Tzoli, Im curious which source you used for the Dutch Vickers design 767 of 1920 and are there more details or correspondance with the Dutch authorities?
The Java was launched in 1921 and commissioned in 1925, her sister ship Sumatra in 1920, commissioned in 1926 and the building of the Celebes even stopped and cancelled. The necessary budget was in 1919 only authorized if the Celebes was stopped. So there would be no chance to build another cruiser despite earlier plans.
Norman Friedman British Cruisers: Two-World Wars and After.
As I don't speak dutch I does not have any Dutch naval books on the subject. I only have what is Friedman wrote that this design was offered by Vickers in the early 1920's possibly as a proposal for further cruiser construction if the Dutch Parliament vote for naval expansion.
 
Norman Friedman British Cruisers: Two-World Wars and After.
As I don't speak dutch I does not have any Dutch naval books on the subject. I only have what is Friedman wrote that this design was offered by Vickers in the early 1920's possibly as a proposal for further cruiser construction if the Dutch Parliament vote for naval expansion.
Thx, I have Friedman in my possession and have a look in my notes and Dutch literature.
 
Tzoli, could you please post information on the Vickers light cruiser proposals for Estonia & Cuba?

Thanks.
 
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Hello, have you seen the design drawings of submarines "Vickers Export Design 1067" and "Vickers Export Design 1068"?
 
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I don't remember having seen any export submarine drawings.
 
Do you have any further information relating to the 1957 Dreadnought preliminary design, with 4 propellors?
 
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Do you have any further details of the small fleet aircraft carrier design 1954, the medium fleet aircraft carrier design 1954 or the medium fleet aircraft carrier design 1955?
 
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Rebuilding the Royal Navy by David K. Brown & George Moore:
The part about Nuclear Submarines, Dreadnought in particular:

A considerable number of propeller designs were tested at model scale at Haslar. The interaction between the flow over the hull and into the propeller affected both efficiency and noise. Power is lost due to friction of the water in the flow over the hull and much of this loss can be recovered if the flow is channelled through the propeller. In general the bigger the propeller the more efficient and quieter it would be, but the bigger propellers needed to run at very low rpm – the biggest model propeller had a full-scale diameter well over 30ft and ran at impossibly low speed.24 To our surprise we were past the optimum and a slightly smaller propeller would have been better.25 It had long been realised that a single propeller was more efficient than two but the redundancy of two shaft lines was initially preferred by operators in all navies.26 The success of uss Albacore made it clear that the advantages of the single shaft were overwhelming. A small retractable propulsor was fitted.27
26 There was even a four-shaft study with a propeller in each quadrant!
 
