Kyushu J7W1 Shinden/J7W2 Shinden-kai

[Stargazer]

Maybe it's just my fantasy, but I can't help thinking that a contra-rotating version of the Shiden with good engines would have been a formidable opponent to the Americans!!

 

[blackkite]

Hi! We can find some Shinden-kai models or drawings in Internet site.
This is one model. But it's not necessary to have two types of air intake.
Original Shinden have two types of air intake. One is for engine cooling. Another one is for supercharger.
But Shinden-kai needs only one type of air intake for jet engine.
http://www9.plala.or.jp/fukugiya/72-081-shinden-jet.htm

 

[blackkite]

I think these models have rather proper shape air intake.
Shinden-kai was planned to have Ne-130 jet engine.(Thrust : 900kg, equal to about 3000hp)

 

[Justo Miranda]

My opinion

 

[blackkite]

Many thanks Justo. Excellent!
I want to see front view. How about adding air intake boundary layer fence? Or how about bottom drawing's intake shape.

 

[borovik]

An artistе impression (from the well-known firm))
/ very limited edition model series /

 

[Triton]

Speculative painting of Kyushu J7W2 Shinden-kai by Kow Yokoyama for Hasegawa model kit.

Source:
http://fighters.forumactif.com/t35896p15-shinden-1-48-fini

 

[blackkite]

Hi! NE-130 engine. Sorry for low quality.
Diameter : 850mm, Length : 3850mm, Weight : 900kg, Manufacturer : Ishikawajima Shibaura turbine.

 

[Justo Miranda]

In my opinion no fences, please see Ohka and Ne-20 comparative stuff

 

[blackkite]

Thanks Justo. Super!!
Japanese technology was rather low level at the day. ;D

 

[Taranov]

:

 

[blackkite]

Thanks another opinion. Splendid drawing.
Engine : Ishikawa Ne-440??

 

[Taranov]

Thanks another opinion. Splendid drawing.
Engine : Ishikawa Ne-440??

Speculative data ;D

 

[blackkite]

Officially there are no jet powered Shinden drawing. Name of Shinden-kai is not official,too.
Kyushu Hikoki did not start jet powered Shinden design until the end of the war.
Engineer of Kyushu hikoki(Kunitake Kiyohara, section submanager of No.1 design section of Kyushu Hikoki) said so.
But it's true that the IJN ordered Kyushu Hikoki to design Shinden considering future turbo jet engine installation.
Engine was Ne-130, thrust 900kg, estimated jet powered Shinden's maximum speed with Ne-130 engine was 420kt(780km/h).
The IJN planned that jet powered Shinden use JATO when take off.
Shinden had laminar flow wing.(Maximum thickness located 45% wing chord.)
Sourec : Aireview magazine, extra number, Unknown military aircraft development(Vol.1/2) page 51, March 1999, ISBN4-87357-049-2 C9453

 

[blackkite]

Hi! Enjoy.
http://gunsight.jp/c/shinden-3D.htm
http://www.zoukeimura.co.jp/en/products/sws01_shinden_cl.html

 

[blackkite]

Shinden's engine had 18 exhaust nozzles.
4 nozzles exhaust gas were used for thrust.(Located upper part of the engine.)
8 nozzles exhaust gas were used for ejector(jet pump) which take oil cooler cooling air. (Located middle part of the engine.)
6 nozzles exhaust gas were used for ejector which exhaust engine room hot air.(Located bottom part of the engine.)
Of course engine was cooled by mainly forced cooling air by forced cooling fan which located behind the engine.
You can see oil cooler air intake in the 4th picture.(After end of the fuselage)

 

[windswords]

We hope Shinden restoration in the U.S.Washington D.C. B)

I have always wanted to see two aircraft restored and put on display at the Smithsonian: The Horten Ho-229 and the J7W1. If they were done I would take a vacation to Washington DC just to see those two planes.

 

[blackkite]

We hope Shinden restoration in the U.S.Washington D.C. B)

I have always wanted to see two aircraft restored and put on display at the Smithsonian: The Horten Ho-229 and the J7W1. If they were done I would take a vacation to Washington DC just to see those two planes.

Thanks windswords! Me,too.
I used to visit Fort Lauderdale and Miami. Florida was worm in winter.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C2ifDWxkVGs

 

[blackkite]

Hi! 3 side view. Please push flag of each country.
http://www.airwar.ru/other/draw_fw.html

 

[Basil]

Blackkite, thanks for the detailed pictures of the exhaust / ejector cooling system of the Shinden. It's hard to get these informations as a non japanese speaking person.

 

[blackkite]

Blackkite, thanks for the detailed pictures of the exhaust / ejector cooling system of the Shinden. It's hard to get these informations as a non japanese speaking person.

