New Chinese Type 055 Destroyer

TomS said:
chuck4 said:
sferrin said:
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So these VLS can do both cold and hot launches?
Click to expand...

Didn't we figure out that the do hot launches by building an exhaust plenum into the canister, so hot launch allows for smaller missiles than cold launch?
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Very likely colod launch allows larger missiles but the larger cell allow integral plenums for hot launching smaller missiles. Still, we're seeing a Sizzler (YJ-18A?) being hot-launched and it's a good 2m longer than Tomahawk.
 
news.usni.org

China Has World’s Largest Navy With 355 Ships and Counting, Says Pentagon - USNI News

China has the biggest maritime force on the globe with an inventory of about 355 vessels, according to a Defense Department report released Wednesday. With 355 ships in its fleet, the People’s Liberation Army Navy (PLAN) is slated to expand its inventory to 420 ships within the next four years...
news.usni.org news.usni.org

According to this, they have 355 large naval ships with projected number reaching 420 in next four years and 460 ships by 2030. That does not include 85 cruise missile armed patrol boats that will also take active role in a major naval war with US.

They have had numerical dominance (not to mention the advantage of home court in any potential matchup with US navy) but now they are rapidly moving toward platform dominance (their 003 aircraft carrier is very close in tonnage to ford class with future nuclear powered one probably matching, and their destroyers 055 already surpassing ours in term of tonnage).

And US navy is still spending more money than them. This isn't just shame. It's a crime scene in which the American taxpayers are the victims.
 

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donnage99 said:
news.usni.org

China Has World’s Largest Navy With 355 Ships and Counting, Says Pentagon - USNI News

China has the biggest maritime force on the globe with an inventory of about 355 vessels, according to a Defense Department report released Wednesday. With 355 ships in its fleet, the People’s Liberation Army Navy (PLAN) is slated to expand its inventory to 420 ships within the next four years...
news.usni.org news.usni.org

According to this, they have 355 large naval ships with projected number reaching 420 in next four years and 460 ships by 2030. That does not include 85 cruise missile armed patrol boats that will also take active role in a major naval war with US.

They have had numerical dominance (not to mention the advantage of home court in any potential matchup with US navy) but now they are rapidly moving toward platform dominance (their 003 aircraft carrier is very close in tonnage to ford class with future nuclear powered one probably matching, and their destroyers 055 already surpassing ours in term of tonnage).

And US navy is still spending more money than them. This isn't just shame. It's a crime scene in which the American taxpayers are the victims.
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The Type 055, 8 and counting, is superior RIGHT NOW to the Ticonderoga replacement the USN might have in a decade or two. We could have a Zumwalt with SPY-6, and better than the Type 055s in every way, right now but no.
 
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sferrin said:
The Type 055, 8 and counting, is superior RIGHT NOW to the Ticonderoga replacement the USN might have in a decade or two. We could have a Zumwalt with SPY-6, and better than the Type 055s in every way, right now but no.
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It's number and quality. Navy can only afford 1 or the other because we had the brilliant idea of transform the whole fleet into a littoral low intensity 21st century navy early 2000's so now we retiring ships faster than we can build them. No administration (repub or dem) want the optics of reducing ship numbers (it's brought up every presidential debate for the last 20 years) to build cruiser version of zumwalt in significant number. The brilliant idea of a whole fleet of multirole stealth fighter across service rather than a high low mix of upgraded f-14 and deep strike stealth platform in limited number like that of air force didn't help either.

So fast foward to now, we end up with both numerical and platform inferiority.
 
donnage99 said:
According to this, they have 355 large naval ships with projected number reaching 420 in next four years and 460 ships by 2030. That does not include 85 cruise missile armed patrol boats that will also take active role in a major naval war with US.
Click to expand...
Well 223 of that number seem to be coast guard cutters....

Tonnage and numbers doesn't necessarily matter very much - as the Moskva incident shows, you can be sitting in a 18,000 ton steel behemoth tricked out with hypersonic cruise missiles and multiple SAMs but its the quality of the crew that is the difference between effectiveness and joining Davey Jones' locker.

Sure China might build another 65 boats/ships in 4 years but that's 65 additional crews to find. Even in a population of billions there are only so many who are qualified to enter the PLAN and there are only so many experienced senior personnel for training. Rapidly expanding fleets can get short of experienced manpower to leaven out the conscript mass.

Mod hat on, this topic is now best suited for the military section as it's past the project phase and very little content here is actually project related.
 
Yes, raw numbers of missiles, etc only tell part of the story. Its not only crew quality, but also design experience and emphasis, attention to damage control, ancillary and supply vessels....
 
TomS said:
chuck4 said:
So these VLS can do both cold and hot launches?
Click to expand...

Didn't we figure out that the do hot launches by building an exhaust plenum into the canister, so hot launch allows for smaller missiles than cold launch?
Click to expand...

This is a bit late, but there are supposedly 3 different configurations.

1. Hot launch of quad-packed small missiles with exhaust in the middle. I haven't seen this demonstrated, might not actually exist.
2. Hot launch of medium-sized missiles with a concentric circle exhaust system. This still supposedly allows very long missiles, just of limited diameter.
3. Cold launch of large missiles that are basically internal cell diameter with a gas-generator on the bottom.

The big difference in the Chinese system to Mk.41 and 57 is that they started with the assumption that there will be no reloading outside of well-equipped ports. This resulted in a design where unlike with the American system, the launcher itself is really simple. Basically just a box with a door, and hookups for power, cooling and deluge system. All the complexity is moved into the canister, which is not considered disposable but is where all the fiddly and expensive bits are located. This helps flexibility in that you can fit 3 very different kinds of canisters/launch systems in the same cell, and it helps construction speed in that the empty launchers basically cost nothing, which helps in cranking out ships like sausages. (With the idea that when tensions rise, increasing missile/canister construction is faster than laying down new hulls.)
 
Tuna said:
TomS said:
chuck4 said:
So these VLS can do both cold and hot launches?
Click to expand...

Didn't we figure out that the do hot launches by building an exhaust plenum into the canister, so hot launch allows for smaller missiles than cold launch?
Click to expand...

1. Hot launch of quad-packed small missiles with exhaust in the middle. I haven't seen this demonstrated, might not actually exist.
Click to expand...
Possibly still notional, no sign of a naval SAM of that size has been shown yet. The smaller missile used in their "Red-11" land-based system may be intended for navalization, as that's the usual path, but remains to be seen if they're hot-launched or sized to quad-pack.
 
Interestingly, only 112 VLS cells overall... More than a Burke, sure, but the Burkes can quad-pack the ESSMs for point defense and the Chinese haven't shown that capability yet. So I think the actual missile count is pretty close to even between the Burkes and the Type 055, let alone the Ticos.

I'd actually say that the advantage is the sheer depth of the Chinese VLS, more than the diameter. Means you can have a stupid-long missile, or a very heavy one with a long initial booster.
 
just like the koreans they realize you don't really need to go that much above the burke in term of missiles carried. there are other requirements and capabilities that need the space more.
 
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And theirs actually work. Still waiting for news on the much publicized hypersonic test in the US from a couple weeks ago.
 

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