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From British Aircraft Carriers Design, Development and Service Histories - David Hobbs:
Much smaller carriers
Even before the termination of the 1952 project the DAW asked for studies to examine the cost and capability of carriers about the size of the 1942 light fleet carriers which had performed so well in Korean operations. The first of these depicted a ship capable of operating twenty-eight aircraft the size of the Supermarine N-113 Scimitar. A 6.5-degree angled deck would give the same landing area as that designed for the reconstructed Hermes, with four Mark 13 arrester wires on a 20,000-ton hull. A single steam catapult with 180ft stroke was positioned on the angled deck sponson to port,
and the small island was well inboard, allowing aircraft to taxi outboard of it. Although the hull was similar to that of the Colossus Class the design was proposed for new-build ships, not reconstructions, and machinery of greater power was to give them a maximum speed of 28 knots. The flight deck had large overhangs to port and starboard which allowed sufficient space for a deck park of twenty aircraft, which increased the overall width from the 112ft 6in of the earlier light fleet carriers to 144ft, 21 per cent of the ship’s length. Overall length remained 695ft. There was only one lift, 65ft long by 35ft wide, situated almost exactly amidships. It served two small hangars, one forward and one aft, each 125ft long, 50ft wide, 17ft 6in high and capable of taking four aircraft. The lift obtruded into the landing area and could not be used during aircraft recoveries. A typical air group was to comprise twelve Scimitars, twelve Sea Vixens and four AEW aircraft, with two small SAR helicopters.
The most interesting feature of the design was that it was intended to be ‘suitable for conversion to operate VTO [vertical take-off] aircraft’. These were an exciting prospect at the time, although no design was mature enough to offer the prospect of operational capability in under a decade. It was assumed that VTO aircraft would always land with their nose into the relative wind, but that the ship need not turn into wind for it to do so. A circle 72ft in diameter was projected at the centre of deck movement on which VTO aircraft would land and then taxi clear into the deck park, leaving room for the next aircraft to land seconds later. So that funnel smoke would not interfere with cross-deck landing, the design included two funnels, the one furthest from the landing circle being selected for use as appropriate. Details of how to mount masts, radar arrays and aerials on the small island were not worked out in detail but, viewed in hindsight, the design has more merit than the later Invincible Class, in which cross-deck landing was severely impractical but not impossible. Not all aircraft types would have become VTO at once, of course, and these ships might have offered a ‘crossover’ capability if they had retained their catapult and arrester wires, giving the latent ability to operate a mix of Kestrel/Sea Harrier/AV-8 and Gannet AEW aircraft with helicopters and legacy fighters such as the Sea Vixen, used for electronic attack.
Unfortunately, as things turned out, the design was not taken forward because VTO technology was considered to be too immature to justify the cost of investment and there was too little potential for strike warfare with large aircraft like the projected Blackburn NA-39, which was to become the Buccaneer. Like the 1952 carrier, this sketch was never given a formal name.
Undaunted by the rejection of the N-113/VTO convertible carrier, the DAW made another suggestion in late 1953, aimed at producing an inexpensive trade-protection carrier capable of operating the new generation of high-performance fighters. It would also be capable, when required, of embarking suitable aircraft to augment the strike fleet. Like the small carrier just described, the new sketch produced by DNC in February 1954 was based on the 1942 light fleet carrier hull, and there is evidence in their ships’ covers that consideration was given to converting some ships to this standard. The key to the operation of heavier and more powerful aircraft was acceptance of the fact that they could not be launched and recovered at the same time. A landing area angled 2 degrees to port was to be offset slightly to port of the centreline, with its sponson’s weight balanced by a long sponson on the starboard, giving room for a deck park around the new island structure in Fly 2. Two new lifts stressed for heavier aircraft would have been installed closer together than those in the 1942 design; the after one was forward of the four Mark 13 arrester wires. A new steam catapult with 180ft stroke was projected for the starboard side of Fly 1, with the catapult aircraft line-up equipment (CALE) gear aft of it, level with and to starboard of the forward lift. Both lifts obtruded into the landing area and needed to be up during a recovery; the forward lift needed to be up during catapult launches. Some space on the starboard side of Fly 1 was available for use as a deck park during recoveries, but the angle was not great enough to make much of it available. The only defensive armament would have been twin Mark 5 Bofors mountings, one sited forward and aft of the port and starboard sponsons. The island, masts and radar arrays were not worked out in detail, but would probably have resembled smaller versions of those with which the 1943 light fleet carriers were completed at about the same time. The air group would have been about twenty, with a smaller deck park than the earlier concept but a larger hangar.

