Kamov Projects

[Gavin]

An alternative would be to lift the propeller out of the ramp traffic. Would add an additional couple of CV joints and a new tail structure . . .

Maybe we're overthinking it a little? What's the ground clearance for the tailrotor of, say, a Mi-17? And it works just fine with a rear ramp. If the Kamov's landing gear is tall enough, maybe the ground clearance would be enough?

 

[Jemiba]

... if the ramp is lowered, the rear prop is automatically tilted upwards ! ;D
Sorry for that !

IF the Ka-92, or another heli with this configuration and a rear ramp actually will
be built and IF the end user considers the risk higher, than for other helis, a system
that disengages and stops the prop, when the ramp is lowered on the ground may
be easier to ealise, I think.

 

[Abraham Gubler]

Maybe we're overthinking it a little? What's the ground clearance for the tailrotor of, say, a Mi-17? And it works just fine with a rear ramp. If the Kamov's landing gear is tall enough, maybe the ground clearance would be enough?

The bottom of the Mi-17's tailrotor is above the bottom edge of tailboom and can't be reached by a passer by unless they are trying to slam dunk a basket into the blade. On the Ka-92 the propeller blades are spinning right where anyone can casually walk on their way to the inviting rear ramp.

 

[Abraham Gubler]

... if the ramp is lowered, the rear prop is automatically tilted upwards !

That's a good idea, saving in a lot of structure weight from lifting the propeller clear. It would also direct the air flow from the propeller skywards so it wouldn't generate a dust cloud in dry areas.

IF the Ka-92, or another heli with this configuration and a rear ramp actually will
be built and IF the end user considers the risk higher, than for other helis, a system
that disengages and stops the prop, when the ramp is lowered on the ground may
be easier to ealise, I think.

Such a system would take time to brake the propeller and/or clutch it in and out. The CV joint with hydraulic actuator to swivel the propeller upwards is probably much easier. Doesn’t have to interfere with the complex art of spinning a blade for airscrew purposes.

 

[Matej]

Because for the helicopter with the coaxial rotors the pusher prop is usefull only for the forward flight, I cant see any good reason, why not to stop it even before landing.

 

[Abraham Gubler]

Because for the helicopter with the coaxial rotors the pusher prop is usefull only for the forward flight, I cant see any good reason, why not to stop it even before landing.

It provides both acceleration and deacceleration without having to change the pitch of the rotors (collective) so is very useful for controlling the helicopter in landing and takeoff. Also if you feather the propeller it will most likely still be spinning. Not as fast as if torque was running to it but fast enough to do some damage to a head, roll bar and the actual blade.

So you would have to build some kind of inflight capable brake to completely stop it before landing and lose much of the benefit of propeller for flight control. Jemiba’s constant velocity joint and hydraulic actuator would probably be simpler and keep the propeller in use throughout the flight profile.

 

[Jemiba]

Maybe it depends of the kind of use of such a helicopter. For civil use, it probably
is no problem at all, as the pax are only allowed to board/deboard, when rotor and
prop are stopped completely. And for military users, it would just be a certain drill
and maybe an additional flashing warning "BEWARE OF PROPELLERS" .
At least until the first claims for damages. :-\

 

[flateric]

I can't show them for now, but future Kamov projects for 2020 timeframe, namely Ka-65 military transport and assault UVK (Udarny Vertolyotny Kompleks = Strike Helicopter System) both have Ka-92-like pusher arrangement. Think of Ka-65 as mini-me Ka-92 and of UVK as of mix of Cheyenne and Ka-92 in terms of external appearance. Very aesthetically appealing design that would easily fit for Avatar movie.

 

[yasotay]

I can't show them for now, but future Kamov projects for 2020 timeframe, namely Ka-65 military transport and assault UVK (Udarny Vertolyotny Kompleks = Strike Helicopter System) both have Ka-92-like pusher arrangement. Think of Ka-65 as mini-me Ka-92 and of UVK as of mix of Cheyenne and Ka-92 in terms of external appearance. Very aesthetically appealing design that would easily fit for Avatar movie.

