Luftwaffe: Secret Designs of the Third Reich

[newsdeskdan]

Is there any indication in the P222 drawings of where the port exhaust would have gone? And is there any data on the take off weight and empty weight of this design?

It's unclear. I've attached the highest res version of the drawings I have. No weight data either I'm afraid.

 

[sienar]

Thank you!

Both drawings show an intake in the front view right where the exhaust is which is likely for cooling the port exhaust. A shame that there is no detail about where that exhaust goes though. Dumping it into the radiator exit would make a lot of sense....

The 9-12 must have a Jumo engine as the supercharger is on the right. Both designs look like they would be really under-powered though.

 

[sgeorges4]

I've bought it,and it's a really nice book for me with a lot of unknow document. ;D

 

[gatoraptor]

Has anyone seen it for sale in the U.S. as of yet? I haven't...

 

[steelpillow]

Just turned up in my local newsagent, here in the UK. WH Smith may have been voted the worst high street retailer in the UK but they are the BEST newsagent anywhere near me.

Dan, so many nuggets of pure gold, I hardly know where to start - canards, shark's fins, twin fuselages, B&V asymmetric flying boats, the list of never-before-revealed wonders is truly - well, I am lost for words so, er - beyond words.

My absolute solid platinum favourite has to be the DVL outboard-tail prone-pilot tandem-fuselage jet fighter. I would never, ever have believed it if it was not from our own Newsdesk Dan doing his legendary thing with original documents and drawings. I suspect that it may actually be a two-stage plane rather than a single tandem design, as the intermediate "tail" makes no aerodynamic sense while the two are conjoined. The final sketch also has nose and tail fairings dotted in, though whether fixed or jettisonable is not clear. The outboard tail might look a touch small when the front half is flying alone, but wind tunnel work had shown that it was more effective than a conventional one so did not need to be so large. The B&V ones were not as small because they were brought forward on shorter booms instead - especially the P 215 - which reduced their efficiency back to normal.
By the way, Pohlmann's story of the B&V aircraft works had more to say about this line of projects than his colleagues did, but he too is silent on whose idea it was.

Keep that next one coming!

 

[newsdeskdan]

Has anyone seen it for sale in the U.S. as of yet? I haven't...

I'm told there is usually a six week lag, so expect to see it on sale towards the end of June/early July.

 

[gatoraptor]

Has anyone seen it for sale in the U.S. as of yet? I haven't...

I'm told there is usually a six week lag, so expect to see it on sale towards the end of June/early July.

We can fly cargo across the Atlantic in 8 hours or less, and even cargo ships can make the journey in less than a week, so it always puzzles me why British publications always take so long to make it here to the colonies. I think that "slow boat" doesn't go to China, it comes here!

 

[steelpillow]

I think that "slow boat" doesn't go to China, it comes here!

It goes to China first.

 

[newsdeskdan]

Has anyone seen it for sale in the U.S. as of yet? I haven't...

I'm told there is usually a six week lag, so expect to see it on sale towards the end of June/early July.

We can fly cargo across the Atlantic in 8 hours or less, and even cargo ships can make the journey in less than a week, so it always puzzles me why British publications always take so long to make it here to the colonies. I think that "slow boat" doesn't go to China, it comes here!

You could always order it direct from classicmagazines.co.uk although this apparently adds £4.45 to the price, making the overall price a not inconsiderable $15.20 (£11.44).

 

[newsdeskdan]

Just turned up in my local newsagent, here in the UK. WH Smith may have been voted the worst high street retailer in the UK but they are the BEST newsagent anywhere near me.

Dan, so many nuggets of pure gold, I hardly know where to start - canards, shark's fins, twin fuselages, B&V asymmetric flying boats, the list of never-before-revealed wonders is truly - well, I am lost for words so, er - beyond words.

My absolute solid platinum favourite has to be the DVL outboard-tail prone-pilot tandem-fuselage jet fighter. I would never, ever have believed it if it was not from our own Newsdesk Dan doing his legendary thing with original documents and drawings. I suspect that it may actually be a two-stage plane rather than a single tandem design, as the intermediate "tail" makes no aerodynamic sense while the two are conjoined. The final sketch also has nose and tail fairings dotted in, though whether fixed or jettisonable is not clear. The outboard tail might look a touch small when the front half is flying alone, but wind tunnel work had shown that it was more effective than a conventional one so did not need to be so large. The B&V ones were not as small because they were brought forward on shorter booms instead - especially the P 215 - which reduced their efficiency back to normal.
By the way, Pohlmann's story of the B&V aircraft works had more to say about this line of projects than his colleagues did, but he too is silent on whose idea it was.