Medium aircraft carrier studies
Drawings were produced by the DNC to show that the new generation of aircraft could be operated from a ship ‘grown’ to about 24,000 tons from the 1942 light fleet carrier design. He argued, however, that a larger hull would give a steadier flight deck, would be less cramped, would have better sighting opportunities for radar and other essential equipment, better aircraft handling and control arrangements and, not least, allow space to absorb new, as yet unknown, generations of aircraft. In November 1954 a design study for a 28,000-ton carrier was presented to the Admiralty Board for comment. It had an angled deck and was expected to have a similar aircraft complement to the redesigned Hermes, at about thirtyeight aircraft. Again costs were constrained by limiting the defensive armament to four twin Mark 5 Bofors mountings, as there was insufficient space for Mark 6 twin 3in mountings. Machinery developing 100,000shp on two shafts was to deliver 28 knots at deep load six months out of dock. The DNC did not regard this as a balanced design, and at their meeting in December 1954 the Board described the design as ‘too big for a small carrier and too small for a big carrier’. It was not taken further.
Subsequent interest centred on the design of a larger carrier of about 35,000 tons, the same as the reconstructed Victorious. By 1955 this was considered to be the smallest ship that could operate modern aircraft in effective numbers, and was described by the DNC as ‘in effect a general-purpose carrier which, while not being so large as to be wasted in the trade protection role, could carry a considerable strike force as an alternative when required’. A typical air group could include up to forty-eight aircraft. The larger tonnage led to a three-shaft arrangement being proposed, developing 135,000shp to produce 30 knots six months out of dock. Defensive armament was to be a mix of Mark 6 twin 3in/70-calibre mountings and six-barrelled Bofors. The design underwent continuing development, and three ships appeared in the 1959-60 Long-term costing, for completion between 1970 and 1973. Initially they were intended to cost £18 million each, but as the detailed design evolved the weight increased and more equipment was added. From the time Lord Mountbatten became First Sea Lord in 1954 he took a close interest in the design and insisted that anti-aircraft missiles be added, as it appeared unlikely that the Admiralty would gain funding for a class of missile cruisers intended for task force defence. The design incorporated 2,700 tons of armoured plate and eventually grew to a deep-load displacement of 45,000 tons. These ships were never formally cancelled, but the requirement was eventually superseded by aircraft carrier Project 35, which became known as CVA-01. Despite searches of the relevant ships’ covers at Woolwich, no sketch drawing of the design has been located.
 
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From British Aircraft Carriers Design, Development and Service Histories - David Hobbs:
There is a new Commonwealth line coming to World of Warships. I wonder if you could find some truth to their designs based on Export or Royal Navy designs?
 
There is a new Commonwealth line coming to World of Warships. I wonder if you could find some truth to their designs based on Export or Royal Navy designs?
I highly doubt that. Both Wargaming and Lesta long ago dropped any pretense of being "historically accurate". Their new lines are mostly "cheap and dirty" reuse of already modelled elements under vague "what-if" justification. They are more concerned about making new content cheap and fast, than accurate.
 
I highly doubt that. Both Wargaming and Lesta long ago dropped any pretense of being "historically accurate". Their new lines are mostly "cheap and dirty" reuse of already modelled elements under vague "what-if" justification. They are more concerned about making new content cheap and fast, than accurate.
Even though most of their over sized versions of the County class are fictional, they would definitely suffer from the same issues the actual county class had.
 
Displacement: 19.750tons standard
Dimensions: 155,45 (pp) x 166,72 (wl) x 25,3 x 7,31 meters
Speed: 40km/h (21,5 knots)
Armour: 235mm Belt
Armament:
5x2 305mm/45 likely Armstrong Mark W
20x1 120mm/45 likely Armstrong Mark FF
10x1 76mm/50 likely Armstrong Mark ZZ
3x1 533mm Torpedoes

I think it would look like a slightly smaller Erin / Reşadiye or smaller Canada / Almirante Latorre / with 12" guns rather 13,5" and 4,7" Casemates rather 6"
Engine likely as of Erin which allows the extra half knots of speed due to the smaller displacement and shorter hull
 
There is a new Commonwealth line coming to World of Warships. I wonder if you could find some truth to their designs based on Export or Royal Navy designs?
Well, their Encounter is based on historical heavy cruiser proposal from Australian Cockatoo Island shipyard... very loosely based, and absolutely overtiered (County-equivalent design from early 20's on a higher tier than USS Baltimore, seriously, WG?). Auckland is also very loosely based on British Admiral-class cruiser studies from 1940 (it's basically copypaste of WG's Albemarle, which IIRC uses Neptune-class hull, of all things).
And Cerberus... well, British 12-gun "treaty" cruiser designs existed IRL, but this thing is about as far away from them as you can get.
And the rest of WoWS Commonwealth tree are historical ships... except Port Jackson, which was copy-pasted from Weymouth just because WG was too lazy to draw HMAS Adelaide or any other historical Australian Town-class.
 
