Littoral Combat Ship - Freedom/Independence

LCS was a train wreck from the start, honestly. Trying to take a dubious RMA concept (Art Cebrowski's Streetfighter) and find some way to operationalize it to fill actual mission shortfalls. There were two critical failure points -- the insistence on high speed without a fully worked justification, and the reliance on mission modules that were never adequately thought out or funded. And because of how Rumsfeld's OSD worked, it all had to be done at accelerated pace without time to actually study the idea properly.
 
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It seems the LCS-2 class is a much better ship than the LCS-1 and seems to be more versatile as well. The LCS-2 class has had some issues but nothing like the LCS-1 class.
 
Hydroman said:
It seems the LCS-2 class is a much better ship than the LCS-1 and seems to be more versatile as well. The LCS-2 class has had some issues but nothing like the LCS-1 class.
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There are structural durability concerns with the all-Aluminum Independence class and their boat/drone launch and recovery system is more of a pain than it should be. But yes it definitely seems to outperform the Freedom class.
 
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fredymac said:
The Airborne Laser Mine Detection System is part of the Mine Warfare package for the LCS. The RAMICS supercavitating gun was originally going to be used as a means to destroy mines after they had been mapped. This video from NAMMO may be related to development testing of the supercavitating rounds.

Old ALMDS and RAMICS video from Northrop
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k1gQuW5VBos


NAMMO supercavitating round test video. Video Description:
Nammo’s 30 mm Swimmer (APFSDS-T MK 258 Mod 1) swims straight through water, thanks to a groundbreaking design on the supercavitating projectile developed in cooperation with the US Navy. This video is the first time we are able to show the performance of the ammunition in public. (Note: video has no audio)
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View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QlAVXMaRl7w
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This May 12, 2023 article https://news.usni.org/2023/05/12/navy-talks-details-on-lcs-mine-countermeaures-mission-package states "After several years of delays, the Navy’s mine countermeasures mission package for the Littoral Combat Ship has finally reached its initial operating capability.

Last year, the Navy tested the mission package and its systems aboard Independence-class LCS USS Cincinnati (LCS-20), leading the service to announce last week that the MCM mission package achieved the IOC milestone.

The mission package includes unmanned aviation and surface systems, like the Airborne Laser Mine Detection System (ALMDS) and the Airborne Mine Neutralization System (AMNS) for aviation."
 
bcredman said:
This May 12, 2023 article https://news.usni.org/2023/05/12/navy-talks-details-on-lcs-mine-countermeaures-mission-package states "After several years of delays, the Navy’s mine countermeasures mission package for the Littoral Combat Ship has finally reached its initial operating capability.

Last year, the Navy tested the mission package and its systems aboard Independence-class LCS USS Cincinnati (LCS-20), leading the service to announce last week that the MCM mission package achieved the IOC milestone.

The mission package includes unmanned aviation and surface systems, like the Airborne Laser Mine Detection System (ALMDS) and the Airborne Mine Neutralization System (AMNS) for aviation."
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JFC, these systems were supposedly almost ready for service when I worked for OPNAV N952* (Mine Warfare) more than 20 years ago.

* So long ago that it was actually N852 when I worked there...
 
Interesting. I assume that the recommended abolishment of CAPE is due to lack of accuracy in related LCS data collection and cost estimates. Poor performance there is bound to slosh back onto the current Under Secretary of Defense for Acquisition and Sustainment. Small wonder that no-one wanted that USD(A&S) gig for most of Biden's term.
 
aonestudio said:
news.usni.org

HASC Agrees to Navy's Plans to Shed Littoral Combat Ships, Moves to Abolish CAPE - USNI News

The House Armed Services Committee will allow the Navy to move ahead with plans to decommission the troubled Littoral Combat Ships and wants to shutter the Pentagon’s Cost Assessment and Program Evaluation office. In its mark of the Fiscal Year 2024 defense policy bill, the HASC seapower and...
news.usni.org news.usni.org
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Interesting, I was thinking Mexico would be the obvious choice to buy these and the article mentions Mexico is interested. The two Independence class LCS would be perfect replacements for the two Sa'ar 4.5 class missile boats Mexico currently has, the LCS would work great in the Gulf and Caribbean.
 
www.reuters.com

USS Canberra: US commissions first Navy warship in foreign port

The United States commissioned a warship in Sydney, Australia, on Saturday, the first time a U.S. Navy vessel joined active service at a foreign port, as the two close allies step up their military ties in response to China's expanding regional reach.
www.reuters.com www.reuters.com
 
TomS said:
You're think the appropriate response to a gentle ramming (which didn't actually happen, BTW) is to kill the bridge crew of an opposing ship, and you accuse someone else of being a drama queen??? ???

