Navy Seeks Rail Guns, Lasers, Cruise Missiles To Improve Pacific Firepower

[bobbymike]

http://nationalinterest.org/blog/the-buzz/the-us-navys-biggest-what-if-could-super-battleships-make-19147

Big ships with heavy armor are unlikely to solve the A2/AD dilemma. However, big ships with effective systems of defense components, combined with a large number of extremely lethal offensive systems, can go a long way toward defeating a system of anti-access systems.

 

[sferrin]

http://nationalinterest.org/blog/the-buzz/the-us-navys-biggest-what-if-could-super-battleships-make-19147

Big ships with heavy armor are unlikely to solve the A2/AD dilemma. However, big ships with effective systems of defense components, combined with a large number of extremely lethal offensive systems, can go a long way toward defeating a system of anti-access systems.

"Huh, maybe we actually need that Zumwalt we're cancelling."

 

[bobbymike]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rnt2yCZYq2Q

 

[jsport]

Chief of Naval Operations (CNO) Adm. John Richardson visits Naval Surface Warfare Center Dahlgren Division (NSWCDD).

;D

VLS based missiles might be an alternative to something that massive throwing just railroad spikes, no matter how fast they are. If it is going to be that large it needs to throw ATACM size warheads against area targets (maybe a little slower). Oh or one could have a smaller rapid fire EMTC gun and convert this beast into a larger diameter EMTC while one is at it.

 

[bobbymike]

http://www.nextbigfuture.com/2017/01/us-navy-will-fire-150-kilowatt-laser-on.html

 

[bobbymike]

http://www.c4isrnet.com/articles/bae-systems-acquires-railgun-developer

 

[bobbymike]

http://www.upi.com/Defense-News/2017/03/02/Lockheed-Martin-introduces-Paragon-direct-attack-bomb/2381488471732/

 

[bobbymike]

https://news.usni.org/2017/03/09/panel-navy-must-invest-counter-c4isr-unmanned-boats-railgun-prepare-future-fight

 

[bobbymike]

http://www.popularmechanics.com/military/research/a25747/navy-ramjet-model-rocket-credit-card/

Yes long way from a deployed weapon system but relates back to my comment concerning the Army 500km range missiles taking 10 years to deploy???

 

[Ian33]

http://www.popularmechanics.com/military/research/a25747/navy-ramjet-model-rocket-credit-card/

Yes long way from a deployed weapon system but relates back to my comment concerning the Army 500km range missiles taking 10 years to deploy???

To the fleet in 3 to 4 years? They deserve a unit citation. I'm not joking either. That's proper, old school 'skunk works speed'

 

[bobbymike]

https://news.usni.org/2017/03/23/24782-congress-navy-laser-railgun-hypervelocity-projectiles

 

[bobbymike]

http://www.businessinsider.com/missile-gap-us-navy-russia-china-lrasm-2017-3

 

[bobbymike]

http://www.scout.com/military/warrior/story/1672164-navy-searam-missile-defends-multiple-attacks

 

[bobbymike]

https://news.usni.org/2017/03/28/marines-upgrading-todays-planes-to-prepare-for-tomorrows-distributed-high-end-fight

 

[bring_it_on]

2017 DIRECTED ENERGY SUMMIT Live Stream

https://www.boozallen.com/s/event/2017-directed-energy-summit.html

 

[bobbymike]

https://news.usni.org/2017/03/29/navy-mda-experimenting-laser-prototypes-surface-warfare-ballistic-missile-defense

 

[bobbymike]

http://www.nationaldefensemagazine.org/blog/Lists/Posts/Post.aspx?ID=2485

But the services need to take a closer look at the "prompt global strike" concept that has been studied for more than a decade, he noted. The capability would allow the United States to strike targets with conventional warheads anywhere on Earth in about an hour, according to a Congressional Research Services report.

"We've got to increase the speed of precision, and then we have to address what weapons we use to actually prosecute the targets," he said. "That is not a trivial problem, even in the static target setting. And in a mobile target setting, it is incredibly complex."