Keep that next one coming!

I also shop regularly at WHSmith - can't see what the problem is. There's a lot of diverse material in Luftwaffe: Secret Designs and it worries me that such a broad range might put people off. Depending on how this one does I'll either go back to a more focused approach for the next one or put out a second volume of oddities.

UPDATE: I received this 3D printed model of one of the newly discovered aircraft designs featured in Luftwaffe: Secret Designs this morning (see attached - 1/144 scale Arado 'Dreieck'). Modelled by contributing artist and forum member Hamzalippischh and produced by Shapeways in the US.

 

[gatoraptor]

UPDATE: I received this 3D printed model of one of the newly discovered aircraft designs featured in Luftwaffe: Secret Designs this morning (see attached - 1/144 scale Arado 'Dreieck'). Modelled by contributing artist and forum member Hamzalippischh and produced by Shapeways in the US.

Or, in other words, who really designed the A-12? Maybe Frito-Lay got the idea for Doritos from the Germans.

 

[newsdeskdan]

UPDATE: I received this 3D printed model of one of the newly discovered aircraft designs featured in Luftwaffe: Secret Designs this morning (see attached - 1/144 scale Arado 'Dreieck'). Modelled by contributing artist and forum member Hamzalippischh and produced by Shapeways in the US.

Or, in other words, who really designed the A-12? Maybe Frito-Lay got the idea for Doritos from the Germans.

It does seem to be a remarkably similar shape to the A-12 (albeit with a fin and protruding engine housings), but not much like a Dorito, sadly. I think Frito-Lay are more likely to have got the idea from the Hortens' H X or Lippisch's DM-3.

 

[Wurger]

Just got mine here in Europe`s westernmost corner! It is absolutelly packed with excelent stuff for the Luftwaffe buffs. I would start to review the preface, and asking Dan to please ID the quad (20mm MG151?) tail turret on the top, next to the Fw 191 cabin view. To which project did it belong to? Also, on the left bottom page, I didn`t knew that the Ta 254A-1 projected nightfighter had a hood, on a B-stand, I presume facing rearwards.

 

[newsdeskdan]

Just got mine here in Europe`s westernmost corner! It is absolutelly packed with excelent stuff for the Luftwaffe buffs. I would start to review the preface, and asking Dan to please ID the quad (20mm MG151?) tail turret on the top, next to the Fw 191 cabin view. To which project did it belong to? Also, on the left bottom page, I didn`t knew that the Ta 254A-1 projected nightfighter had a hood, on a B-stand, I presume facing rearwards.

The Focke-Wulf tail turret is dated November 21, 1942, but was from a bundle of design papers, rather than being included in a particular report so the aircraft it was intended for is unknown to me. Yes, there was apparently a proposal to include a rear-facing turret on the Ta 254 A-1 and the drawing shows profiles and weights for a DL131/1 (solid line, 340.2kg), DL15/131 (double-dotted line, 302.5kg) and WL131 (single-dotted line, 283kg).

The drawings around the edge of the preface show (clockwise from the Me 609 in the top left corner), Heinkel P 1079 (otherwise unknown version), Focke-Wulf Ta 153 wing detail design, Focke-Wulf tail turret, Fw 191 cabin brochure drawing, Dornier Do 335 wind tunnel model with pointed nose, DFS Robbe test flight photos, BMW 028 turboprop, Blohm & Voss BV 141 B cabin layouts, AVA 'large aeroplane' designs, Arado Ar 240 V1 WNr. 0001 weights, Arado Ar 65 aerodynamics, Focke-Wulf Ta 254 A-1 turrets, Junkers EF 100 breakaway zones, Junkers Ju 85 mock-up, Messerschmitt Enzian E1 scale plan, Messerschmitt Me 210 wind tunnel model and Me 209 wing test model and Messerschmitt Me 328 flight test photos.

