if we do assume that the SM6s aren't being thrown in as near-hypersonic AShBMs,

...those included.

 

[Martes]

Whoever planned this exercise was a little bit inattentive.

I mean - in a purely defensive context this scenario is an equivalent of Yamato's last sortie.

055 is a capable ship, but numbers are numbers.
112 launch cells + 24 close range AA.
Let's say same 2 to 1 ratio in offensive vs. defensive missiles, we get 92 AA missiles.
Let's suppose 100% effectiveness (which never is) and add 30% to spoofing - 125.
That's the absolute maximum number of missiles she can handle without reloading.

Let's suppose each of her escorts adds the same 24 close range AA and - we can be generous - 24 more long range.
144 + 30% to spoofing = 188

Total 313. 8 Burkes have, let's say 600, including AA that can target a surface ship.
So unless the Chinese group spots them first and eliminates at least half before the attack is launched, it's toast.

 

[joshjosh]

Total 313. 8 Burkes have, let's say 600, including AA that can target surface ship.
So unless the Chinese group spots them first and eliminates at least half before the attack is launched, it's toast.

At the same time, if it takes 313 missiles, or 4 full Burkes, to sink a type 055, we are toast.

 

[Martes]

It's ceiling numbers, but yes, when you do the US side planning, you absolutely should consider them as baseline.

However, don't forget that the Burke (+3 LCS for balance?) herself would require not much less for a confirmed kill.

Problem is, of course, this does not take any offensive air assets into account and it's rather difficult to image such surface-surface clash without some air power presence. But then with the Pacific weather it's not totally impossible.

It is a curious paradox of modern naval warfare - assuming air defense systems work, ships generally have more defensive missiles than offensive, and thus in a duel can reach a situation when the combat is down to artillery - and that's a single gun nowadays with not very large magazine - and then? Machine guns? Boarding? Pistols? Knifes? Broken chairs? The engagement may ultimately be decided by who kept a helicopter with a spare Sea Skua.

 

[yeetmahboi]

The engagement may ultimately be decided by who kept a helicopter with a spare Sea Skua.

I imagine keeping a deployment of Tier IIs on board with a small, high speed semi-submersible. When the boat duel falls down to gunslinging, send out the boys toward the ship and ambush them. Either frogman tactics the keel or just outright board the ship.

 

[Scott Kenny]

I imagine keeping a deployment of Tier IIs on board with a small, high speed semi-submersible. When the boat duel falls down to gunslinging, send out the boys toward the ship and ambush them. Either frogman tactics the keel or just outright board the ship.

That's not practical versus a fast, maneuvering warship.

Especially not one with a functioning active sonar. Humans versus 200db of sound equals flesh bags full of bone powder.

 

[yeetmahboi]

Humans versus 200db of sound equals flesh bags full of bone powder.

That got a tiny chuckle out of me.

Back to topic. If the Type 055 could track and intercept 32 targets simultaneously then that's some impressive fire control channel counts, of course under the assumption that the drones only did picket duties.

 

[sferrin]

But seriously.

8 Burkes. Each has roughly a hundred missiles. Let's say 2/3 are anti-air, so 30 per ship. My calculator suggets it's 240. Even if we leave 8 Tomahawks/LRASM per ship and the 8 Harpoons in separate launchers it's still 128 missiles. And of that they simulate a salvo of 32 and boast it?

There are zero LRASMs on a Burke and no antiship variant of Tomahawk. (The old one was repurposed and the "new" one isn't in service yet to my knowledge.) Oh, and most don't have any Harpoons.

 

[sferrin]

At the same time, if it takes 313 missiles, or 4 full Burkes, to sink a type 055, we are toast.

Well no shit. The same works in reverse.

 

[yeetmahboi]

There are zero LRASMs on a Burke and no antiship variant of Tomahawk. (The old one was repurposed and the "new" one isn't in service yet to my knowledge.) Oh, and most don't have any Harpoons.

Even if LRASM-A is only a stopgap, I wish the USN has pursued a VLS-based variant to replace TacTom instead of fiddling around with a 40yrs old design. At least the JASSM airframe is VLO.