Well, their Encounter is based on historical heavy cruiser proposal from Australian Cockatoo Island shipyard... very loosely based, and absolutely overtiered (County-equivalent design from early 20's on a higher tier than USS Baltimore, seriously, WG?). Auckland is also very loosely based on British Admiral-class cruiser studies from 1940 (it's basically copypaste of WG's Albemarle, which IIRC uses Neptune-class hull, of all things).
And Cerberus... well, British 12-gun "treaty" cruiser designs existed IRL, but this thing is about as far away from them as you can get.
And the rest of WoWS Commonwealth tree are historical ships... except Port Jackson, which was copy-pasted from Weymouth just because WG was too lazy to draw HMAS Adelaide or any other historical Australian Town-class.
Honestly, I like the look of Cerberus design.
 
The expensive way of dealing with this is to buy all of Friedmans' books on RN warships, but even that won't cover everything.
Copyright prevents (I trust) extensive posting here.
I've scratched the surface with several articles for Warship and a book on cruisers which has pretty comprehensive basic data but very few illustrations. (compare the detail of my 1054 response with Tzoli's copy from Friedman's book - which should be acknowledged.
As for 1053 and 1054 see attachment. I guess this is an example of Vickers "shooting off spontaneous offers to various countries?"
How about Estonia light cruiser design
 
Venezuelan 1947-58 Naval Plan Cruiser.

A new found light cruiser for Venezuela seems bigger than anything mentioned on Friedman.
The details are part of a massive investigation by a local researcher and will be published soon.
Looking at the photograph I wondered if it was a main battery made up of 4x2 152mm in a Mark N5 version. There was a hint that this might be true, but until publication we will not have an official answer.
View: https://imgur.com/3LHAxK7

3LHAxK7.png

For more details, the previous figure belongs to this 1956 plate, given as recognition to Marcos Pérez Jiménez (former President of Venezuela, 1952-53) for his management of the new structure of the Navy.
View: https://imgur.com/bdhidPY

bdhidPY.png

Regards
 
Hawke, Duncan does in fact seen to look like the G3 they claim. The specs are obviously tailored to game tiers etc. The positive for WOWS is that it did get me interested and I now have books on the topic!
Idk if someone mentioned this to you or if you found out but Hawke is a shortened K3 with her 18" guns reduced to 16"
 
Thurston 1926 Design / Vickers Design 892 - 1926
Do you have some info about this one (aside from specs in your Excel database)? I looked in Friedman, but didn't find any mentions of this ship.

Oh, and just to kill two birds with one stone — maybe you have something on Lillicrap's 1932 "Geneva sketches" (battlecruisers of 18500t with 6×254mm and 20000t with 6×305mm)? Because again, Friedman does not mention them (or I failed a spot check on them), and the only source mentioning them that I currently have found is Shipbucket forum (to be fair, that's where I stumbled on these two designs in the first place).
 
Will check what can I find but these are quite rare designs
 
The 1926 Thurston design is a reduced version of Nelson, all armament cut to 2/3rd of the original:
2x3 16"
4x2 6"
4x1 4,7"
On 26.500tons

 
Thank you. Thurston's ship is a cute little one)
On Lillicrap designs, that's not much more than I've found myself... well, good luck finding originals. If they exist somewhere in the first place.
 
Nuclear Submarines:
Dreadnought preliminary with 4 propellers in each quadrant - 1957?
Was about to ask about this one, then I found the reply.

Rebuilding the Royal Navy by David K. Brown & George Moore:
The part about Nuclear Submarines, Dreadnought in particular:
Very little info.

But I think they might be surprised at what a viable efficient speed would turn out to be. No, you can't turn a screw at like 4-5RPM because the shaft seals start sticking and making a hell of a racket. But you can turn one under 200rpm and still make over 25 knots!
 
Tzoli, hey, let me say first, thanks you for your lists notes.

Latam comments

Argentine Aircraft Carriers

  • 1947 Vickers-Armstrong - Colossus simile. 120mm secondaries + AA.
  • 1947 Vickers-Armstrong - Colossus simile. 88mm secondaries + AA.

