Lockheed Martin F-35 Lightning II Joint Strike Fighter (JSF)

GTX said:
www.twz.com

Greece Buying F-35s Widens Qualitative Gap With Turkey

F-35s will fly alongside Rafales and F-16s in a modernized Hellenic Air Force.
www.twz.com www.twz.com
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By now Erdy must be deeply regretting Turkey buying the SA-21 Growler system especially in light of it NOT performing as Russian propaganda advertisements said it would (If he's smart he'll have Turkey's SA-21 batteries packed up and donated to Ukraine). Oh, yes, I've no doubt that Erdy and the Turkish airforce now have a bad case of buyer's remorse.
 
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timmymagic said:
Even with an increased defence budget (which is by no means certain, or likely to not be calculated in such a way as it doesn't actually result in a real increase) I think its exceptionally unlikely that we will buy more than the 74 that are currently on the shopping list.

The ongoing programmatic delays, failure to integrate weapons beyond what a Tranche 1 Typhoon carries already in a reasonable time frame, the utter disaster that is the fast jet training pipeline, demands on budget for GCAP, Typhoon upgrades etc etc means that F-35 has missed the boat...the second batch of 27 to bring the fleet to 74 by c2032 will be the last. Of course MoD won't admit this for some time, but after that all, and I mean all, of the Combat Air budget will be spent on Typhoon upgrades, unmanned systems, the inevitable F-35B upgrades and, most of all, GCAP. If F-35 had actually arrived on time, and had continued to deliver upgraded capabilities on time and budget the story might have been different....

There is also zero chance of an F-35A buy....a couple of defence commentators keep bringing a split buy up, there is clearly someone in the RAF and/or LM feeding them the story as a 'tame' commentator, but they never actually manage to explain how on earth it happens with the Combat Air budget as it is...the only potential chance for that is if GCAP suddenly fails, which would mean the UK's Combat Air industry dies...and the new government will not allow that to happen. The good news is that these nonsense stories have a shelf life....as soon as GCAP shows some progress in public, with a demonstrator, full business case, serious money committed and spent etc then the F-35A split buy nonsense dies a death and very quickly too...hopefully everyone remembers the berks who keep bringing it up and factors that in to whether they're considered a serious commentator in future...
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if we aren't contracted to buy more than 48 then you'll never see anything than upgrades and individual replacements. We cannot afford to run what we have, where the money coming for another 27 aircraft which still don't work.
 
63gehark_ said:
if we aren't contracted to buy more than 48 then you'll never see anything than upgrades and individual replacements. We cannot afford to run what we have, where the money coming for another 27 aircraft which still don't work.
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The 27 are already factored into the budget...along with the 6 A-400M.
 
Thanks for the confirmation. Its a pity as we could have spent the money better elsewhere on something that might work.

Guess we need to find a big field to park them in until their replacement arrives.
 
TomcatViP said:
SDB II for Belgian F-35:

www.janes.com

US approves sale of StormBreaker bombs to Belgium for F-35A

The US government has approved the sale to Belgium of the RTX GBU-53/B Small Diameter Bomb (SDB) IIs (now known more commonly as StormBreaker) for its fleet of Lockheed...
www.janes.com www.janes.com
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Well done Belgium...you've managed to purchase a whole 5.75 SDBII for each F-35...

They couldn't even get to one full loadout per aircraft...thats what happens when you spend 1.21% of GDP on defence
 
timmymagic said:
Well done Belgium...you've managed to purchase a whole 5.75 SDBII for each F-35...

They couldn't even get to one full loadout per aircraft...thats what happens when you spend 1.21% of GDP on defence
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Well, cynically speaking, by themselves they don't need a single one - there is no threat.
Should the unthinkable happen - and US stock will support them.
Otherwise, they probably shouldn't have bought f-35 in the first place.
 
Scott Kenny said:
Isn't that well below the NATO requirements?
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That basically at Requested Guidelines, its 1 to 2 percent depending on nations size and well.

Belgium is small compare to many in nato.

Also a country can offset that by having other facilities for nato use like ports or basings. And Belgium is a decently large logi hub to get stuff INTO Europe.
 
Firefinder said:
That basically at Requested Guidelines, its 1 to 2 percent depending on nations size and well.

Belgium is small compare to many in nato.

Also a country can offset that by having other facilities for nato use like ports or basings. And Belgium is a decently large logi hub to get stuff INTO Europe.
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Ah, I think I'd be willing to accept the lower military spending due to the big ports there.

