Long road to the F-111: TAC, SOR.183, SDR 17, WS-324A, TFX

[overscan (PaulMM)]

Its quite beautiful. Thanks so much for sharing. How are you grabbing these pictures? Digital camera pic of a projection on a screen?

 

[reelarchives]

Its quite beautiful. Thanks so much for sharing. How are you grabbing these pictures? Digital camera pic of a projection on a screen?

I'm getting the pictures using my digital camera looking at the film frames through a film loupe. I can't project most of the films as they are on film cores. Also when I get the chance I will put some pics up of the XV-5A aircraft. I have both aircraft that they made on film in color.

 

[Orionblamblam]

The film is about 300 ft in length and looks as new as the day it was filmed. It certainly was a beautiful piece of work!

Was the image "100_9069_edited.JPG" one of a series that pans along the entire length of the vehicle? If so, if'n you'd be willing to post a series of images that cover the full length, I'd like to stitch 'em together into one long image.

 

[circle-5]

Great photos, thanks for sharing! Do you plan to make these films available on DVD someday? Please count me in if you do!

 

[blackkite]

Thank you for sharing wonderful pictures.
Republic TFX proposal is one of the most mysterious project for me. I never saw detail 3 side view drawings of this plane.

 

[Stargazer]

Color pics??? This is a first for me! What a beautiful aircraft it would have been...

I believe I don't have to tell you this... but make sure to quickly make digital copies of all this material as the original films are extremely fragile and prone to all sorts of wear and dust. You got yourself a treasure!

 

[overscan (PaulMM)]

Indeed. For posterity's sake, the material ought to be digitised. I don't know of any Republic archives still existing.

 

[reelarchives]

The film is about 300 ft in length and looks as new as the day it was filmed. It certainly was a beautiful piece of work!

Was the image "100_9069_edited.JPG" one of a series that pans along the entire length of the vehicle? If so, if'n you'd be willing to post a series of images that cover the full length, I'd like to stitch 'em together into one long image.

Here you go:

 

[reelarchives]

Great photos, thanks for sharing! Do you plan to make these films available on DVD someday? Please count me in if you do!

This is one film I will certainly get copied. If anyone wants one simply drop me an email and I'll let you know when it is copied. I will donate a % to this website too

 

[reelarchives]

Color pics??? This is a first for me! What a beautiful aircraft it would have been...

I believe I don't have to tell you this... but make sure to quickly make digital copies of all this material as the original films are extremely fragile and prone to all sorts of wear and dust. You got yourself a treasure!

These films are in almost new condition because they were rolled up on a film core inside a film can. When I say "these" I mean 2 films - the original "Master" and the "WP" meaning the work print. So both films are in almost new condition. Fortunately many of the film's have some details written on the leaders so i know what I am looking at.

 

[overscan (PaulMM)]

Great photos, thanks for sharing! Do you plan to make these films available on DVD someday? Please count me in if you do!

This is one film I will certainly get copied. If anyone wants one simply drop me an email and I'll let you know when it is copied. I will donate a % to this website too

Definitely.

 

[Orionblamblam]

Was the image "100_9069_edited.JPG" one of a series that pans along the entire length of the vehicle?

Here you go:

So... that's a "no," then?
:-[

 

[nugo]

Hi reelarchives!

Very good information and pictures about Republic TFX/Model AP-?
If ye have a Film about fighter-bomber Republic WS-300A (pre-pre "TFX", is nowhere information and photos) and if you can show us.

 

[Skybolt]

Are there in the film shots of the section of the mock-up scenery devoted to panels and models (the back-end) ?

 

[Pioneer]

Evening gents

I am going through some of my older files and came across this picture.
The only thing I have written is - 'Mock-up of early Model 818 designed to USAF SOR-183 competition'. My file shows that I saved it in 2008 (but I have no recollection or its source!!)

Regards
Pioneer

 

[Stargazer]

This is the mock-up of the Boeing Model 818 TFX proposal. Thanks a lot for sharing!

 

[flateric]

AFAIR, this aircraft was one in of Orionblamblam quizes...

 

[sferrin]

Probably Orionblamblam. ISTR him posting it back then as a "mystery aircraft". I don't recall if it was ever said what it was.

 

[Skybolt]

He said, he said...

 

[Pioneer]

Its more than likely the source gents - as I said it was a while ago. I am usually more meticulous about saving the details of the source! A lesson learnt!!
Anyway, its a great picture! Just imagine having the job of making model`s this size!
Although I have to query whether it is a Model 818, as it has no dorsal intakes.

Regards
Pioneer

 

[Stargazer]

You are right. The Model 818 (USAF) and 818N (Navy) proposals both had dorsal, not lateral intakes... Unless the final configuration adopted for the mockup came under a different subversion (818-***)? If it is Boeing and if it is TFX, then it HAS to be a Model 818...

 

[Orionblamblam]

Although I have to query whether it is a Model 818, as it has no dorsal intakes.

There were a *lot* of Model 818 studies.

 

[OM]

Probably Orionblamblam. ISTR him posting it back then as a "mystery aircraft".

...He does that from time to time. We probably should get around to appreciating him for it one of these days

 

[overscan (PaulMM)]

Wind tunnel models of the early Republic TFX (Labelled "Republic TAC")

http://crgis.ndc.nasa.gov/historic/Test_168:_Republic_TAC_Model

 

[overscan (PaulMM)]

McDonnell-Douglas VG model from 1960 that appears to be the ancestor of their TFX design. Different in detail but retains the long nose.

