Moskva burning

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It's beyond my ability but a giff of a missile with an eraser in place of the nosecone, erasing the ship would be good.
 
Today's BBC live update:
10:16

Russia vows more strikes on Kyiv after 'missile attack'​

The Russian defence ministry says it has carried out missile strikes targeting Ukraine's capital, Kyiv, warning that attacks like this will intensify in retaliation for what it called Ukrainian "terror attacks" or "acts of sabotage" in Russia.
Russia says its sea-based cruise missiles struck a factory in the city overnight, which produces air-defence systems and anti-ship missiles.
As a result, the plant's "workshops for the production and repair of long-range and medium-range anti-aircraft missile systems, as well as anti-ship missiles, were destroyed", the ministry added in a statement published on its Telegram channel.
On Thursday, Russia accused Ukraine of sending helicopters across the border to attack several Russian towns.
The BBC is unable to verify these claims from Moscow.
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This might suggest a link with Moskva's sinking. Bluntly, missile strikes because of Moskva sinking after being hit by Ukrainian missiles.
 
Calum Douglas said:
TomS said:
Calum Douglas said:
Its easier to bloody research WW2 than it is to get viable info from this conflict - is the only statement I`m prepared to stand by.
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How easy do you think it was to research WW2 while it was happening? How long did it take to get public confirmation of the number of Japanese ships sunk at Coral Sea?
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Firstly thats not even the comparison I was making, and secondly yes, I think if 83% of the planets population (one current estimate for 2022) had a device capable of recording and live streaming video and audio in 1940, it probably would have been pretty straightforward !
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I'm not sure what you were trying to say then.

But the proliferation of devices and social media is decidedly a mixed bag for research. You can get tons of info, but sorting real from fake is very time consuming. Very little good deep OSINT is done in real time. And the increasing tendency of authoritarian states to build their own "walled garden" Internet subsets is going to make things much harder.
 
Declassified Radio Intercept Sheds Light on Moskva Incident:

Voice A: [1:15:22] Uh, everything's under control. Situation normal.

Voice B: What happened?

Voice A: [getting nervous] Uh, we had a slight weapons malfunction, but uh... everything's perfectly all right now. We're fine. We're all fine here now, thank you. How are you?

Voice B: We're sending a squad up.

Voice A: Uh, uh... negative, negative. We had a reactor leak here now. Give us a few minutes to lock it down. Large leak, very dangerous.

Voice B: Who is this? What's your operating number?

Voice A: Uh...

[intercom fails]

Voice A: [muttering] Boring conversation anyway. LUKE, WE'RE GONNA HAVE COMPANY!
 
Well, Moskva is no longer burning (well, if there are metal fires, they may still be burning) ;)

This brings up an interesting dilemma for the Russian propagandists: do they want to admit that the ship was sunk by an internal explosion*, indicative of either defective weapons or incompetent sailors, or from combat damage? At least the latter could let the propagandists mourn the losses of the Russian Navy's heroic sailors.

As an aside, from the BBC: "A furious ex-MP, Vladimir Bortko, said the sinking of the Moskva was grounds for war" (https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-61114843). Just a side note to Mr Bortko: invading a sovereign country is war. What does he expect from Ukraine?


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(notes added in edit)

* Hah!

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TomS said:
Calum Douglas said:
TomS said:
Calum Douglas said:
Its easier to bloody research WW2 than it is to get viable info from this conflict - is the only statement I`m prepared to stand by.
Click to expand...

How easy do you think it was to research WW2 while it was happening? How long did it take to get public confirmation of the number of Japanese ships sunk at Coral Sea?
Click to expand...

Firstly thats not even the comparison I was making, and secondly yes, I think if 83% of the planets population (one current estimate for 2022) had a device capable of recording and live streaming video and audio in 1940, it probably would have been pretty straightforward !
Click to expand...

I'm not sure what you were trying to say then.

But the proliferation of devices and social media is decidedly a mixed bag for research. You can get tons of info, but sorting real from fake is very time consuming. Very little good deep OSINT is done in real time. And the increasing tendency of authoritarian states to build their own "walled garden" Internet subsets is going to make things much harder.
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Not to mention you got the old civiliam self censure/OPSEC programs in full effect.

Loose Lips Sink Ships

That was aimed at civilians in both WW1 and 2 to keep the Germans from finding out when the convoy’s left.

We do have Ukraine Government saying similarly to STOP POSTING POSITIONS AND MIL STUFF ONLINE, rather loudly and routinely. All to keep the Russias from find out shit.

This can be seen heavily after a Ukraine Soldier post an image of him and his platoon.

The Russias preceded to use that image to drop a MLRS battery worth of rockets on them killing most of said platoon.

The same day Cause the image was geotag to the exact position.

Ukraine government preceded to say stop posting images, russia using them to target stuff to its people.

And since basically all of Ukraine is fully in the Fuck Russia sideways with an Rusty Aim RPG Warhead camp...

Images are not being posted to save Ukrainian lives.

Honestly extreme respectable and...

Hmm... Heartwarming? Meh nice to see that type of shit happening.

So eyeah, civilians following OPSEC rules. A wonder...
 
Firefinder said:
This can be seen heavily after a Ukraine Soldier post an image of him and his platoon.

The Russias preceded to use that image to drop a MLRS battery worth of rockets on them killing most of said platoon.
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Ukraine seems to have a fairly good supply of fairly good tech-types. It should thus be easy enough to whip up videos/photos that soldiers can post that say "Howdy from the front lines" that provide geotagged locations that the Russians can promptly bomb into gravel... those locations being on the *Russian* side of the lines. Or even just blast the bejeebers out of a vacant lot, wasting Russian ammo.

Britain did that sort of thing during WWII... broadcasting false V-1/V-2 crash locations so the Germans would adjust their aim to the Brits liking.
 
Some analysis of the strike on Moskva and the possible tactics with a drone, turning to overall lessons of the war.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a4QETVcSspg&t=706s&ab_channel=ThePrint


1. Small can defeat big.
2. Finding beats flanking (this will be particularly relevant in the anticipated battle for the east where the Russians are predicted to use massed forces).
3. Swarming is better than surging (that is, find weak points and swarm to attack those rather than facing a mass head-on).
 
I'm sure there is no way a couple of brand-new SSMs could have missed a giant RCS target like the Moskva...

Nor the fact the alleged distracting drone that seems to have been impervious to a ship toting at least 4 anti-aircraft systems was probably cueing in the attack too.

Presumable the EW systems were not much use in jamming or spoofing the Neptunes either?

The lessons seem the same as 1982 - don't underestimate SSMs and if you can't destroy them incoming then its a bad day for the ship. Same lesson as 1967 too - tiny Komar takes out a destroyer. That's why tiny navies suddenly started the FAC trend to pack missiles into tiny punches - ok so it failed for Iraq (Lynx/Sea Skua mopped them up) but that was the theory.
Most Western (NATO) nations seem to have ignored coastal SSM batteries as a concept, oddly the Soviets were always heavy users of coastal defence batteries of guns and missiles so it seems odd the Black Sea Fleet seems it can sail around off Odessa without risk.
 
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