Might want to encourage an occasional increase in spending, like one year out of every 5 they'd spend 1.5% instead of the regular 1.2%, just to keep their own forces adequately equipped (and/or maybe encourage a trip to the US for training).
 
Scott Kenny said:
Might want to encourage an occasional increase in spending, like one year out of every 5 they'd spend 1.5% instead of the regular 1.2%, just to keep their own forces adequately equipped (and/or maybe encourage a trip to the US for training).
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Realistically speaking, they're overequipped, and them buying f-35s(which add very little to their defense at best) is already a big contribution at their expense. Their own need is limited to air policing, even maritime strike is long irrelevant. We talked about gripen being complete or not on other thread. That can be debated, but objectively, even gripen is a maaassive overcapacity (and thus overspending) for Belgium. Thus they're already buying politics, not aircraft.

Yes, one might say that w/o NATO they would have to spend much more...but (1)they don't really believe in it, and (2)it would hardly be on f-35s.

And even with large budget, chances country like Belgium will be able to afford truly proper PGM stocks are slim - it's US burden in any case. It can be lightened, but it won't be lightened significantly, and whatever can be done, can only be done begrudgingly.
 
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timmymagic said:
Well done Belgium...you've managed to purchase a whole 5.75 SDBII for each F-35...

They couldn't even get to one full loadout per aircraft...thats what happens when you spend 1.21% of GDP on defence
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Give them a break. At 200K $ a pop (FY21 price), those things are pretty expensive. I noticed other GBU-53 customers like Norway, Germany, Italy and South Korea didnt order it in huge quantities either. Just a few hundreds at most.

I also think StormBreaker will only be used in specific situations. It certainly isnt going to be the standard F-35 munition for A2G. The much cheaper JDAM will be the weapon of choice for most missions. GBU-53s are just too expensive to be used as general-purpose strike weapons.
 
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Ainen said:
Realistically speaking, they're overequipped, and them buying f-35s(which add very little to their defense at best) is already a big contribution at their expense. Their own need is limited to air policing, even maritime strike is long irrelevant. We talked about gripen being complete or not on other thread. That can be debated, but objectively, even gripen is a maaassive overcapacity (and thus overspending) for Belgium. Thus they're already buying politics, not aircraft.

Yes, one might say that w/o NATO they would have to spend much more...but (1)they don't really believe in it, and (2)it would hardly be on f-35s.

And even with large budget, chances country like Belgium will be able to afford truly proper PGM stocks are slim - it's US burden in any case. It can be lightened, but it won't be lightened significantly, and whatever can be done, can only be done begrudgingly.
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Thats not a very informed post to put it mildly...

Saying Belgium's needs are limited to policing its own airspace is nonsense. Belgium is not a neutral country like Switzerland. It is a member of NATO (one of its founding members in fact) and it has to contribute to the Alliance's collective defence. And you clearly havent pay attention to what the Belgians have been doing over the last 25-ish years. Out-of-area operations have become the bread and butter of the BAF with many combat deployments to Bosnia, Kosovo, Afghanistan, Libya, Iraq/Syria as well as regular deployments in the Baltics for air policing duties (Belgian F-16s were actually the first NATO fighters to be deployed to these former Soviet republics back in 2004).

Belgium is also in the peculiar situation of being one of the few European NATO countries to have nuclear strike duties due to the presence of US B61 tactical nukes on its soil. In wartime, those nukes would be delivered by Belgian aircraft flown by Belgian pilots (NATO nuclear sharing policy). This nuclear mission has existed for decades first with the F-84F then the F-104G, the F-16 today and will continue in the future with the F-35. Gripen was never seriously considered in Belgium for that reason alone.
 
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GBU-53

iu



JDAM

iu


They are not employed in the same context. Apple and Banana.
 
ST21 said:
I noticed other GBU-53 customers like Norway, Germany, Italy and South Korea didnt order it in huge quantities either. Just a few hundreds at most.
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2 of those countries, Germany and Italy, will also be getting Spear. South Korea is not exactly short of munitions...
 
I am surprised that the UK is not getting the GBU-53 especially to supplement SPEAR 3. It would be good to have both weapons on the UKs F-35Bs.
 
FighterJock said:
I am surprised that the UK is not getting the GBU-53 especially to supplement SPEAR 3. It would be good to have both weapons on the UKs F-35Bs.
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Their mission pretty much overlapped, purchasing GBU-53 would be redundance for UK. Not to mentioned that it not good for UK arms industry
 
Thanks Ronny. So why don't we design our own GBU-53 equivalent weapon using the SPEAR 3 as a starting point by removing the missiles engine and keeping the fins and the guidance kit? It would not be that difficult?
 