 

[bobbymike]

https://www.fool.com/investing/2017/04/22/navys-new-mach-6-em-railgun-almost-ready-for-prime.aspx

 

[bobbymike]

http://breakingdefense.com/2017/04/355-ship-navy-takes-at-least-18-years-cbo/

$33 billion from 2023 to 2027 or $165 billion over a five year period when the expected total federal government spending will be around $25.3 TRILLION. This is 65/100 of ONE PERCENT. This is ridiculously cheap. It is astonishing to me this is regarded as unaffordable.

 

[bobbymike]

http://www.realcleardefense.com/articles/2017/05/05/need_for_speed_will_hypersonic_weapons_pay_off_111317.html

Patent mentioned in the article

https://www.google.com/patents/US8424809

 

[bobbymike]

http://www.asdnews.com/mobile/news-70351/GA_Successfully_Tests_Railgun_Hypersonic_Projectiles.htm?hash=72df8b8c8020f12b2ac54cd2eb01d2bd&campaignid=37829&messageid=38015&l=3&utm_source=ASDNews&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Channel_31_18_5&utm_content=bobbymike34@gmail.com

http://breakingdefense.com/2017/05/navy-railgun-ramps-up-in-test-shots/

 

[bobbymike]

http://nationalinterest.org/blog/the-buzz/the-us-navy-has-big-plans-replace-the-tomahawk-cruise-21105

 

[bring_it_on]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5OsoGl7Xq1Y

 

[bring_it_on]

Missile Defense Agency High Altitude Long Endurance (HALE) Unmanned Aircraft Request for Information (RFI)

The Missile Defense Agency (MDA) Advanced Technology Directorate is interested in industry's capability to provide a High Altitude Long Endurance (HALE) unmanned aircraft in the 2023 timeframe. A HALE aircraft with greater payload capacity is needed to carry a high energy laser system payload to high altitudes to mature Boost Phase Intercept (BPI). The results of this RFI will inform future program options for maturing BPI technology and capability following the current Low Power Laser Demonstrator (LPLD) effort. Proposed aircraft should be able to maintain continuous positive ground control and are expected to operate from the Pacific Missile Range Facility in Hawaii and Edwards AFB in California. Unmanned platforms are highly desired; however, manned concepts will be considered with appropriate justification.


In parallel with ongoing BPI technology maturation and demonstration projects, BMDS capability requirements for an airborne high energy laser BPI capability are being developed. Based on analysis to date, Paragraph 2.a below describes the ideal platform characteristics to enable robust BPI capability. MDA is interested in far-term platform approaches to meet the full performance of Paragraph 2.a and mid-term solutions that demonstrate significant progress toward achieving these performance parameters. Concepts that do not meet these parameters are requested to include future options for improving performance, where applicable.


Under this BAA/RFI, multiple White Papers and/or proposals at differing levels of capability and/or risk are acceptable. Contractors are encouraged to include information on alternate uses and potential commercialization for proposed aircraft designs along with potential Government and/or non-Government co-sponsors. Areas such as cost, life-cycle affordability, and further commercialization will be important considerations in evaluating future concepts and for any forthcoming acquisitions.

 

[muttbutt]

Missile Defense Agency High Altitude Long Endurance (HALE) Unmanned Aircraft Request for Information (RFI)

The Missile Defense Agency (MDA) Advanced Technology Directorate is interested in industry's capability to provide a High Altitude Long Endurance (HALE) unmanned aircraft in the 2023 timeframe. A HALE aircraft with greater payload capacity is needed to carry a high energy laser system payload to high altitudes to mature Boost Phase Intercept (BPI). The results of this RFI will inform future program options for maturing BPI technology and capability following the current Low Power Laser Demonstrator (LPLD) effort. Proposed aircraft should be able to maintain continuous positive ground control and are expected to operate from the Pacific Missile Range Facility in Hawaii and Edwards AFB in California. Unmanned platforms are highly desired; however, manned concepts will be considered with appropriate justification.

.

If unmanned, would it be significantly bigger then a Global hawk?

 

[sublight_]

Missile Defense Agency High Altitude Long Endurance (HALE) Unmanned Aircraft Request for Information (RFI)

The Missile Defense Agency (MDA) Advanced Technology Directorate is interested in industry's capability to provide a High Altitude Long Endurance (HALE) unmanned aircraft in the 2023 timeframe. A HALE aircraft with greater payload capacity is needed to carry a high energy laser system payload to high altitudes to mature Boost Phase Intercept (BPI). The results of this RFI will inform future program options for maturing BPI technology and capability following the current Low Power Laser Demonstrator (LPLD) effort. Proposed aircraft should be able to maintain continuous positive ground control and are expected to operate from the Pacific Missile Range Facility in Hawaii and Edwards AFB in California. Unmanned platforms are highly desired; however, manned concepts will be considered with appropriate justification.

