Lockheed Martin AIM-260 Joint Advanced Tactical Missile (JATM)

While I can easily see there being a backlog for F-35 integration giving the blk4 and weapon integration delays, is there any reason why integration of AIM-260 not be an eventuality goal?
 
Colonial-Marine said:
Back to whatever the AIM-260 is, I've lost track of whatever the schedule for the program even looks like anymore. I thought it was supposed to be doing like shots on targets and in LRIP by now, and at that point I don't see how they could keep the basic appearance of the missile hidden.
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Missiles shot at high alt are generally extremely hard to spot with commercial cameras and the smoke plumes could be mistaken for another vehicle. On the ground I'd imagine there will be lots of security. And @Shusui drew a good-enough illustration of the basic OML.
Josh_TN said:
While I can easily see there being a backlog for F-35 integration giving the blk4 and weapon integration delays, is there any reason why integration of AIM-260 not be an eventuality goal?
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I don't see why the AIM-260 will not be integrated. Keep in mind that what was being talked about is the short term plan. There's not alot of change in LRAAM handling between the F-22 and F-35. Maybe the USAF want to keep the cost of integration on F-35 out of the current budget. The USN did basically the same thing for SupaBug. After JATM gets the nod for full scale production people will be talking differently.
 
quellish said:
If you read the direct quotes from him in 2019 it’s clear that the F-35 is described as a “follow on” or “potential”. His statements were wishful thinking and clearly did not reflect the plan or program of record.
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So it's your belief that they are building a new missile they want to use in support of CCA solely for use in Rhinos and a manned fighter that they want to retire in the next 10-15 years. That's a bold belief, but you're welcome to it.
 
Josh_TN said:
While I can easily see there being a backlog for F-35 integration giving the blk4 and weapon integration delays, is there any reason why integration of AIM-260 not be an eventuality goal?
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Because the AIM-260 is a top end AAM, and the F-35 really shouldn't have a F- series number. F-35s are mud movers, not air-to-air monsters. If/when the AMRAAM finally leaves US service is when the F-35 would get AIM-260s.

F-18s are getting AIM-260s because the USN needs a Phoenix-replacement, and AMRAAM-Ds aren't quite cutting it. (See also AIM-174s)
 
Scott Kenny said:
[T]he F-35 really shouldn't have a F- series number. F-35s are mud movers, not air-to-air monsters.
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I'm not sure where you're getting this idea from. The F-35 is no more or less strike aircraft than the F-15, 16 or 18. The USAF just refused to use the 15 as the advanced strike fighter it was until the 15E.

Quellish pointed vaguely to possibly one of the broadest sources. I'm not going to be an ass and say "broof???" because I get not wanting to find something again, but until I see what he's seeing I don't see any reason to believe that F-35 integration is not high on the list.
It's possible that the services consider F-35 adequate with D-3, but I'm extremely skeptical.
 
The F35 with an A2A load is second only to the fucking clean F16 in agility and is more then able to hang with it and the other fighters in WVR, while in BVR work the F35 murders everything not a F22 and even that thing needs to be on it toes. That one F16 fight had it loaded with 6000 of ordnances to the clean unarmed F16, every other fight it went in had it win handly.

Only likely reason the F35 is low on the intergation list is due to the snafu with the TR3, was it forget, programing that screwing up the program at the moment and the DOD dont want to add to that list.

Like imagine programing something that been kicking you for the last year or so and right when you think you got it lick you boss comes in and tells you to add this thing you never heard of let alone seen and must keep to schedule.

Eyeah Someone will likely be stabbed by a keyboard.
 
yeetmahboi said:
Missiles shot at high alt are generally extremely hard to spot with commercial cameras and the smoke plumes could be mistaken for another vehicle. On the ground I'd imagine there will be lots of security. And @Shusui drew a good-enough illustration of the basic OML.

I don't see why the AIM-260 will not be integrated. Keep in mind that what was being talked about is the short term plan. There's not alot of change in LRAAM handling between the F-22 and F-35. Maybe the USAF want to keep the cost of integration on F-35 out of the current budget. The USN did basically the same thing for SupaBug. After JATM gets the nod for full scale production people will be talking differently.
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Why would it be integrated? Just put them on the CCA and let the F-35 keep the internal storage for more pertinent ordnance in the air to ground role.
 