Argentine Battleships
  • 1901 Vickers 70 - Found in the argentine archives.
  • 1902 Vickers 70A - """""
  • 1902 Vickers 70B - """""
  • 1902 Vickers 70C - """""
  • 1902 Vickers 70D - """""
  • 1906 Coventry Syndicate A // Friedman and "The Battleship Builders. Constructing and Arming British Capital Ships" page 268.
  • 1906 Coventry Syndicate B // Friedman and "The Battleship Builders. Constructing and Arming British Capital Ships" page 268.
  • 1907 Vickers 312 - "Dimensions of Design 312 were 525ft x 87ft 6in x 25ft 6in; speed was 21 knots (27,500 IHP). Armour thickness was not given. A price was quoted by telegram on 24 May 1909, but the position of the design in the Vickers notebook suggests that it was first offered in 1907" // Friedman.
  • 1908 Vickers 387 - "Designs 387 was a further 510-footer, armament unspecified" // Friedman.
  • 1908 Vickers 389B - Must check.
  • 1908 Vickers 403 - "In Design 403 the guns, all on the centreline, were slightly differently spaced" // Friedman.
  • 1908/9 Brown (Coventry Syndicate) A - 12 (6x2) 305mm/50cs + 12, 14 or 16 152mm/50cs + 4 TT. "The parallel bids by the Coventry Syndicate were dated 27 February 1909, with revised bids submitted on 25 October (...) Johnston and Buxton unfortunately give no details of armament, only length and speed; the bids were designated A to G." // Friedman.
  • 1908/9 Brown (Coventry Syndicate) B - """"".
  • 1908/9 Brown (Coventry Syndicate) C - """"".
  • 1908/9 Brown (Coventry Syndicate) D - """"".
  • 1908/9 Brown (Coventry Syndicate) E - """"".
  • 1908/9 Brown (Coventry Syndicate) F - """"".
  • 1908/9 Brown (Coventry Syndicate) G - """"".
  • 1908/9 Beardmore (Coventry Syndicate?) Alternative 1 - 12 (6x2) 305mm/50cs + 12 (12x1) 152mm/50cs + 3 TT.
  • 1908/9 Beardmore (Coventry Syndicate?) Alternative 2 - 12 (6x2) 305mm/50cs + 14 (14x1) 152mm/50cs + 3 TT.
  • 1908/9 Beardmore (Coventry Syndicate?) Alternative 3 - 12 (6x2) 305mm/50cs + 16 (16x1) 152mm/50cs + 3 TT.
  • 1908/9 Thames (Coventry Syndicate?) - 12 (6x2) 305mm/50cs + 12 (12x1) 152mm/50cs + 5 TT.
  • 1910-1911 Vickers & Armstrong - Several designs without identification.
  • 1912 Armstrong 690A - Brazilian Rio de Janeiro (S: "Battleship Diplomacy in South America. 1905-1925" page 45 - Livermore SW).

Argentine Cruisers
  • 1900 Vickers 35A - "a cost quote to Argentina for the later Design 35A (8600-ton protected cruiser, 350ft × 65ft × 24ft, two twin 9.2in, twelve 7.5in, fourteen 14pdr QF, 20kts on 13,500 IHP) was dated 19 December 1900. Prices were given for the ship with either Belleville or cylindrical boilers" // Friedman.
  • 1909 Vickers 415 - Cruiser-Battleship. "The Vickers notebook has several blank pages marked ‘Battleship for Argentina’ (Designs 415, 420, 421, 422, 423, 424, 425 ‘Cruiser Battleship for Argentina’ but without any data)" // Friedman.
  • 1909 Vickers 420 - """"".
  • 1909 Vickers 421 - """"".
  • 1909 Vickers 422 - """"".
  • 1909 Vickers 423 - """"".
  • 1909 Vickers 424 - """"".
  • 1909 Vickers 425 - Cruiser-Battleship. "425, 426, 427 cruiser-battleships for Argentina, particular blank" // Murfin.
  • 1909 Vickers 426 - """"".
  • 1909 Vickers 427 - """"".
  • 1912 Vickers 587 - 8 152mm/50cs // "Directory British Cruiser Designs 1860-1960 page 83" Murfin.
  • 1924 Swan Hunter 241 - 7 152mm/50cs // "Directory British Cruiser Designs 1860-1960 page 74" Murfin.
  • 1924 Vickers 1084 - 7 (3x2+1x1) 152mm/50cs // "Directory British Cruiser Designs 1860-1960 page 79" Murfin & Friedman. It is not a chilean ship.
  • 1928 Scott - 152mm/50cs // "Directory British Cruiser Designs 1860-1960 page 74" Murfin.
  • 1947 Vickers-Armstrong 1124 - 12 (4x3) 152mm/50cs (as La Argentina) + 120mm/45cs (as Buenos Aires). Stock cruiser; Friedman published this scheme as "1124A" which is incorrect.
  • 1947 Vickers-Armstrong 1124A - 12 (4x3) 152mm/50cs (as La Argentina) + 120mm/45cs (as Buenos Aires). 2 machine room, lenght and protection variants. Final cruiser design; Friedman did not publish this scheme.
  • 1947 Vickers-Armstrong 1124B - 12 (4x3) 152mm (as La Argentina) + 88mm (new design). 2 machine room, lenght and protection variants. Final cruiser design.