.

If unmanned, would it be significantly bigger then a Global hawk?

Much bigger than global hawk, and if you want near space/joint warfighting space, then four times bigger than that.

 

[DrRansom]

Much bigger than global hawk, and if you want near space/joint warfighting space, then four times bigger than that.

Such a system doesn't solve the problem of the original ABL, that it's cost and size makes it prohibitively expensive and risky to fly inside defended airspace. Yet the engagement window and laser ranges mandate the system flying relatively close to launch sites.

 

[fredymac]

The ABL was not “prohibitively expensive” nor risky to fly in undefended air space. Any HEL by its very nature is capable of acting as a massively powerful DIRCM. Indeed, the Air Force SHiELD Laser is just that. The ABL laser had sufficient power to fire directly on a hostile fighter rather than waiting for it to launch its missiles. Even so, just as tankers and AWACS operate with fighter protection when needed, so would an ABL if only to conserve lasing time.

The renewed MDA interest in HEL based boost phase intercept indicates electric powered lasers may allow increased lasing time and reduced packaging to permit persistent, very high altitude operations. At 60,000 feet, there is not much left of the atmosphere to bother the laser beam and if the target geometry keeps the beam above 30,000 feet, it will be much more effective. Second stage intercept might also come into play depending upon positioning along the launch track.

 

[sferrin]

Missile Defense Agency High Altitude Long Endurance (HALE) Unmanned Aircraft Request for Information (RFI)

The Missile Defense Agency (MDA) Advanced Technology Directorate is interested in industry's capability to provide a High Altitude Long Endurance (HALE) unmanned aircraft in the 2023 timeframe. A HALE aircraft with greater payload capacity is needed to carry a high energy laser system payload to high altitudes to mature Boost Phase Intercept (BPI). The results of this RFI will inform future program options for maturing BPI technology and capability following the current Low Power Laser Demonstrator (LPLD) effort. Proposed aircraft should be able to maintain continuous positive ground control and are expected to operate from the Pacific Missile Range Facility in Hawaii and Edwards AFB in California. Unmanned platforms are highly desired; however, manned concepts will be considered with appropriate justification.

.

If unmanned, would it be significantly bigger then a Global hawk?

Much bigger than global hawk, and if you want near space/joint warfighting space, then four times bigger than that.

 

[Moose]

Missile Defense Agency High Altitude Long Endurance (HALE) Unmanned Aircraft Request for Information (RFI)

The Missile Defense Agency (MDA) Advanced Technology Directorate is interested in industry's capability to provide a High Altitude Long Endurance (HALE) unmanned aircraft in the 2023 timeframe. A HALE aircraft with greater payload capacity is needed to carry a high energy laser system payload to high altitudes to mature Boost Phase Intercept (BPI). The results of this RFI will inform future program options for maturing BPI technology and capability following the current Low Power Laser Demonstrator (LPLD) effort. Proposed aircraft should be able to maintain continuous positive ground control and are expected to operate from the Pacific Missile Range Facility in Hawaii and Edwards AFB in California. Unmanned platforms are highly desired; however, manned concepts will be considered with appropriate justification.

.

If unmanned, would it be significantly bigger then a Global hawk?

Much bigger than global hawk, and if you want near space/joint warfighting space, then four times bigger than that.

Bigger, with far more onboard power generation.

 

[ouroboros]

Wonder if Stratolaunch's Roc would be a suitable surrogate for the time being, seeing as how it doesn't have anything to carry at the moment...

 

[jsport]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5OsoGl7Xq1Y

this is bigger boondoggle then first assumed
truly amazing.. in a bad way.

