LTV/Vought V-505 and V-507 Navy fighters to VFX requirement

[Bill S]

Greetings All -

From the Vought Archives, V507-22. The drawing in the report did not have the top view

Enjoy the Day! Mark

Look at reply #13 of this Subject Mark.

 

[circle-5]

Here's an aircraft carrier spotting model from Vought. I don't know what type it represents, but maybe one of you graphics wizards can unfold the wings, stabs and radome which might help visualize the overall shape.

I'm impressed by the wing fold being so close to the root, which makes the airframe fit in a very compact area.

Many thanks to whomever can figure this one out.

 

[hesham]

Great find Circle-5,


I suggest that aircraft was for VFAX competition,but I can't ID it.

 

[overscan (PaulMM)]

Closest to V-507 which had several iterations.

Possibly an inboard pivot iteration? Folding glove (but that would be insane!)?

 

[Bill S]

I would concur with the V-507. There is another jet with a similar configuration, but the 507 went further towards possible production.


Bill

 

[circle-5]

Yes, I think the V-507 might indeed be the answer. As for the folding glove, I can't decide if that idea is wickedly forward-thinking or just plain wrong.

 

[Stargazer]

If these models were meant, say, to simulate the general arrangement of a squadron of V-507 on the deck of an aircraft carrier in scale model form (to give some officials a better idea of how compact they were once folded and how many aircraft could fit there) then not only the markings and details would be unnecessary on these models, but the folding of the wing wouldn't really have to be accurate so long as the dimensions were correct. Just my two cents.

 

[Tailspin Turtle]

Here's an aircraft carrier spotting model from Vought. I don't know what type it represents, but maybe one of you graphics wizards can unfold the wings, stabs and radome which might help visualize the overall shape.

I'm impressed by the wing fold being so close to the root, which makes the airframe fit in a very compact area.

Many thanks to whomever can figure this one out.

Here's how I think the folding works. The wing sweep pivot is in the part of the wing that folds up. To unfold, the wing is first unswept, i.e. it swings up vertically. That moves the semicircle that is hanging down in the swept and folded position so the wing can be unfolded. When the wing is swept back in flight, that semicircle slides into a cavity in the fixed inboard section of the wing.

 

[circle-5]

Here's how I think the folding works. The wing sweep pivot is in the part of the wing that folds up. To unfold, the wing is first unswept, i.e. it swings up vertically. That moves the semicircle that is hanging down in the swept and folded position so the wing can be unfolded. When the wing is swept back in flight, that semicircle slides into a cavity in the fixed inboard section of the wing.

I tried it, but I don't think I got it right...

 

[overscan (PaulMM)]

you need to split that surface into glove and wing sections, attach the glove section in place, and then move out and rotate the remaining wing panels. If you send me the component parts I can do that. There will be guesswork involved as to where the glove ends and how much overlap of course.

 

[Arjen]

I think a combined fold/rotate is part of the wingfold mechanism. That, and a folding wing glove.

During/just before WW2, Fairey and Grumman designed several aircraft with backward folding wings that also rotated on folding. I think Vought borrowed that idea for this spotting model.

Many laborious hours were spent over sketches and with models trying to figure out a way to twist the wings to a vertical position and then fold them back along the fuselage. Finally, Roy Grumman, a fine engineer, found the steps. He saw in all probability that the solution revolved around a pivot. So he took a soap eraser, such as those used in drafting, and used that to represent the fuselage of the plane. Then he took two paper clips for the wings and bent out the short end of each of the clips so that it was normal or perpendicular to the body of the clip. Then he began sticking these short ends into the eraser until he found the proper angle and position at which the clip, when twisted to a vertical position, would also fold back snugly against the eraser. Eureka! It was as simple as that. Once the principle of the “STO-Wing” (as it came to be called) was established, all that remained was some hard engineering work by Grumman’s fine team of engineers to make the mechanism strong and fail-safe.
The STO-Wing was applied to the Wildcat, the Hellcat and the TBF Avenger. The Grumman folding wing is still in use today, notably on the larger carrier-based aircraft built by Grumman

Source: https://www.asme.org/getmedia/2d64abc8-3fa3-4d29-92d4-40db4777e8b2/238-Grumman-Wildcat-Sto-Wing-Wing-folding-Mechanism.aspx

Grumman's folding mechanism is still in use today. Firefly and Hawkeye images from Wiki.

 

[overscan (PaulMM)]

So - here's my take - I agree with Tommy, I believe. The fold is inboard of the pivot so there is a section of glove as well as the wing. While still folded vertically, the wing sweeps fully forward (upwards). Then the glove section folds down - as on right hand side. Once it is down, you can see that rearward sweep will tuck the projecting section of wing into a rear slot on the glove - as shown here on left hand side.

 

[circle-5]

Thank you Overscan. Though you and Tommy are probably correct, the decision to articulate a portion of the glove sections upward, with the wing pivots contained inside, seems like a particularly heavy, complex and fragile arrangement to save a bit of carrier deck space. It would not surprise me if Vought engineers intended to top off this challenge with pivoting underwing hardpoints as well...

If we all agree this is a V-507 model, perhaps this topic could be merged ? Or perhaps add "V-507" to the title ?