Argentine Destroyers
  • 1909 Thornycroft S4281 - 2 (2x1) 102mm.
  • 1909 Thornycroft S4319 - 4 (2x2) 100mm.
  • 1947 Vickers-Armstrong - 120mm/45cs (as Buenos Aires gun).

Argentine Submarines
  • 1924 Vickers 1088 - Submarine Minelayer. "A companion minelayer (Design 1088) would have displaced 1200/1550 tons (260ft x 24ft mld x 18ft 6in hull depth to main hull x 14ft 9in). Speed would have been 15/7 knots and surface endurance 10,000nm at 8 knots. The submarine would have had four bow 21in torpedo tubes and two mine ejectors aft, as in wartime German minelayers, with forty mines. In addition she would have had one 4in and two machine guns capable of HA fire" // Friedman.
  • 1925 Vickers 1125 - Submarine. "Vickers seems to have offered (...) a conventional submarine (Design 1125, probably not the 1125 offered to Greece)". "The first Vickers design offered to Turkey may have been No. 1125 (26 July 1924), a small 330/495-ton (192ft x 15ft 5in x 10ft 8in x 8ft 10⅞in) submarine capable of 13/8.5 knots, with an endurance of 2500nm at 9 knots surfaced and 65nm at 5 knots submerged. Armament was four bow and two stern tubes, of which two bow and two stern tubes were above water. There would also be a single machine gun" // Friedman.
  • 1926 Vickers 2916 - Submarine. "The Vickers Estimate Book shows (as its No 2916) a submarine of L 11 type for Argentina (22 September 1926) without any Vickers design number. This may have been a proposal to complete a cancelled submarine. This submarine would have been somewhat larger than Design 855" // Friedman.

Argentine Notes
  • Several Submarine, Cruisers, Battleships offers from Armstrong, Vickers, Brown, Swan Hunter, Cammel Laird, Beardmore, Scott, Fairfield, Yarrow, White, Thornycroft and Leslie in raw documentation.
  • Argentina does not list "Conventry Syndicate" as a builder.

Brazilian Battleships
  • 1906 Armstrong 439A & Vickers 188A - 12 (6x2) 254mm/50cs cancelled Minas Geraes class. // Warship International 1994, 31, 3, page 221.
  • 1906 Armstrong 475 - 8 (4x2) 305mm // Murfin.
  • 1910 Armstrong 1 - 14 (7x2) 305mm/45cs or 12 (6x2) 356mm/45cs. Sources mix number of guns!!! Seems to be the Tzoli "Armstrong Export Design A for Brazil - 1911".
  • 1910 Armstrong 2 - 8 (4x2) 406mm/40cs or 12 (6x2) 356mm/45cs. Sources mix number of guns!!! Seems to be the Tzoli "Armstrong Export Design B for Brazil - 1911".
  • 1910 Armstrong 3 - 8 (4x2) 406mm/40cs or 10 (5x2) 381mm/42cs or 8 (4x2) 381mm/42cs. Sources mix number of guns!!! Seems to be the Tzoli "Armstrong Export Design C for Brazil - 1911".
  • 1910 Armstrong 4 - 18 (6x3) 305mm/45cs or 10 (5x2) 305mm/45cs. Sources mix number of guns!!! Seems to be the Tzoli "Armstrong Export Design D for Brazil - 1911".
  • Tzoli "Armstrong Export Design A for Brazil - 1911" seems to be one of the previous.
  • 1910 Armstrong 642 - Must check!!!
  • 1913 Armstrong A - 12 (6x2) 356mm/45cs.
  • 1913 Armstrong B - 10 (5x2) 381mm/45cs.
  • 1913 Armstrong C - 10 (5x2) 406mm/45cs.
  • 1913 Armstrong D - 12 (6x2) 381mm/45cs.

