MiG-29 Avionics

[ZIGGY-2014]

Thank you I was truly not aware that the MiG-29AS radar had been upgraded to such specification.

I believe it’s reasonable to think the “S” could be for Slovakia.

Yes, but It is only reasonable if one does not take the time to truly understand the history & design of the aircraft as a whole.

As the Ukrainians have correctly reported, the MiG-29s that were handed over by the Russian Federation to clean up debt coming out of the total economic collapse of the Soviet Union. This means the that the MiG-29S were not originally produced as specific export but to the Soviet/Russian Federation standard that was pulled from Russian Air Force inventory. Therefore, S will not represent the country of Slovakia.

The Russian Federation had promised MiG-29S which were the 9-12S & 9-13S. They were the most advanced MiG-29 at the time (just as the Ukrainians correctly point out) & last fighters ever produced by the Soviet Union.

However, Russian Federation Export law will not allow the transfer of the N019M Topaz with full domestic capabilities. The Mig-29 in batch 2 that were approved for Slovakian transfer, which were 9-12S base models would be handed over without the Topaz and instead Rubin until the export approved N019ME can be serial produced and provided.

This is why they were initially referred/reported as Mig-29A by the Slovaks (Topaz is the principal upgrade). However, they were not truly 9-12A either, since they still had all the hallmarks & lesser upgrades of 9-12S such as the additional drop tank capability, as this Polish open-source reports, a dedicated site to cataloguing historical paint schemes of the MiG-29 of both domestic & export use.

"Second batch of MiGs are from Russian air force inventory as debts payment. It's not version 9-12A!"

Colours of the MiG-29. Mikoyan & Gurevich MiG-29 camouflage and painting schemes. European countries, Russia, Asia. MiG-29, MiG-29UB, MiG-29SMT, MiG-29K/KUB, MiG-35

I agree, those are modifications that belong to product index 9-12S. That also means that these special "9-12A" had come with the SOS-3M-3 limiter giving it an increase from 26° degrees of instantaneous angle of attack to 28° degrees, like that which was also implemented in the 9-13S, as well as the SD, SM, SMT, SMT-2 etc.


Note how they also report the MiG-29A in question had come from Russian Air Force inventory as well not from MiG-MAPO.

When the Russian Federation did carry out the upgrade to the Topaz in the early 2000s alongside the Letecké Opravovne Trenčín A.S (Translated: Trenčín Aircraft Repair A.S) the S was added to the designation to signify upgrade completion & reflect the capability to the S standard provided by the renamed MiG RSK of the Russian Federation.

Lastly, to avoid any potential misinterpretation, A.S in the Slovakian company Letecké Opravovne Trenčín A.S, is akciová spoločnosť. Which simply means Joint-stock company.

The MiG 29AS does not laughably mean MiG-29 Joint Stock company.

Almost everywhere online refers only to NATO and cockpit upgrades, and even after your informed me I cannot find any other authoritative sources besides the one you mention mentioning the radar.

NATO integration as a capability is predominately highlighted because it involves the most important topic that remains a top story in the global news cycle as it will determine the entire fate and destiny of the Ukrainian people as we know it: Ukraine's potential membership in the NATO alliance.

You likely just heard of the MiG-29AS existence because you only ever mention in its transfer to Ukraine and the first sources on any search engines are news reports regarding it.

Now the reason the R-27ER & the N019M Topaz are not mentioned these days or in what you are able to find is simple, the capabilities are irrelevant & they are not worth mentioning.

The R-27ER & the N019M Topaz (both products of the Soviet Union) are now operationally obsolete in modern aerial combat & this war has proven it. The R-27ET however, still remains highly combat effective for the foreseeable future. Especially as advancements in passive IR/UV optical sensors continue to improve at an alarming rate. Ukraine has stopped any boasting of their own domestically produced R-27ER and rather highlights it now as the very reason they need the F-16 and the Aim-120. SARH missiles are obsolete. There is no reason to mention them. No amount of R-27R & ER will give Ukraine peer to peer parity with the Russian Federation's advanced passive & active capabilities in the domain of combat aviation.

I am sorry but in your attached pictures I still do not see anything that convinces me the N-019 does not use what could be called a gimbal.

The attached pictures were not intended to convince you of anything. They are provided to show others that the actual Cambridge, Meriam Webster, Collins definitions of the word "gimbal" vs the definition you claim to operate under are not remotely related. That using names as certification, not their real definitions to co-sign for a flawed logic is not acceptable.

from Cambridge to Merriam Webster, to Collins and even howstuffworks.com all show that gimbal is a versatile word to describe something on a pivot. Something that rotates on an axis for any purpose or reason driven by any force.

Without acknowledgment that the very foundation of what you know about these radars may be flawed. You only limit yourself from understanding the aircraft you claim to love & the ability to identify the technologies within. This principle applies to all things btw.

This horse is dead. Please move on from it.

 

[F-2]

Where did you glean that from? It doesn't accord with what I've read.

Found the memo!

Spooks: Ours And Theirs

Here is what we do or like to do: And what follows below is how it is done by a superpower: He was reportedly the most succe...

trishul-trident.blogspot.com

 

[overscan (PaulMM)]

That memo is for a specific info dump given in 1980, it doesn't give the complete picture.

The most extensive documentation was on Sapfir-23 and Zaslon because he had the most access to them, but he also compromised the N019, N001 and others.