Hi! I think it's my responsibility. Sorry not enough.
I realize Shinden shape demerit one more.
It's hard to cool engine and oil when ground engine test, because engine and oil cooler are not exposed high speed propeller after stream.
Perhaps it's one of the reason why Shinden had a forced cooling fan and ejector type oil coolers.

And R/C model.
http://homepage2.nifty.com/96fighter/E_scr_J7W1.htm

 

[blackkite]

Hi! Same scale.
Bottom one is Shinden, Manshu Ki-98 and Tachikawa Ki-94

 

[blackkite]

Hi!
Japanese projected(at the end of the war) interceptors data.

 

[blackkite]

Hi!
Senden arrangement.

①Engine ②Oil cooler ③Engine mounting ④Fuselage frame ⑤Forced cooling fan ⑥Extended propeller shaft ⑦Fuselage longitudinal frame ⑧30mm cannon ⑨30mm cannon cartridge ⑩20mm cannon ⑪20mm cannon cartridge ⑫Fuel tank ⑬Front gear ⑭wireless apparatus⑮Propeller breakaway mechanism ⑯Propeller

Senden was cancelled in October 1944 due to MK9D engine under power, failure of Vulkan coupling development or failure of Vulkan coupling application to MK9D engine and extended propeller shaft trouble.
Senden’s engine cooling problem was clearly solved by the test (9 months) using MK9D engine and full scale fuselage model. Horizontal tail stabilizer vibration was clearly solved by the wind tunnel test and the design change.
(Source : Senden’s chief designer Eitaro Sato’s report)
I think Shinden received some feedback from Senden’s failure.
For example, MK9D engine modification(the first stage supercharger design including Vulkan coupling, oil cooler concept and extended propellre shaft design). Don't you think so?
Shinden’s first stage supercharger shape is different from Senden’s one.
Shinden’s first stage supercharger had twin impeller, but fromSenden’s arrangement drawing, I feel Senden’s first stage supercharger had a single impeller.

 

[Nick Sumner]

This is great information Blackite - thank you!

May I just ask - the 'Vulkan Coupling', this was Daimler Benz technology adapted by Mitsubishi for their engines? If Mitsubishi couldn't get the technology to work could they have used a more conventional approach to two speed supercharger control?

 

[blackkite]

This is great information Blackite - thank you!

May I just ask - the 'Vulkan Coupling', this was Daimler Benz technology adapted by Mitsubishi for their engines?

Hi Nick!
I think that's right. Perhaps Mitsubishi got Vulkan coupling technology from Kawasaki. Kawasaki already applied this technology to Hien's Ha-40 engine. The merit of using Vulkan coupling is high climb rate. It was very important characteristic for the interceptor.
If only Vulkan coupling was adjusted properly, HA-40 engine worked well at the day.

 

[Justo Miranda]

Similar comparative german project here

 

[blackkite]

Wow thanks Justo!
The German is one of the our best teacher in the past, now and in the future.
The engine was liquid cooling double array radial engine BMW803. B)
The radiator was located behind the big forced cooling fan.

 

[hesham]

Similar comparative german project here

What was the last two aircraft?, Focke Wulf projects or not .

 

[chuck4]

Is there any provision for the pilot to avoid the props during bailout?

 

[Justo Miranda]

Focke Wulf Jäger projekt mit BMW 803 , and Heinkel "Kartusche" ejector seat.

 

[windswords]

Is there any provision for the pilot to avoid the props during bailout?

If you look at one of the the diagrams posted by Blackkite it refers to number 15 as "Propeller breakaway mechanism". Maybe it's some kind of explosive charge to blow off the prop so the pilot can bail out.

 

[blackkite]

Hi! Hasegawa's Shinden model.

 

[blackkite]

Shinden’s main wing was a laminar flow wing, maximum thickness located 45% wing chord.
Wing root and wing tip angle of attack was 0 degree while wing middle position's angle of attack was 3 degee.
Front wing area was 10% of main wing area.
Front wing span and wing chord were 1/3 of main wing.
Front wing aerodynamic effect to the main wing was small.
Front wing had leading edge slat and double flap (slotted flap + plain flap).
Double flap also had the function of elevator.
Angle of attack of front wing was 1 degree.

 

[blackkite]

Hi! Nice movie.
http://topwar.ru/19712-yaponskiy-perehvatchik-j7w-shinden-1943-1945gg.html

 

[blackkite]

If possible, please marge this topic.
And change the title. For example, "Kyushu J7W1 Shinden and Shinden-kai".
Thanks Jens.
http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,16984.0.html

 

[blackkite]

Hi!
Please watch products. And bottom movie.
http://www.zoukeimura.co.jp/en/index.html


And some pictures.

 

[blackkite]

Hi! Total 13 pages. Enjoy.
Please watch RC model crush scene in page 13.
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=642695

 

[robunos]

Two images of a Shinden-Kai model taken at Scale Model World on 10/11/2012...

cheers,
Robin.

 

[blackkite]

Hi! Kyushu's original drawing.(nose section)