Shusui said:
Why would it be integrated? Just put them on the CCA and let the F-35 keep the internal storage for more pertinent ordnance in the air to ground role.
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PGMs would greatly reduce the need for massive A2G sortie single-warload.
And if the F-35 guys thought they wouldn't play A2A then why fund the Sidekick rack at all?
 
Shusui said:
Why would it be integrated? Just put them on the CCA and let the F-35 keep the internal storage for more pertinent ordnance in the air to ground role.
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Cheap sensors, close. Expensive weapons platforms, far.
 
NMaude said:
Self-defence.
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NMaude said:
Self-defence.
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That doesn't make sense. The Sidekick rack would go in the overhead stations (STA 4 and 8). If you put the Sidekick there, you can't put any air to ground munitions in that bay. You don't give up your internal air to ground capabilities and do a 6 BVRAAM loadout in the name of self defense, unless you define going out there and BVRing enemy aircraft, while other F-35 does strike as self defense. Not to mention, there's always STA 5 and 7 where currently nothing else is integrated. So regardless what's put on STA 4/8, 5/7 will always have an AMRAAM or JATM or METEOR in the future (the very latter for the euros ofc)
 
The DOD is investing money in HW upgrades to allow the F-35 to carry up to six medium ranged air to air missiles vs the four the aircraft was originally equipped to carry internally. That should put to rest any doubts that one might have about them investing in improving the platform's air to air capability. The F-35 JPO has often referenced classified capabilities and more weapons it plans to integrate in Block 4 than it has officially revealed (IIRC) so there's a possibility that they've quitely provisioned for JATM integration already. But we'll see when they actually reveal additional details on the JATM in the coming years.

As JATM comes online, and is available in numbers, they will expand the number of platforms that can launch it. Similar to what we are seeing with LRASM now - where a couple of initial platforms was all the DOD wanted given limited LRIP production and low planned inventory #s..with the list now including everything from P-8, F-35 to F-15E and EX being readied for LRASM use not that the planned inventory objective has increased.

According to the USAF, the AIM-260A JATM is the replacement for the AIM-120 AMRAAM. If that is the case (no reason to believe it not to be), then most AMRAAM shooters will eventually get the JATM as long as the AF is planning on keeping them around. It might take a while though given priorities and resources and possibly the development of other weapons more suitable to some of these platforms (the 'outsized' weapons they keep referring to when talking about F-15EX).
 
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Doha said:
Doubt the C/D would ever get JATM
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Depends on replacement rate with EXs. If the C/Ds linger till 2030 without full replacement, then I suspect they'll get JATMs.

If Boeing can pull their head out and deliver all the EXs by 2027, then no the C/Ds would never get JATMs.

But right now, Boeing is only completing like 12x EX a year, so it'll take till 2033 before all the EXs are delivered!
 
Scott Kenny said:
Depends on replacement rate with EXs. If the C/Ds linger till 2030 without full replacement, then I suspect they'll get JATMs.

If Boeing can pull their head out and deliver all the EXs by 2027, then no the C/Ds would never get JATMs.

But right now, Boeing is only completing like 12x EX a year, so it'll take till 2033 before all the EXs are delivered!
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Boeing is expanding EX production to 24x per/yr starting next year. Even if they don't meet that target, it'll most likely be close. The current plan is to have the C/D gone by 2026 iirc, I can see that probably getting pushed back a bit but would be surprised if they make it beyond 2029.
 
Jason Dykstra (Wyvern) said:
The Charlies and Deltas are rapidly approaching their maximum lifespan iirc
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Yeah. Worth mentioning that recently they finished PDM of the last C. They'll probably be fine for the next 3-4 years, assuming they got close to another thousand flight hours left, if not more (otherwise it doesn't make sense to spend the money if it's way lower than that 1k FHR).
https://twitter.com/x/status/1877868980691464467
View: https://x.com/zaphod58/status/1877868980691464467?t=GX-xGwFkZ-apGgQYF2_oVw&s=19
 
Doha said:
Yeah. Worth mentioning that recently they finished PDM of the last C. They'll probably be fine for the next 3-4 years, assuming they got close to another thousand flight hours left, if not more (otherwise it doesn't make sense to spend the money if it's way lower than that 1k FHR).
https://twitter.com/x/status/1877868980691464467
View: https://x.com/zaphod58/status/1877868980691464467?t=GX-xGwFkZ-apGgQYF2_oVw&s=19
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I wouldn't be surprised if they cut flying hours of C/Ds down to about 125/yr to stretch their lives out till EX production gets them replaced.
 

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