 

[bobbymike]

https://www.usni.org/magazines/proceedings/2017-06/nobody-asked-me-navy-needs-coastal-defense-cruise-missiles

 

[phrenzy]

DEW is certainly the order of the day for ABM, looking at terminal maneuvers that the df-21d is supposedly capable of means early interception is essential since a kinetic kill with an SM-3 is going to be extremely hard. Much easier to target, re-target track and acquire over time with a laser. If you lose your track at the wrong moment with an AEGIS style missile system you gotta fire off another missile, probably after the intercep window has closed. The Power you can put through newer solid state lasers is truly impressive and the power you can draw from tubojet/fan engines nowdays is also impressive. The real issue of that the platform has to be very stealthy or in some other way survivable and forward deployed of whatever (likely carrier group) it's defending.

Very interesting concept, I'd be curious to know how much ISR is in the HALE concept or if it just takes offboard data from say an F-35 or early warning satellite and naval Radar and is just primarily a platform for the laser?

Can't help but be reminded of AARS with a big laser module.

 

[sferrin]

DEW is certainly the order of the day for ABM, looking at terminal maneuvers that the df-21d is supposedly capable of means early interception is essential since a kinetic kill with an SM-3 is going to be extremely hard.

Why would a kinetic kill, in space, be anymore difficult than any other missile in space? If worse came to worst they could always put PAC-3 at sea.

 

[phrenzy]

Because of the increasing number of decoys, ECM and non traditional ballistic trajectories any kinetic kill is going to be harder. As you point out they are more predictable in boost and, in space, mid course, but you get it wrong once with an ABM you lose the intercept window, unless you fire them in volleys like CIWS rounds.

With enough power you can re-target and re-fire, or persistently lase a target through any length of time you have a good track.

Not saying kinetic kill can't be made to work, but it's much easier to move a targeting pod some miniscule fraction of a degree in an areal platform than it is to get a KKV to move miles out of its predicted path once it's moving at such high intercept speeds and you also have to pack in a lot more of the kill chain sensors on board the missile in case of a breakdown in any data links feeding info to them to get the data for the kill. On an aerial platform like HALE you get everything back unless it's shot down

Technically kinetic intercept is not really a problem, but from a cost and practically perspective DEW makes more sense, why fire 3 big smart expensive missiles when you can burn a little extra jp-8 for multiple lasing shots across a wider time span?

Edit: no reason not to do both of course, SM-3 with block upgrades well likely continue to be part of the picture for a long long time, the navy ha airways taken a highly layered approach to these sort of defensive concepts (as have all western ABM systems). Pac-3 at sea isn't so silly, just like Aegis ashore isn't, just missiles are expensive That's why the offensive missiles are being developed, because they are cheaper than the stuff they destroy and if you need to spend 5 to 1 on the defensive against new hypersonic or ballistic anti shipping weapons you've got a problem. If you can defend 1 to 1 it better yet get aneconomic advantage, making the opponent eat 3 to 1 to try again get a missile through because lasing is cheap then they have the problem.

 

[Moose]

Lost in some of the recent coverage is this quote,from NDM's June 15 article on the railgun program, which is very interesting:

“We are gradually increasing firing rate and energy level, and evaluating and grooming the system as we go,” he said.
ONR plans to conduct tests at five rounds per minute in June, and anticipates that the railgun will perform rep-rate operations at 32-megajoules of energy by the end of the year, Boucher said.

Also an informative section at the end about GA's self-funded railgun prototype. It's around 3 mj and seems they're aiming it at cruise missile defense. GA is testing it in Utah in hopes of attracting attention from the services

The company hopes the Army or Navy will soon test the technology on a vehicle or ship after it proves itself in Utah, he noted.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5OsoGl7Xq1Y

this is bigger boondoggle then first assumed
truly amazing.. in a bad way.

Do you have anything of substance to add or .....?

 

[sferrin]

this is bigger boondoggle then first assumed
truly amazing.. in a bad way.

Elaborate. (Should be good.)

 

[jsport]

this is bigger boondoggle then first assumed
truly amazing.. in a bad way.

Elaborate. (Should be good.)

you know what is good ? and should be good basic physics. for millionth time capacitors don't match fuels for energy.

 

[bobbymike]

this is bigger boondoggle then first assumed
truly amazing.. in a bad way.

Elaborate. (Should be good.)

for millionth time capacitors don't match fuels for energy.

Isn't that beside the point if you are specifically wanting a "non-fuel" solution?