 

[Wurger]

Dan, is it possible to have the tail turret reproduced here? Does that design paper bundle included more armament schemes?

 

[newsdeskdan]

Dan, is it possible to have the tail turret reproduced here? Does that design paper bundle included more armament schemes?

Sure, but that's all there is I'm afraid.

 

[richard B]

Hello!

The book is still unavailable in France :

 

[newsdeskdan]

Hello!

The book is still unavailable in France :

I'll make enquiries about the retail situation in France on Monday.

UPDATE: I'm told we're in touch with Amazon to try and get the issue of sales via Amazon.fr resolved. Apparently it's not quite as simple as just ticking a box in the management console.

 

[Zizi6785]

It was fast

Lonewulf Models:
"Latest 1/72 conversion set straight out of the mould, fits like a dream. Its the Junkers Canard wings for the Messerschmitt Me 163. Junkers wind tunnel tested these wings to see if it could improve the control of the Me 163. They weren't the first, Lippisch had experimented with the idea of retractable canards. Will be on e-bay during the week."

 

[moin1900]

Received my copy. Excellent work. Great articles. Very nice artwork. Lots of drawings of unknown and very unusal projects. And lots of descriptions of very unknown projects, like in the article about the Henschel projects. A must have for everyone who is interested in the history of the german aircraft designs during WW2.

 

[sgeorges4]

On Shapeways: https://www.shapeways.com/product/48JJ6DRPW/1-144-messerschmitt-schnellstflugzeug?optionId=65715327

 

[gatoraptor]

Finally got a copy of this in the U.S., though as usual for this series, it was not easy, as the local outlets in the Atlanta area still don't carry it.

But I had an engagement in Guntersville, Alabama, and while there drove an hour north to Huntsville, a city with (still) a significant German presence. I went mainly to eat at a good German restaurant, but while there I popped into a Barnes & Noble bookstore, and, voila! They had a bunch of copies.

I had bought a previous volume in this series at a bookstore in Dayton, Ohio, so maybe the rule is: if you can't find it in your hometown bookstore, go to a place with either a large German presence or a large aviation one!

Oh, and the publication is fabulous. This series really puts the "book" in "bookazine"!

 

[Richard N]

I went by my local Barnes and Noble in Fort Worth, Texas and found that they had significantly cut back on their UK magazine selections and I guess that may come down to the discretion of the local managers and I haven't found LSDotTR there. I've gone completely digital for all of my UK publications with the advantages of lower price, painless instant acquisition, and always knowing I can find any part of my digital library on any of my computers or tablets.

I got my digital edition of LSDotTR from Pocketmags within seconds of finding it on their site. They have holiday sales every few months with prices much less than paper and a couple of times a year have $.99 back issue sales for magazines that might have been $10 and a 30 mile drive for me for the paper version.

Digital is the future for long out of print and vary rare books. MMP just releasing the great B-24 book "Consolidated Mess" in a Kindle Digital Edition is a great example. It was out for a short time for about $50 and prices for it from sites like ABE Books and Amazon are now in the thousands of dollars. The Kindle release is $19! I have the original book and bought the Kindle version and compared them and the Kindle version is complete as the original. A pdf of "System 37 Viggen" was recently made available on SP and that is an unobtainium book in print form and another advantage of the pdf form over paper is that it is copy and pastable text so you can copy the text in the original Swedish and past it into Google Translate for your native language.

My last relocation move (paid for by a large defense contractor) placed my 20,000 lbs of stuff at my current location. A significant portion of that weight and volume was books and magazines. I truly appreciate the characteristic of digital publications that they have no physical size or weight and cannot be harmed by bugs or climate that are the bane of paper books.

I imagine that if our conciosnesses were uploaded to a virtual existance, we would have our digital books to read whereas our physical books would require the burden of scanning and connection to an appropriate interface by someone or something left in the physical world.

 

[overscan (PaulMM)]

Agreed. Most "bookazines" are pretty lightweight in terms of research and content - Dan's publications are in a whole different league and very inspiring. I have a desire to do a similar bookazine on a subject of great interest to me.

 

[newsdeskdan]

Hello!

The book is still unavailable in France :

Sorry for the delay - the bookazine should now be available to buy in France direct from Amazon.fr.