Brazilian Cruisers
  • 1903 Vickers 365 - Seems to be brazilean.
  • 1906 Armstrong 470 - 16 (8x2) 254mm // Murfin.
  • 1923 Vickers 894A - 6 (3x2) 203mm/45cs // Murfin.
  • 1938 Vickers 1058 - 6 (3x2) 203mm/50cs // Warship 2010.
  • 1938 Vickers 1059 - 6 (3x2) 203mm/50cs // Warship 2010.
  • 1939 Vickers - 152mm/50cs. Upscaled 1076 ("La Argentina") // Friedman & Murfin.

Brazilian Destroyers
  • 1954 Thornycroft 1888 - "Thornycroft Export Design 1788 for Brazil - 1954" typo?
  • 1954 Thornycroft-White-Yarrow 1737 (and derivates) - Are brazilian offers (not chilean).

Brazilian Submarines
  • 1919 Vickers 784 - Submarine. 6 x 53cm // Friedman.
  • 1923 Vickers 1011 - Submarine "A Vickers design list shows Design 1011, a 740-ton 205ft submarine armed with two 3in guns and six 18in torpedo tubes – something like an ‘L’-class – offered to Brazil in 1923".
  • 1923 Vickers 1012 - Submarine // Friedman.
  • 1924 Vickers 1153 - Submarine // Friedman.
  • 1925 Vickers 879 (2773) - Submarine. 6 x 53cm // Friedman.
  • 1932 Vickers 1060 - Submarine minelayer // Friedman.
  • 1932 Vickers 1061 - Submarine minelayer // Friedman.
  • 1932 Vickers 1062 - Submarine // Friedman.

Brazilian Gunboats
  • 1903 Armstrong 354 - As norwegian ships.

Chilean Cruisers
  • 1919 Vickers 758A - I keep insisting that it is Chilean :p
  • 1937 Vickers 1094 - Seems to be chilean.
  • 1946(1942) Vickers 1122 - Seems to be chilean or argentinean.

Mexican Cruisers
  • 1907 Vickers 303 - 152mm.
  • 1907 Vickers 304 - 120mm.
  • 1907 Vickers 308 - As Peruvian Vic.170.
  • 1923 Vickers 819 - 203mm+...

Peruvian Cruisers
  • 1905 Armstrong 331 / Vickers 170 - Same design.

Peruvian Destroyers
  • 1967 Fairfield A - 4x120mm.
  • 1967 Fairfield B - 3x120mm.
  • 1967 Fairfield C - 3x127mm.
  • 1967 Fairfield D - 3x127mm.

Uruguay
  • "Armstrong Export Design 374 for Uruguay - 1904". In "British Battleships. 1906-1946" it is mentioned that "Design 374 carried ten 12in and sixteen 6in on 19,700tons (525ft x 83ft 6in x 25ft 6in; 28,000 IHP for 22 knots)". There is no way Uruguay could wish to buy something like this; it appears to be a Russian design.

Venezuelan Cruisers
  • +1947 Vickers - 152mm/50cs 4x2 MkV on MkXXVI? Unpublished by Friedman.
  • "1955 Vickers 1957"? What is that!?
  • "1957 Vickers 1957B"? What is that!?