Please tell me I don't have to wait till 2015 before the concepts are releasable...

I suspect that like Sikorsky's X-2 aircraft the pusher prop will be stopped for ground operations. Indeed if you look at the Sikorsky video's of the first flight of the X-2 demonstrator the pusher is not even engaged. One assumes that Kamov is just as aware of the potential results of soldiers and high speed props. I am told that the X-2 does not need the pusher at all other than to accelerate it to higher speeds. Of course the pusher does present some interesting options with reverse thrust capability.

Displacing the thrusters to the side of the aircraft in ducts was the hallmark of the early Sikorsky CR rotorcraft. They still consider it a viable option for heavier rotorcraft but there is a weight penalty associated with putting them on the side of the aircraft. Twisting the rotor out of the way adds weight in a bad place (very back end of the helicopter) and complexity, but certainly would help reduce the chance of the pusher prop getting struck by dismounting personnel or equipment.

 

[Gavin]

. . . the chance of the pusher prop getting struck by dismounting personnel or equipment.

I'm going to suggest, again, that the height of the landing gear should be a consideration here. The Black Hawk's tail rotor, for example, has a ground clearance of 6 feet, 8 inches (I know it doesn't have a rear ramp, but I couldn't find this stat for any other helicopter . . . the point is, only NBA players have to worry about it). With the landing gear factored in, it doesn't seem implausible for the Kamov to offer a similar ground clearance, does it? Six feet, 8 inches would enough for a UAZ-469 to drive under it.

Besides, I agree that the blades are likely to be locked in place before landing.

 

[elmayerle]

A comparison with the tail rotor of an S-92 might be a more useful comparison since that does have a rear ramp.

 

[flateric]

I'm not shure, but UVK seems to have turbojet nozzle instead of pusher prop judging from murky presentation screenshot that I have

 

[yasotay]

. . . the chance of the pusher prop getting struck by dismounting personnel or equipment.

I'm going to suggest, again, that the height of the landing gear should be a consideration here. The Black Hawk's tail rotor, for example, has a ground clearance of 6 feet, 8 inches (I know it doesn't have a rear ramp, but I couldn't find this stat for any other helicopter . . . the point is, only NBA players have to worry about it). With the landing gear factored in, it doesn't seem implausible for the Kamov to offer a similar ground clearance, does it? Six feet, 8 inches would enough for a UAZ-469 to drive under it.

Besides, I agree that the blades are likely to be locked in place before landing.

To be sure extended landing gear would make it possible for the vehicles to move under the aircraft. Of course the penalty for that besides more weight for extended gear is that the center of gravity for the aircraft is higher. Of course an ability to kneel the forward gear would raise the tail even more.

It is not the vehicles or personnel who are the biggest issue around rotorcraft. It is the antenna on the vehicles that inevitably don't get tied down before approaching. Crewchiefs/ Flight Engineers will always stand well away from the helicopter to make sure they can stop vehicles before their antenna can mix with the rotor system.

A turbojet would be interesting, although I recall that it was not very efficient on the XH-59. That was thirty years ago however. Whatever it seems the world is about to push the rotorcraft speed envelope forward at least one hundred knots. Would be nice to have rotorcraft in the 21st Century that actually fly faster than a 1930's bi-plane.

 

[flateric]

ocassionally leaked another Ka-32-10 rendering from 2003

 

[yasotay]

Interesting to see the transition from the original concept to the current (?) design.

 

[flateric]

I can't show them for now

...and now I can - this is slide of Russian Helicopters presentation from Vzlet magazine
thanks to Eugeny Yerokhin for photo

 

[frank]

Neat little poster. What's the helo all the way to the right between the Mi-383 & Ka-65?