 

[Bill S]

Here are some images of the V-507 mockup at various times in it's life.
VAHF material, my scans.


bill

 

[overscan (PaulMM)]

Beautiful images! It sure got a lot of sun for a mockup

 

[Bill S]

I found some images of the V-507 mock up as first revealed.
Other than paint scheme the large IRST pod under the nose
is quite prominent. VAHF images.

 

[Bill S]

Here are some avionics bay, radar and weapons
load out photos of the V-507. VAHF images.

 

[hesham]

Hi,


the Vought VFX.

[font=verdana, arial, helvetica, sans-serif]Flygapennytt 1-1969[/font]

 

[overscan (PaulMM)]

Vought VFX materials in the J Russell Clark collection at UT Dallas:

Box 38

1 Agreement of Understanding between LTV Aerospace 1966 for its LTV Vought Aeronautics Division and Lockheed Aircraft Corporation for its Division Lockheed- California Co.

V507 “Rough Order of Magnitude” 1968

Method of Determining Prices for Varying Lot Quantities nd

Departmental Correspondence 1968

Three photographs of Avions Marcel Dassault 1967

Aviation Magazine nd

2 VFX Pricing, V-507B Configuration 1968

Departmental Correspondence 1968

3 Space/Aeronautics, Article: Tactical Air Superiority 1968

Handwritten notes belonging to Clark on the Config VFX 1968

Report: Avionics, Armament & Engine Tradeoffs nd

Special Agreement between Dassault International and 1968

LTV Aerospace Corporation

Report: VFX Wing Package proposal CALAC vs VAD nd

Report: LTVAC-Dassault Agreements 1968

Lockheed/LTV/Univac Management Meeting 1968

4 VFX Mockup and Display Area 1968

5 Report No. 2-50000/8R-1A, Vought Model V-507 nd

Conference with Professor Courtland 1968

6 VSX Selling Prices - Telephone Discussion 1969

Technical Debriefing of VFX 1969

CVA 59 A/C Elevator Compatibility Study

Box 39

1 Vought Projects Fixed Wing VFX nd

2 Pentagon FX Presentation 1968

NASA debriefing comments relative to the VFX-1 1970

Powerplant Analysis

Highlights of Dassault - LTA Agreement on 1970

Co-operation re: Interchange, Tactical Aircraft
Know-how - VFX Program

Correspondence 1968

Memorandum 1968, 70

 

[fightingirish]

This model of V-507 is at the Patuxent River Naval Air Museum. Ryan Crierie‎ posted these Pictures at the Facebook group page "The Greatest Planes that never were".
You also see a model of the F-111B.
Source: Ryan Crierie‎ at Facebook

 

[overscan (PaulMM)]

Some nice photos of the same model from modelling forum http://zone-five.net/showthread.php?t=22450

 

[overscan (PaulMM)]

Merged topics.

 

[fightingirish]

New article regarding the The V-507 by Bill Spidle at his blog "Voughtworks". B)
Link: http://voughtworks.blogspot.com/2017/08/v-507-f-14-that-wasnt.html
Edit:
Please see his posts #13 to #23 in this topic from 2008.

 

[overscan (PaulMM)]

Posted by Bill at his Voughtworks blog - Info boards.

V-507 The F-14 That Wasn't Part Two

The V-507 Mock Up is Born As was common practice in the industry since the 1930's, an Operations Specification, Request for Proposal or o...

voughtworks.blogspot.co.nz

 

[Archibald]

It wouldn't be too hard to build a 1/72 scale model of that wonderful aircraft. What you need is a Tomcat (thank you, Captain Obvious : ) some Mirage IV air intakes, and a F-111 vertical tail.

 

[Richard N]

A crate of VFX.

 

[circle-5]

I'd be happy with just one of those ... ;D

 

[overscan (PaulMM)]

Where's the crate Richard

 

[Richard N]

Where's the crate Richard

It's somewhere in my warehouse B)

 

[Mark Nankivil]

Good Day All -

Vought drawing - possibly V-505.

Enjoy the Day! Mark

 

[Grey Havoc]

V-507 The F-14 That Wasn't Part Three

After the visitors had passed the various information panels the pathway eventually led to the main event, the full size mock up. The m...

voughtworks.blogspot.com

 

[Bill S]

Ran across this little jewel of a find recently. V-505 model.

 

[overscan (PaulMM)]

Great model.

 

[Mark Nankivil]

Ran across this little jewel of a find recently. V-505 model.

Hope that is resting on your desktop!

Thanks for sharing - a beaut! Mark

 

[Richard N]

Traded a couple of these to a friend and took a couple of shots before they left for their new home. I'm guessing they were 1/72 scale.

 

[overscan (PaulMM)]

Beautiful models! Hope you got a good trade

 

[Richard N]

Got a pretty nice e-bike out of the deal.

 

[Richard N]

They went to a good home.

 

[NoBarrelRolls]

I have a question. What would be the main difference between the V-505 and V-507? Thanks!

 

[overscan (PaulMM)]

As I understand it the V-505 was a proposal which predated the VFX (F-14) requirement. The V-507 was a development of the V-505 to fully address the VFX requirements.