Miscellaneous
  • 1912 Armstrong 740 - 12 (6x2) 356mm/45cs Smells as the British alternative of the American Superdreadnoughts for Argentina. Not confirmed!
  • 1926 Thurston 892 - 6 (2x3) 406mm Battleship four South American Nations (& Others).

I will update this post later.
 
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Any data on the designs you listed?
As for the Stock Cruiser Variant B with 88mm AA guns, that is a weird caliber for 1947, which nation would supply it for the design?

In the Peruvian section. What is Fai stand for?
In the 1950's the Thornycroft-White-Yarrow trio offered designs for export.
 
Any data on the designs you listed?
As for the Stock Cruiser Variant B with 88mm AA guns, that is a weird caliber for 1947, which nation would supply it for the design?

In the Peruvian section. What is Fai stand for?
In the 1950's the Thornycroft-White-Yarrow trio offered designs for export.
I will update this post during the next few days or weeks. Due to health reasons and the time required for the check-up, I was not able to do it immediately.
If you want, we can review the above mentioned documents on a case-by-case basis. I generally have a copy of the supporting information, although there are cases where the copy of the documentation is raw and I have to search and reread it.



The Vickers-Armstrong 1124B design from 1947 with a 88mm secondary battery was for Argentina.
For more details, both the 1124 and 1124A designs have 12 (6x2) 120mm/45cs cannons (with similar characteristics to the Mark IX* of the Buenos Aires class) as a dual-function secondary battery.
The 1124B design has 20 (10x2) 88mm cannons as a dual-function secondary battery (new design, N°44690; which were also offered to the aircraft carriers for Argentina).
In addition, the 1124B has 6 (6x1) 40mm machine-guns as an anti-aircraft battery.
I apologize because I cannot share the plans, since I am not the main researcher on the subject. Source:
View: https://imgur.com/MWWLeyx

or
MWWLeyx.png




Peruvian Fairfield offers.
View: https://imgur.com/BtJhcwr

or
BtJhcwr.png

View: https://imgur.com/P4cGa2N

or
P4cGa2N.png

View: https://imgur.com/gqcaPFE

or
gqcaPFE.png

Source: "Warship 2013" pages 166-168.



In Venezuelan terms, the Naval Plan went from 1947 to 1958.
The mentioned 8 (4x2) 152mm/50cs is circa 1956 (because the plate is from 1956).
It is a very nice detail to see that Venezuela began its interest in cruisers with traditional guns and ended it in cruisers with guns and missile launchers. Without a doubt, post-war technology advanced rapidly.

Regards
 
Tzoli, hey, let me say first, thanks you for your lists notes.

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I did a minor update on the Brazilean faction.

I think it is worth mentioning that there is sometimes confusion between Armstrong's battleship designs for Brazil. I notice that the preliminary designs of 1910 (read "1", "2", "3" and "4") are sometimes confused with those of 1913 (read "A", "B", "C", and "D"). The available bibliography sometimes does not help.
The 1910 batch ("1", "2", "3" and "4") consists of battleship designs that include 12-, 14-, 15- and 16-inch guns as main batteries, in varying quantities, for Brazil's third acquisition, to be named "Rio de Janeiro". There was speculation that Argentina would buy a third battleship with 14 12- or 14-inch guns. In response to this, Brazil ordered the 14-inch "653" design, but soon changed it for the 12-inch "690A", which it would sell in 1913 near its completion.
In the 1913 batch ("A", "B", "C", and "D"), there are designs for battleships that include 14-, 15- and 16-inch main batteries, in varying quantities, for Brazil's third acquisition, to be named "Riachuelo". The acquisition of Dreadnoughts (12-inch) is no longer contemplated, but rather Super-Dreadnoughts and a caliber that would far exceed the next Argentinean step. It is true that between 1910 and 1913 there was a lobby to buy the fourth battleship, keeping or not the third battleship, but it was not until 1913 that it was decided to have a larger caliber than the Minas Geraes battleships (the first two, with 12-inch guns).
Honestly, the purchase order for the "Riachuelo" in 1914 is very strange, since the arms race had been killed by diplomacy and the sale of the "Rio de Janeiro" in 1913.
 

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