I can't show them for now

...and now I can - this is slide of Russian Helicopters presentation from Vzlet magazine
thanks to Eugeny Yerokhin for photo

 

[Jemiba]

"...and assault UVK (Udarny Vertolyotny Kompleks = Strike Helicopter System)"

 

[fightingirish]

Yeah, the Ka-58 2.0!!! ;D

 

[yasotay]

Yeah, the Ka-58 2.0!!! ;D

I assume that is a concept and not an actual aircraft at this point?

 

[donnage99]

From PAK-FA thread, but since its appropriate topic is here:

btw, Ka-58 was not 'so' far from real Kamov UVK Helicopter Strike System external shapes the same V-tail and faceting, at least

Regarding UVK, the picture you provided did not show a v-tail. It looks more like the tail from k-92.

I've lengthened the picture vertically to make it clearer.

 

[flateric]

not correct
Kamov UVK has V-tail and small keel surface beneath the tail cone
one of next AHS Vertiflite issues will (hopefully) have short article on UVK with official desktop model photos and Jens 3-views

 

[Jemiba]

.. something like that, I think:
(Hardly visible in the enlarged picture, got it wrong in the
first attempt, too : )

 

[Matej]

Looking at the pictures of Kamov UVK that I have, I cant resist to stop thinking about the Zvezda claim about its Ka-58 kit: "We cooperated with the manufacturer on that." It can be pure coincidence, but the similarity is striking.

 

[Jemiba]

I recommend the latest vertiflite issue with Flaterics article !

 

[boxkite]

I recommend the latest vertiflite issue with Flaterics article !

I've got my copy today . Excellent job by Flateric (words & photos) and Jemiba (drawings). It's HIGHLY recommended indeed.

 

[Antonio]

It's HIGHLY recommended indeed

No pdf edition available?

 

[Triton]

Three-view drawing of Kamov Ka-92.

Model of Kamov Ka-92.

Source:
http://www.testpilots.ru/blogs/tag/ka-92/
http://www.mycity-military.com/Avijacija-i-PVO/Nova-generacija-helikoptera-Mi-X1-Ka-90-Ka-92-SikorskyX2.html
http://www.flightglobal.com/articles/2011/05/15/356660/russia-eyes-high-speed-helicopters.html

 

[Triton]

Model of Kamov Ka-92

Artist's impression of Kamov Ka-92 circa 2007.

Source:
http://kumquat-news.blogspot.com/2011/04/smigowce-hybrydowe-fire-at-will.html

http://www.aviationweek.com/aw/blogs/defense/index.jsp?plckController=Blog&plckScript=blogScript&plckElementId=blogDest&plckBlogPage=BlogViewPost&plckPostId=Blog:27ec4a53-dcc8-42d0-bd3a-01329aef79a7Post:f2078e4f-8055-4086-aa54-78ae4756bab1

 

[Jemiba]

The Ka-92 changed its appearance considerably during development:
(drawings not exactly to scale)

 

[flanker]

IMDS-2011

 

[Deino]

In the latest Air International there's a short report about the latest Russian-heli-developments and also a picture of the latest iteration of the "revised" Ka-62 ... any idea, why that redesign ?

Deino

 

[Triton]

Is development work still proceeding on the Kamov Ka-90 or Ka-92? Do the models still appear at trade shows?

 

[Stargazer]

A few Kamov projects from OKB N.I. Kamov:

 

[zebedee]

Another couple of interesting shots of the V-100 from the Vertopedia.ru site...

Zeb

 

[Stingray]

Early AK autogyro design:

 

[ucon]

Some more info about AK autogyre by Kamov and Mil

 

[Triton]

Source:
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=419066&page=63
http://htka.hu/2011/06/04/uj-helikoptereket-mutattak-be-az-oroszok/
http://www.oboronprom.ru/catalog/helicopters/perspektivnyi-skorostnoi-vertolet-psv

 

[Triton]

Model of Kamov V-100 built circa 1975 on display at MAKS 1999.

Source:
http://www.airforce.ru/show/maks99/lazinkov/part7.htm

 

[Triton]

Model of Kamov V-80 on display at MAKS 1999.

Source:
http://www.airforce.ru/show/maks99/lazinkov/part7.htm