Stargazer2006 said:
I hope the Shinshin becomes a reality. It's a cool design. I'm especially fond of the exhausts!

Doesn't "shin" mean "new"? ??? Does that make the ATD-X a "new-new" aircraft?!? :eek:

CG art in previous post is amazing!

Wikipedia states that "shin-shin" translates as "one's mind" in Japanese.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shinshin

Bai Wei's CG model appears in the June 2011 issue of Air Forces Monthly.
 
Matej said:
Grey Havoc said:
Matej, by any chance do you know what the FX (or SX?) designation for that F/A-18 derivative was? And which company carried out that particular study? Mitsubishi again?

Unfortunately I don't know. It is always referred as the "F-18 derivative".

Would this "F-18 derivative" for Japan's F-X requirement have resembled the F-18 Super Hornet International?
 
Well, there's the funding you wanted.

Japan plans to allocate around yen (Y) 7.9 billion ($102.8 million) in the current fiscal year for research to the Mitsubishi Heavy Industries (MHI) ATD-X experimental aircraft programme.

From FlightGlobal.

http://www.flightglobal.com/articles/2011/09/02/361536/japan-may-invest-y7.9bn-in-atd-x-project.html
 
sealordlawrence said:

"in the current fiscal year "

The program is bigger by a factor 10 but for political and financial reasons Japan will only commit to smaller sums each year. Totally reasonaly considering what Japan has been hit with this year. And they aren't building a whole new fighter system anyway (just yet) only a flying demo. It's like a DARPA project.
 
Janes Defence Weekly report this week that the ATD-X will fly in 2016 as a testbed for an indigenous sixth gen fighter ("F-3") with i3 (informed, intelligent, instantaneous) and counter-stealth capabilities. J-20 and T-50 are mentioned as catalysts for this. US $505 million committed up to 2016 with contract to build signed by year end 2011.
 
overscan said:
Janes Defence Weekly report this week that the ATD-X will fly in 2016 as a testbed for an indigenous sixth gen fighter ("F-3") with i3 (informed, intelligent, instantaneous) and counter-stealth capabilities. J-20 and T-50 are mentioned as catalysts for this. US $505 million committed up to 2016 with contract to build signed by year end 2011.

A sixth gen fighter? Interesting. I guess it is logical considering the mounting threat all around the Pac rim.
 
i3 so called 6th gen fighter to be introduced by 2030. ATD-X will be more like pre-test aircraft for advanced systems for i3
 
official ATD-X renderings from TRDI
 

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Are those 2D or 3D thrust vectoring nozzles? The second image shows extensions to the right of both nozzles, but they seem a bit far away to be deflectors.
 
Dragon029 said:
Are those 2D or 3D thrust vectoring nozzles? The second image shows extensions to the right of both nozzles, but they seem a bit far away to be deflectors.

They are 3D Thrust vectoring paddles as seen on the X-31 aircraft. It is more easily noticeable when looking at the top image where the 3 paddles on each engine are visible. That method of achieving TVC probably isn't the best for VLO characteristics but it's irrelevant considering it's merely a technology demonstrator.
 
From the blog of Kosuke Takahashi:

The Japanese Ministry of Defence (MoD) is about to start manufacturing the airframe of the Mitsubishi Advanced Technology Demonstrator – X (ATD-X) fighter known as ‘Shinshin’ “very soon”, Lt. General Hideyuki Yoshioka told me on November 4.
Source:
http://kosuke2009.blogspot.com/2011/11/my-most-recent-stories-for-janes.html
 

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Hi!
Shinshin 3-side view, flying model pictures and Shinshin-kai artistic impressions.
Source:Recent Maru magazine.
 

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Hi! Another image.
Please try! Tail pipe move.
 

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Looking at some of these models, mock-ups an artist impression - I hope they seriously do something about the poor all-round pilot visibility - especially rear view!!!

Regards
Pioneer
 
Pioneer said:
Looking at some of these models, mock-ups an artist impression - I hope they seriously do something about the poor all-round pilot visibility - especially rear view!!!

They won't... They just picked the F-35 instead... ::)
 
Yes JASDF select F-35 as F-4 replacement. And F-3 will be F-15 replacement. ;D
JASDF will get 42 F-35s until 2016.
 