ST21 said:
Saying Belgium's needs are limited to policing its own airspace is nonsense. Belgium is not a neutral country like Switzerland. It is a member of NATO (one of its founding members in fact) and it has to contribute to the Alliance's collective defence.
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And that's exactly that - contributions.
Belgium by itself doesn't need that, as it's at least several sets of borders away from literally anything.
By asking for more contributions on top of that's already a one huge contribution - you're reminding about exactly that.
ST21 said:
Belgium is also in the peculiar situation of being one of the few European NATO countries to have nuclear strike duties due to the presence of US B61 tactical nukes on its soil.
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And that's again a contribution. Coming, mind you, with acceptance of retribution on their part - for common good.
Getting them to pay for hundred SDB iis, aargms, jasms and all other stuff will just grow into the list of that they do for others. Realistically - above their economic power (as something as expensive as f-35 combat system - not just plane - is clearly above a small county).

If you want someone to do something - be mindful enough to accept that contribution is in fact just that - contribution, and a very pure one. Going around preaching that this isn't enough won't really help.
 
FighterJock said:
Thanks Ronny. So why don't we design our own GBU-53 equivalent weapon using the SPEAR 3 as a starting point by removing the missiles engine and keeping the fins and the guidance kit? It would not be that difficult?
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It’s seemingly already proposed by MBDA as Smart Glider Light (previously just Smart Glider).

www.mbda-systems.com

SMARTGLIDER | Air Dominance, TACTICAL STRIKE | MBDA

SMARTGLIDER Air Dominance, TACTICAL STRIKE | LONG RANGE, MULTI-TARGET PRECISION GLIDE MUNITION | High precision and flexible multi-mode terminal guidance
www.mbda-systems.com www.mbda-systems.com
 
FighterJock said:
Thanks Ronny. So why don't we design our own GBU-53 equivalent weapon using the SPEAR 3 as a starting point by removing the missiles engine and keeping the fins and the guidance kit? It would not be that difficult?
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MBDA did offered smart glider for other nation like UAE as a cheap alternative for Spear. However, I don’t think UK themselves will purchase any smart glider when they already intended to purchase SPEAR. Overall, SPEAR just better for the same job:
* Much longer range
* Faster cruising speed (shorter time to target)
* Retain decent range even when lauched from low altitude (very important as UK will also use it as anti ship missile for their carrier based F-35B).
The only advantage of smart glider is cost. But the problem is economy of scale. Since mission of smart glider and spear are overlapped. If you purchase more smart glider, that mean you purchase less SPEAR, and that drive up the unit cost
 
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You could have a powered GBU-53 of a sort by mounting a suitable short burn duration launch-booster on its' tail, the rocket-motor used to power the Hellfire II or the JAGM would be a suitable candidate, while it wouldn't the range of a SPEAR 3 it would still be longer than that of an unpowered GBU-53.
 
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NMaude said:
You could have a powered GBU-53 of a sort by mounting a suitable short burn duration launch-booster on its' tail, the rocket-motor used to power the Hellfire II or the JAGM would be a suitable candidate, while it wouldn't the range of a SPEAR 3 it would still be longer than that of an unpowered GBU-53.
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Heck there is an option of having the motor being command ignition.

Drop it a good distance out letting it glide til at X distance it fires motor and boosts for added range or terminal sprint. That will make defense slightly harder to say nothing of the stealthing since its not firing by the plane.

Honestly would perfer a bespoke motor for the SDBs. A Hellfire or JAGM going to add at least a foot to the weapon and that will make quad packing on the as is carriage harder. Might be able to use a noval motor to avoid that.

or maybe an electric one... There is enough space for a Drone type Electric motor, battery and propeller. Be pretty slow but still can easily double the range and as is the SDB are a pain to detect. Without a rocket plume and like it will a pain to deal with.

Add in the systems stocking controlling datalinks and you basically have have a 250 pound FPV drone.
 
timmymagic said:
Well done Belgium...you've managed to purchase a whole 5.75 SDBII for each F-35...

They couldn't even get to one full loadout per aircraft...thats what happens when you spend 1.21% of GDP on defence
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Didn't know that :)
That is pathetic even for Belgian standards.... But then again the motto of Belgium is: Better to have no standards then failing them.
For the rest of the Belgians here: You all know this to be true :p
 

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