 

[newsdeskdan]

Agreed. Most "bookazines" are pretty lightweight in terms of research and content - Dan's publications are in a whole different league and very inspiring. I have a desire to do a similar bookazine on a subject of great interest to me.

Thanks - I've found bookazines to be an excellent way of getting my work published in a quality format which is relatively inexpensive for people to buy. I agree that most bookazines are light reads covering fairly familiar territory, and I've bought plenty like that which I've enjoyed, but I think there is also a place for bookazines which offer content based on new research.

 

[steelpillow]

The main problem with the Mortons bookazines is the very thin covers, no different from the main pages. By contrast the "Aeroplane Special" series have a thicker grade paper, almost a thin card, for the covers and they are much more durable.
Would Mortons consider producing a protective dust cover or binder, ideally transparent? I'd certainly buy four of them.

 

[newsdeskdan]

The main problem with the Mortons bookazines is the very thin covers, no different from the main pages. By contrast the "Aeroplane Special" series have a thicker grade paper, almost a thin card, for the covers and they are much more durable.
Would Mortons consider producing a protective dust cover or binder, ideally transparent? I'd certainly buy four of them.

I'm told that there are no plans for a dust cover or binder. In terms of the cover, apparently it would be possible to make the covers thicker if the content was knocked down to 100 pages, rather than 132, or the price was increased above £6.99 (same price for the last four years). I understand the desire for a thicker cover but I would rather keep the extra space for content if I can.

 

[Wurger]

I would rather keep the extra space for content if I can.

I completely agree! Dan, do you have an idea of what your next bookazine on Luftwaffe projects will be?

 

[steelpillow]

I would rather keep the extra space for content if I can.

I completely agree!

Yes indeed. Personally I'd be happy to pay an extra quid or so for a thicker cover, but I can understand you folks wanting to keep the price as low as possible.

 

[newsdeskdan]

I would rather keep the extra space for content if I can.

I completely agree! Dan, do you have an idea of what your next bookazine on Luftwaffe projects will be?

Another selection of completely unknown designs and not-very-well-known designs upon which I think I can shed a little more light.

 

[Wurger]

Dan, do you have enough stuff to produce an edition on "secret" subsystems, e.g. aircraft engines and armament?

 

[newsdeskdan]

Dan, do you have enough stuff to produce an edition on "secret" subsystems, e.g. aircraft engines and armament?

Engines - more than enough, too much if anything, although I'm not sure what the wider level of interest on that would be. Armament - possibly, although I haven't specifically sought out unusual or 'secret' weapons systems. Missiles and glide bombs would probably also be possible. Again, not sure how well received that would be. However, I've more than enough aircraft projects to report on in the meantime.

 

[Zizi6785]

It received after the Deadline

 

[steelpillow]

Another selection of completely unknown designs and not-very-well-known designs upon which I think I can shed a little more light.

Luftwaffe: Secret Projects of the Third Reich?

 

[newsdeskdan]

Another selection of completely unknown designs and not-very-well-known designs upon which I think I can shed a little more light.

Luftwaffe: Secret Projects of the Third Reich?

That takes it a little close to the Schick/Herwig books, not to mention Griehl's US books. I'll think of something.

 

[Wurger]

You could always put the experimental or projected engines and armament within the aircraft content. I wonder if you could publish more on that Arado aircraft turret report of yours... B)

 

[newsdeskdan]

You could always put the experimental or projected engines and armament within the aircraft content. I wonder if you could publish more on that Arado aircraft turret report of yours... B)

There are a few missiles in Luftwaffe: Secret Designs and I will probably include at least one potentially hugely destructive, but also rather zany, air-to-air weapon that I don't think has ever been detailed before in the next one. I might well include a bit more of the Arado turrets report. Other items on the list of potential subjects include what DFS Eber really looked like, Heinkel's 'zombie' bomber and a previously unknown, and radical, version of the Ta 152.

 

[gatoraptor]

I suppose there weren't enough designs of helicopters and other rotorcraft to fill up an entire issue?

 

[newsdeskdan]

I suppose there weren't enough designs of helicopters and other rotorcraft to fill up an entire issue?

There were, and that might be one for the future.