 

[Aeria Gloria]

The maximum azimuth is used during STT track. During search, the maximum azimuth is 65 degrees. If you lock someone at edge of gimbal limit in search in left or right direction, you could turn an additional 5 degrees with STT before the lock is dropped
EDIT: spelling error fixed

I’m beginning to realize I was initially correct. The NO-19 radar does do +/-70 degrees in azimuth. The pages from combat employment manual that mention 65 degrees are all for search modes, not track.

I thought it odd that so much technical literature, The PowerPoint that Overscan translated, the weapon complex manual, 3rd party sources all agreed on 70 degree azimuth limits, but let myself trust the combat employment manual over those without realizing the limits for track mode are in a different page.

 

[LukaszK]

I’m beginning to realize I was initially correct. The NO-19 radar does do +/-70 degrees in azimuth. The pages from combat employment manual that mention 65 degrees are all for search modes, not track.

I thought it odd that so much technical literature, The PowerPoint that Overscan translated, the weapon complex manual, 3rd party sources all agreed on 70 degree azimuth limits, but let myself trust the combat employment manual over those without realizing the limits for track mode are in a different page.

Just one question. The second picture IMG_9558 seems to be picture from some Polish language instruction for MIG. Do you have scan of this document? Is it possible to share it ?

 

[Aeria Gloria]

Just one question. The second picture IMG_9558 seems to be picture from some Polish language instruction for MIG. Do you have scan of this document? Is it possible to share it ?

It is a maintenance document that details expected specifications of different systems and allowable tolerance before needing overhaul. Let me see what I can do, I’ll ask the person who shared it with me.

I also posted a page from it on the last page showing the radar is required to be accurate within 15’ (minutes). I didn’t realize but same information is in weapon complex 9.12B manual

 

[overscan (PaulMM)]

I’m beginning to realize I was initially correct. The NO-19 radar does do +/-70 degrees in azimuth. The pages from combat employment manual that mention 65 degrees are all for search modes, not track.

I thought it odd that so much technical literature, The PowerPoint that Overscan translated, the weapon complex manual, 3rd party sources all agreed on 70 degree azimuth limits, but let myself trust the combat employment manual over those without realizing the limits for track mode are in a different page.

Its N019 not NO-19.

I haven't revisited the documents my recollection is +-70° azimuth,+60°/-40° elevation is the physical limit of the antenna, with the lower values (+-65° azimuth, + 56°/-36 ° elevation) are the maximum selectable values.

 

[Aeria Gloria]

Its N019 not NO-19.

I haven't revisited the documents my recollection is +-70° azimuth,+60°/-40° elevation is the physical limit of the antenna, with the lower values (+-65° azimuth, + 56°/-36 ° elevation) are the maximum selectable values.

Noted, and yes that would seem to be the case. I see -45 degrees thrown around also, but -40 degrees seems to be the correct value for negative elevation in track, and as up said -36 for search mode as needed by delta H and stabilization.

 

[ZIGGY-2014]

I’m beginning to realize I was initially correct. The NO-19 radar does do +/-70 degrees in azimuth.

I want you to be correct, I truly do.

But unfortunately, here you have taken a long-established primary source, the combat employment manual of the Mig-29 (9-12), the first production line of the fighter and placed around it several pages taken from secondary independent commercial publications that have no authority or relation to the designer, manufacturer or the Air Armies of the VVS & the Aerospace Forces of the Russian Federation.

The pages from combat employment manual that mention 65 degrees are all for search modes, not track.

This is false. Just read the material..
The manual states Automatic Tracking is limited to 65 degrees.


"7. The angular dimensions of the automatic tracking zone are ±65° in azimuth and from +56° to -36° in tilt (Fig. 7).


“FIG. 7. ANGULAR DIMENSIONS OF THE AUTO-FOLLOWING ZONE"






"FIG. 5. LIMITS OF DISPLACEMENT OF THE VIEWING AREA RELATIVELY TO THE LONGITUDINAL AXIS OF THE ANTENNA"


The radar is severely limited technologically. In particular, extremely poor boresight performance.

So limited in fact, that the radar is incapable of VIEWING, SEARCHING & TRACKING its full azimuth & must the divide 130 degrees into three zones.
Within each viewing zone is a search & track SCAN SECTOR where the mechanical drive system rotates the beam within. The (3) viewing zones are exclusively operated by analog switch on Control Panel PSR-31. They are not engaging automatically & they do not track into the next. The Ts100 has no capability over the analog N019 & N001 azimuth viewing.

"The pilot controls the position of the viewing zone in azimuth and elevation. In azimuth, the zone is discretely shifted to the extreme left or right position using the ZONE switch on the radar control panel, providing viewing of space within +65° relative to the longitudinal axis of the fighter (Fig. 4)."

"FIG. 4. DISPLACEMENT OF THE VIEWING ZONE IN AZIMUTH RELATIVELY TO THE LONGITUDINAL AXIS OF THE AIRCRAFT WHEN CHANGING THE POSITION OF THE "ZONE" SWITCH (display of the azimuth size of the zone on the HUD screen)"

You fail to understand the difference between viewing zones and scan sectors. The center VIEWING ZONE is observed at 70 degrees while search & track has remained at 65 degrees within. The left zone & right zone are 65 degrees, and ALL scan sectors remain 65 degrees. Even the Ukrainian source reflects this.