Here's a sense of perspective for you. When USS Carron got "rammed" (shouldered) by a Societ ship in the Black Sea back in 1988, her CO didn't shoot up the Soviet ship or even aim his weapons at them; he called away a bosun's party and put them over the side to paint over the scratches, while still steaming along in the Black Sea with the Soviet Navy in company. Because that's what professionals do -- they get on with the mission without escalating an incident into a shooting conflict.
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They also welded enough steel to the hull that the next game of bumper boats was going to put holes in the Soviet ship.
 
Grey Havoc said:
Originally spotted over at MilitaryPhotos.net:
Special Report: Littoral Warfare (DefenseNews)

bilde

[IMAGE CREDIT: US Navy/DefenseNews]

EDIT: The image link has been restored, but once bitten, twice shy!​
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That camo also hides the smoke marks on the hull from the diesel generators, that for some reason don't get exhausted out the stacks...
 
TomS said:
JFC, these systems were supposedly almost ready for service when I worked for OPNAV N952* (Mine Warfare) more than 20 years ago.

* So long ago that it was actually N852 when I worked there...
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26 years ago I started working at Arete' Associates on the laser and receiver technologies that eventually went into ALMDS. I concur that it has been a long time.
 
bcredman said:
This May 12, 2023 article https://news.usni.org/2023/05/12/navy-talks-details-on-lcs-mine-countermeaures-mission-package states "After several years of delays, the Navy’s mine countermeasures mission package for the Littoral Combat Ship has finally reached its initial operating capability.

Last year, the Navy tested the mission package and its systems aboard Independence-class LCS USS Cincinnati (LCS-20), leading the service to announce last week that the MCM mission package achieved the IOC milestone.

The mission package includes unmanned aviation and surface systems, like the Airborne Laser Mine Detection System (ALMDS) and the Airborne Mine Neutralization System (AMNS) for aviation."
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MCM package is IOC, sure but I should always note that RAMICS and OASIS, two of the AMCM componetns that were meant for highspeed mine hunting were shelved, which means AMCM lost quite a significant portion of its highspeed shallow-to-medium depth mine clearing capabilities It's a shame, though fortunately they're adding new AMCM capabilities like Barracuda that wasn't part of the AMCM program when it was first incepted, alongside various other UUV/USV mine hunting capabilities, so transition from legacy mine sweepers/hunters to LCS (Independence would be done, sooner or later)
 
GTX said:
www.flightglobal.com

US Navy’s MQ-8C Fire Scouts fly into retirement just two years after entering operational service

US Navy (USN) budget documents reveal that the service plans to retire the newest variant of an unmanned helicopter it spent more than a decade and nearly $1.5 billion developing.
www.flightglobal.com www.flightglobal.com
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Grey Havoc said:
In happier times for the Fire Scout, a Naval Postgraduate School paper from 2010 that may be of some interest:
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Grey Havoc said:

Has the LCS and the DDG-1000n finally found a mission? - History, Politics And Current Affairs

www.tboverse.com
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Excellent question. The Zumwalts are slated to be Hypersonic missiles carriers. Anti-surface warfare.

I think they are being refit with the launchers now. Obviously the availability of the missiles is an issue.

The LCS seem to be used as OPCs and test beds. Show the flag. Chase an occasional drug smuggler.

They've been used to test a number of new technologies but I'm not aware of them deploying anywhere near, harms way..
 
Jimmo952 said:
Excellent question. The Zumwalts are slated to be Hypersonic missiles carriers. Anti-surface warfare.

I think they are being refit with the launchers now. Obviously the availability of the missiles is an issue.

The LCS seem to be used as OPCs and test beds. Show the flag. Chase an occasional drug smuggler.

They've been used to test a number of new technologies but I'm not aware of them deploying anywhere near, harms way..
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The LCS-2 class (Independence?) is usable as a cheap gator-freighter if the island they're going to has pier for them to use. The mission bay is big enough for an armored company if the Marines still used tanks.
 
Jimmo952 said:
Excellent question. The Zumwalts are slated to be Hypersonic missiles carriers. Anti-surface warfare.

I think they are being refit with the launchers now. Obviously the availability of the missiles is an issue.

The LCS seem to be used as OPCs and test beds. Show the flag. Chase an occasional drug smuggler.

