MiG-29 Avionics

[wasp850]

Ziggy
Around 1964/65, the air superiority studies that later led to the FX began. In the end, there were three competing companies - North American, Fairchild Hiller, McDonnell Douglas. In December 1969, the McDonnell Douglas Model 199B was selected as the winner. The name F-15 was chosen for all candidates because the FX program's main competitor was the naval F-14 Tomcat. So the Air Force chose a number greater than 14. F-14+1. According to sources familiar to me, the Soviets knew very well what was going on in the FX program, and the FX program had a direct impact on the new generation of their aircraft.

The designation YF-15 was not used, the first aircraft was already an F-15.

The photo shows items and folders from McAir for their F-15. From North American F-15, their graphic logos are here in the thread.

 

[overscan (PaulMM)]

I'll move this discussion to its own thread as its far away from avionics now.

 

[ZIGGY-2014]

There's a lot of opinion in that account, which is 100% "TsAGI invented everything and I love Mikoyan cos they listen to me", like most of GS Bushgens writings.

Its untrue that the USSR knew nothing about the Eagle's capabilities until 1973. Even before contract award in 1969, there were articles on the F-15. Broad parameters like Mach 2.5 top speed and a requirement for better agility were public. Various magazines posted artist's impressions and articles before and after contract award. That's leaving to one side any potential espionage.

According to Sukhoi's account, which is supported by the timeline, in 1971 or so, TsAGI were indeed looking at trapezoidal wings with leading edge flaps and flaps. They were not looking at LERX, or an integral layout.

After the 1971 design conference, when Bushgens said the integral design was not recommended, TsAGI went away and started testing their existing variable camber wing with root extensions, and also wind tunnel testing the integral layout.

By late 1972/1973, working with Mikoyan, TsAGI had validated the LERX and integral layout as the best solution, but paired with the trapezoidal variable camber wing instead of the ogival wing of the T-10. Mikoyan adopted TsAGI's recommended configuration.

The MiG-29 prototype configuration was indeed very trouble free, nobody can deny that.

If you read the Bedretdinov book, with the repeated changes in chief designer and other uncertainties, the T-10 configuration was still being debated and refined when the T-10 prototype construction started, and it was certainly an immature design with some major flaws. Sukhoi had looked at the trapezoidal wing as an option. Not all Sukhoi engineers think the T-10 was irredeemable, but it suited the newly installed Mikhail Simonov to "sweep clean" with his redesign.

That is to say, this article is the TsAGI/Mikoyan position. The Su-27 book by Sukhoi designers presents the Sukhoi position. Generally, the Sukhoi book has the better sources listed. Mikoyan and TsAGI like to start the story in 1973, and gloss over the earlier stage.

I never said the Soviet Union did not know anything about the F-15'S existence. It is likely they knew the moment Mcdonnell Douglas was awarded contract.

However, you stated that the VVS specifically wanted an "anti- F-15" in 1970 before the jet had ever been produced and flown for the first time. Why S? ? makes zero se

 

[wasp850]

I never said the Soviet Union did not know anything about the F-15'S existence. It is likely they knew the moment Mcdonnell Douglas was awarded contract.

However, you stated that the VVS specifically wanted an "anti- F-15" in 1970 before the jet had ever been produced and flown for the first time. Why S? ? makes zero se

The Soviets knew about the FX competition and probably knew all three proposals in detail

 

[overscan (PaulMM)]

I never said the Soviet Union did not know anything about the F-15'S existence. It is likely they knew the moment Mcdonnell Douglas was awarded contract.

However, you stated that the VVS specifically wanted an "anti- F-15" in 1970 before the jet had ever been produced and flown for the first time. Why S? ? makes zero se

I literally don't understand what your problem is with the term 'anti-F-15'. It only means ' a counter to the F-15'. The USSR knew the USA was designing a new fighter that would completely outclass all their existing fighters and knew that it was designated F-15 in 1969.Therefore, they initiated a program to build a fighter that would match or beat the F-15 as soon as a contract was awarded. Why would they wait until it flew before starting their program? They were already several years behind on development.

 

[overscan (PaulMM)]

The Soviets knew about the FX competition and probably knew all three proposals in detail

It is likely the GRU did and this might have informed the requirement, however Sukhoi rarely got anything from them, so relied on its own department compiling information from public sources like Aviation Week, AIAA journals etc for research purposes.