Luftwaffe: Secret Designs of the Third Reich

[novum]

The Me 309 Zw is two Me 309 fuselages joined together. The Me 609 is the Me 262. I found a number of references to documents about the Me 609 and on retrieving them was surprised to discover that they all related to the Me 262 (see attached examples) and had nothing to do with the twin-fuselage Me 309. I asked Dan Johnson about it and he pointed me to Willy Messerschmitt - Pioneer of Aviation Design by Erbert, Kaiser and Peters which, on p296, describes the Me 609 as "cover designation for test-ready Me 262s". The evidence certainly backs up that description.

Hi newsdeskdan,

can you tell me in which archive you found these ME 609 documents? Its an interesting fact, that the ME 609 is not two ME 309 fuselages joined together, that you read so often off in corresponding books. I just bought your book, great work!

Kind regards,
Manuel

 

[newsdeskdan]

Hi newsdeskdan,

can you tell me in which archive you found these ME 609 documents? Its an interesting fact, that the ME 609 is not two ME 309 fuselages joined together, that you read so often off in corresponding books. I just bought your book, great work!

Kind regards,
Manuel

There's actually no shortage of material on the Me 609, which makes it all the more surprising that it's been misidentified for so long. I'm sure you're aware of the ADRC/T-2 microfilm reels at NASM? Well, there are Me 609 files at ADRC/T-2 2601/684, 2494/342, 2639/455, 2484/272, 2346/456 and 2630/738.

 

[novum]

There's actually no shortage of material on the Me 609, which makes it all the more surprising that it's been misidentified for so long. I'm sure you're aware of the ADRC/T-2 microfilm reels at NASM? Well, there are Me 609 files at ADRC/T-2 2601/684, 2494/342, 2639/455, 2484/272, 2346/456 and 2630/738.

Hi Dan,

thanks a lot for this information. I really appreciate. I sent you a private message on that topic.

Best,
Manuel

 

[novum]

The Me 309 Zw is two Me 309 fuselages joined together. The Me 609 is the Me 262. I found a number of references to documents about the Me 609 and on retrieving them was surprised to discover that they all related to the Me 262 (see attached examples) and had nothing to do with the twin-fuselage Me 309. I asked Dan Johnson about it and he pointed me to Willy Messerschmitt - Pioneer of Aviation Design by Erbert, Kaiser and Peters which, on p296, describes the Me 609 as "cover designation for test-ready Me 262s". The evidence certainly backs up that description.

Hi Dan,

on page 115 you implemented the following ME 609 "Übersichtsschema":



do you have a reference, in which reel and frame you found that one? I could not locate this one in:
Reel 2346 frame 456
Reel 2494 frame 342
Reel 2484 frame 272
Reel 2630 frame 738
Reel 2497 frame 237
Reel 2601 frame 684
Reel 2639 frame 455

 

[newsdeskdan]

Hi Dan,

on page 115 you implemented the following ME 609 "Übersichtsschema":

View attachment 736776

do you have a reference, in which reel and frame you found that one? I could not locate this one in:
Reel 2346 frame 456
Reel 2494 frame 342
Reel 2484 frame 272
Reel 2630 frame 738
Reel 2497 frame 237
Reel 2601 frame 684
Reel 2639 frame 455

That particular one can be found within the file that's at 3595/308. It's the 14th sheet of that document.

Given the surprisingly high number of documents which clearly show that the Me 609 was the Me 262, it's fairly remarkable that anyone would ever think the Me 609 consisted of two Me 309 fuselages joined together.

 

[novum]

That particular one can be found within the file that's at 3595/308. It's the 14th sheet of that document.

Given the surprisingly high number of documents which clearly show that the Me 609 was the Me 262, it's fairly remarkable that anyone would ever think the Me 609 consisted of two Me 309 fuselages joined together.

Dan,

thank you very much for your help. I really appreciate.

Best,
Manuel

 

[newsdeskdan]

My original scan of that frame looks like this:

 

[novum]

My original scan of that frame looks like this:

View attachment 736925

Dan,

again, thank you very much. Very interesting sketch.

Best regards,
Manuel

 

[Temistocle]

Sorry for the (a little bit) off topic question, but which is the relation between the ADRC/T-2 documents and the SOVA Captured German Aeronautical Documents?
Are the latter a subset of the ADRC/T2 or a totally different matter?
I never entered in an American archive... sigh...
Thanks

 

[newsdeskdan]

Sorry for the (a little bit) off topic question, but which is the relation between the ADRC/T-2 documents and the SOVA Captured German Aeronautical Documents?
Are the latter a subset of the ADRC/T2 or a totally different matter?
I never entered in an American archive... sigh...
Thanks

You mean the CGD series? The ADRC/T-2 documents are microfilmed original German documents. The series consists of maybe 2000 rolls of microfilm, each with around 1000 frames on it. 1 frame = 1 sheet of a document. So a 10-page document is in theory 10 frames (in practice, documents often have a frame at the beginning with the reference number on it, e.g. REEL 1234 FRAME 123 and a title card with brief details of what the following document is, plus there are empty frames around each document.
Even so, there's probably at least 1.5 million pages of captured German aviation industry WW2 documents in the ADRC/T-2 series.

The CGD series is American military translations of a handful of captured German technical documents, most (if not all) of which can be found in their original German form within the ADRC/T-2 series.

 

[Temistocle]

You mean the CGD series? The ADRC/T-2 documents are microfilmed original German documents. The series consists of maybe 2000 rolls of microfilm, each with around 1000 frames on it. 1 frame = 1 sheet of a document. So a 10-page document is in theory 10 frames (in practice, documents often have a frame at the beginning with the reference number on it, e.g. REEL 1234 FRAME 123 and a title card with brief details of what the following document is, plus there are empty frames around each document.
Even so, there's probably at least 1.5 million pages of captured German aviation industry WW2 documents in the ADRC/T-2 series.

The CGD series is American military translations of a handful of captured German technical documents, most (if not all) of which can be found in their original German form within the ADRC/T-2 series.

Thank you for your reply: yes, I was talking abut the CGDs.
It is a pity that I live on the other side of the Atalantic Ocean...