They've been used to test a number of new technologies but I'm not aware of them deploying anywhere near, harms way..
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There is one in the Red Sea right now, I believe. Or was last week anyway.

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news.usni.org

I suspect they are using to goaltend against the Houthi surface drones that have been running around out there.
 
TomS said:
There is one in the Red Sea right now, I believe. Or was last week anyway.

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news.usni.org

I suspect they are using to goaltend against the Houthi surface drones that have been running around out there.
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Well that's interesting. That would be its first deployment into a hostile environment.

It will be interesting to hear what's is doing there. I imagine we will learn down the road.
 
Jimmo952 said:
Well that's interesting. That would be its first deployment into a hostile environment.

It will be interesting to hear what's is doing there. I imagine we will learn down the road.
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I don't think it's the first deployment to the 5th Fleet AOR, but a lot of that was relatively quiet until last year.
 
TomS said:
I don't think it's the first deployment to the 5th Fleet AOR, but a lot of that was relatively quiet until last year.
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I thought a couple of the monohulls were loaded with minesweeping gear and based in the Persian Gulf?
 
Scott Kenny said:
I thought a couple of the monohulls were loaded with minesweeping gear and based in the Persian Gulf?
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That was something they were talking about for next year (2025), using the trimarans. They have more flight deck space, which is factor for MCM.


The monohulls seem to have settled on the ASuW mission, and one was on the Gulf last year running various USVs.

www.cusnc.navy.mil

Littoral Combat Ship, Unmanned Systems Pair Up to Advance Lethality in the Middle East

U.S. Naval Forces Central Command (NAVCENT) continues advancing lethality at sea, utilizing the Freedom-class littoral combat ship USS Indianapolis (LCS 17) as a staging base and command center for a
www.cusnc.navy.mil

And I think one also deployed in 2022. Yep:

news.usni.org

Littoral Combat Ship USS Sioux City Now Operating in the Middle East - USNI News

In a first for the class, a Freedom-variant Littoral Combat Ship is now operating in the Persian Gulf. USS Sioux City (LCS-11) chopped into 5th Fleet on Saturday after operating in U.S. 6th Fleet for nearly a month. “Sioux City is operating in support of a newly established multinational task...
news.usni.org news.usni.org
 
Jimmo952 said:
Well that's interesting. That would be its first deployment into a hostile environment.

It will be interesting to hear what's is doing there. I imagine we will learn down the road.
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I guess it depends on how you define ‘harms way’ but freedoms were the only regular USN presence within the gulf and SoH area, countering Iranian attempts to interfere with shipping for months.
If that doesn’t count, then really no USN ship has gone in harm’s way since what? 2003 until 2016?

Aside from that at least one has been on MIO duty intercepting shipments of weapons and parts headed to the Houthis. Also they’ve been clearing OPBOXes for the CVNs ensuring there’s now small boat threat allowing the big deck to safely operate in the area.
 
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Several years ago, the USN chose not to publish it, but an LCS ‘sank’ 2 Burkes in exercises several years ago, and within the last several months an Indy stalked a PLAN task force and ‘exercised with them’ gathering quite a bit of useful data(specifics weren’t mentioned to me.)Another unclassified thing that the USN has chosen not to publicize.

The LCS is likely to turn out to be the Fletcher of any near future major naval conflicts the USN becomes involved in.
 
TomS said:
That was something they were talking about for next year (2025), using the trimarans. They have more flight deck space, which is factor for MCM.


The monohulls seem to have settled on the ASuW mission, and one was on the Gulf last year running various USVs.

www.cusnc.navy.mil

Littoral Combat Ship, Unmanned Systems Pair Up to Advance Lethality in the Middle East

U.S. Naval Forces Central Command (NAVCENT) continues advancing lethality at sea, utilizing the Freedom-class littoral combat ship USS Indianapolis (LCS 17) as a staging base and command center for a
www.cusnc.navy.mil

And I think one also deployed in 2022. Yep:

news.usni.org

Littoral Combat Ship USS Sioux City Now Operating in the Middle East - USNI News

In a first for the class, a Freedom-variant Littoral Combat Ship is now operating in the Persian Gulf. USS Sioux City (LCS-11) chopped into 5th Fleet on Saturday after operating in U.S. 6th Fleet for nearly a month. “Sioux City is operating in support of a newly established multinational task...
news.usni.org news.usni.org
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I’m not sure how many currently or when but I do believe there’s already more than 1 forward deployed.
I can double check with a buddy who is CO on an avenger how many are currently there.
 

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