NACA/NASA Langley: Celebrating 100 Years

NASA.gov brings you the latest images, videos and news from America's space agency. Get the latest updates on NASA missions, watch NASA TV live, and learn about our quest to reveal the unknown and benefit all humankind.

crgis.ndc.nasa.gov

 

[blackkite]

Excellent pictures! Yes wind tunnel test model's air intake shape and vertical tail stabilizer shape are different from display model.

 

[Skybolt]

The one depicted is probably the McDonnel solo proposal for SOR-183. To my eyes, moreover, is considerably larger than tthe TFX model in the photo, as all the SDR-17 and SOR-183 submission were compared with the TFX ones, even if derived from the former. This is a first, BTW, since the McDonnel submissions are the least known (euphemism) of the lot. Unfortunately oher entries for McDonnel 1960 and 1961 proposal for TAC (TFX ?) are empty in the Langley site....
http://crgis.ndc.nasa.gov/historic/Test_172:_McDonnell_TAC_Model
http://crgis.ndc.nasa.gov/historic/Test_175:_MacDonnell_TAC_Model

 

[overscan (PaulMM)]

Yes, there is the same sequence for other manufacturers - first a "VG" or Variable Sweep" model, then a "TAC" model.

 

[Stargazer]

McDonnell-Douglas VG model from 1960 that appears to be the ancestor of their TFX design above. Different in detail but retains the long nose.

McDonnell only, NOT McDonnell Douglas in 1960, since the merger between the two companies took place later.

 

[Skybolt]

Naturally. Douglas had a different entry early in the competition (probably you'll see it in a few months...) BUT, the final TFX submission saw the two companies paired... so it was a McDonnel & Douglas TFX.

 

[Triton]

Naturally. Douglas had a different entry early in the competition (probably you'll see it in a few months...) BUT, the final TFX submission saw the two companies paired... so it was a McDonnel & Douglas TFX.

Thanks for the information Skybolt. I was not aware of collaboration between the two companies prior to their merger on April 28, 1967.

 

[overscan (PaulMM)]

Now this looks nearer - still appears longer and the tail is wrong - possibly this is the "TAC" study? Identified as McDonnell BC-22, 1961.

Source:

NACA/NASA Langley: Celebrating 100 Years

NASA.gov brings you the latest images, videos and news from America's space agency. Get the latest updates on NASA missions, watch NASA TV live, and learn about our quest to reveal the unknown and benefit all humankind.

crgis.ndc.nasa.gov

 

[Anderman]

Sure this a McDonnell design?

The engine pods are quite similar to a Lockheed design that´s here in the Forum.

http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,1601.msg13652.html#msg13652

and some art

http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,1879.0.html

 

[overscan (PaulMM)]

Well, NASA are sure, and it looks a lot like the TFX model. Seems odd to doubt it...

 

[Skybolt]

Surely McDonnell. Lockheed didn't tested at Langley, like Boeing.

possibly this is the "TAC" study? Identified as McDonnell BC-22, 1961.

Yes, could be. By the way, even the earliest strictly TFX competition was an Air Force solo one. TFX-TAC morphed in TFX-Joint when McNamara stepped in and forced the fusion with the Fleet Air Defense requirement by the Navy. This actually took some time, since he initially tried to cover the Marine CAS requirement too. So if the tests on this model were conducted in early 1961 this is surely a "TAC" study. Just waiting for the TFX files in NARA being declassified (I lost hope for the copy docs at Wright-Patterson).

 

[overscan (PaulMM)]

Nice video of the NASA "TAC" models

 

[JFC Fuller]

Evening gents

I am going through some of my older files and came across this picture.
The only thing I have written is - 'Mock-up of early Model 818 designed to USAF SOR-183 competition'. My file shows that I saved it in 2008 (but I have no recollection or its source!!)

Regards
Pioneer

If you look back at some of the earlier posts in this thread there are two photos that appear to show models or bits of that look very similar to this mock-up.


See the following:


http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,526.msg3929.html#msg3929 (third picture down; bottom right and bottom left appears to show nose and cockpit sections very similar to the one used on this mockup)


http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,526.msg69965.html#msg69965 (In this picture there are two models that show similarities- the most similar is the wingless model [wings next to it] on the free standing table at the top right and the second most similar, though lacking any tail surfaces, is on the free standing table at the top left.

 

[sferrin]

Evening gents

I am going through some of my older files and came across this picture.
The only thing I have written is - 'Mock-up of early Model 818 designed to USAF SOR-183 competition'. My file shows that I saved it in 2008 (but I have no recollection or its source!!)

Regards
Pioneer

If you look back at some of the earlier posts in this thread there are two photos that appear to show models or bits of that look very similar to this mock-up.


See the following:


http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,526.msg3929.html#msg3929 (third picture down; bottom right and bottom left appears to show nose and cockpit sections very similar to the one used on this mockup)


http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,526.msg69965.html#msg69965 (In this picture there are two models that show similarities- the most similar is the wingless model [wings next to it] on the free standing table at the top right and the second most similar, though lacking any tail surfaces, is on the free standing table at the top left.

Page 135 of American Secret Projects: Bombers, Attack etc. talks about Boeing's 818 entry and mentions that mockup "which may have represented the 1961 submission).

 

[overscan (PaulMM)]

http://crgis.ndc.nasa.gov/historic/Test_172:_McDonnell_Variable_Sweep
http://crgis.ndc.nasa.gov/historic/Test_172:_McDonnell_TAC_Model
http://crgis.ndc.nasa.gov/historic/Test_175:_MacDonnell_TAC_Model

 

[overscan (PaulMM)]

Screenshots from Republic TFX video digitised by "reelarchives" (Shawn)