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blackkite said:
Yes JASDF select F-35 as F-4 replacement. And F-3 will be F-15 replacement. ;D

Oh I see... Two fighters will be procured. I thought they had chosen the F-35 as one single replacement aircraft. Sorry about the confusion... :(
 
Pioneer said:
Looking at some of these models, mock-ups an artist impression - I hope they seriously do something about the poor all-round pilot visibility - especially rear view!!!

Regards
Pioneer

Looking at the sides of the nose I am seeing something what looks like a DAS aperture. If that's the case I don't think all-round visibility is that high of a priority.
 
The F-35 program is too far ahead and has too many groups involved for it to be ended - it would take practically all Tier 3 partners cancelling all their orders to end it at this stage, especially with there being about half a dozen more nations looking into buying into the program.
 
Dragon029

I hear you - but I am also hearing that they missing major miles stones and may not be mission capable at all, plus huge cost overruns.
 
It is to be expected since it is the one with the strict STOVL requirement which forces it to deal with a big heavy complicated Lift-fan that imposes considerable structural constraints on the design.
 
Source:
http://forum.keypublishing.com/showthread.php?t=115810
 

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Hi!
Mitsubishi began to assemble Shinshin in 26th of March 2012. It will complete in 2014.
 

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Jesus, with 3 flying prototypes of PAK FA, you would imagine it would not be hard to make the profile somewhat accurate...
 
flanker said:
Jesus, with 3 flying prototypes of PAK FA, you would imagine it would not be hard to make the profile somewhat accurate...
Terribly sorry about it. ;D
I wonder about the accuracy of KFX201's shape.
 

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since this project is now being built, shouldn't it be moved to the aerospace section?
 
helmutkohl said:
since this project is now being built, shouldn't it be moved to the aerospace section?

Japan is going ahead with the project? YES!!!

To be honest, I'm concerned with the size of the aircraft, as it will put a limit on what can be done with the airframe in terms of overall capabilities. As great as two engines would be, at it's projected size according to those slides, it would be more feasible to go with a single engine, leaving more space in the fuselage for fuel or internal weapons carriage. The larger size of course makes a larger radar more feasible. Even with the possibility of having radar equipped UCAVs doing the forward radar detection, a good fighter still needs a proper radar system. IRST should be standard as well, or perhaps EODAS type system since it's shown some capacity to operate much like an IRST.

First I would expand the fuselage to accept advanced derivative F414s. Next, I would build some decent spacing between the engine bays in kind of planform manner akin to the T-50 for fire safety and centerline weapons bay of fuel storage. Considering Japan is all about naval strike (at least historically with the F-1 and F-2), it could be the perfect storage spot for medium sized anti-ship missiles, two in tandem, or perhaps an indigenous long range AAM, or 2 + 2 AMRAAMs (or w/e Japanese equivalent). It would also leave room for a stinger tail for a rear facing radar or other equipment. Also, divergent thrust vector roll control should be more effective in this arrangement (assuming the roll inertia moment isn't made worse by the farther spacing). For external fuel carriage, I think a stealthy + aerodynamic jettisonable fuel pod that attaches in the spacing beneath the weapons bay could be done. In a combat situation it would be jettisoned like normal drop tanks so those weapon bays could unleash their fury, but otherwise would add considerable extra fuel and range. I would expect such a plane to still have "side weapons bays" a la F-22 or F-35 for AIM-9s or AMRAAMs (or perhaps one of each per bay?).

So basically I would go for:

Length: ~55 ft
Radar: APG-81 radar with a larger module array akin to APG-77 in size (or bigger if room in the nose).
Engines: EDE F414s (~26,000 lbs thrust). F414s should be semi-supercruise capable, probably up to M1.2 or 1.3 w/o afterburner.
Fuel capacity: 18,000 lbs + 10,000 lb external "pod"
Loaded weight: 55,000 - 60,000 lbs (for A2A, no external fuel).
 
Its experimental demonstrator, not something for serial production. Think about it as a Japanese Have Blue. It was also too small for any operational use, but this was not the goal.
 
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