KAI KF-21 Boramae (KFX Korean Indigenous Fighter program)

Deltafan said:
breakingdefense.com

Sweden commits to future fighter procurement decision in 2031: Official - Breaking Defense

A decision has not been made so far on an Initial Operating Capability (IOC) date for a future fighter, but a wide range of planning activities will inform the 2031 procurement decision, an official said.
breakingdefense.com breakingdefense.com
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It's just me at this point, but I can't help but notice that their projected timelines lines up very nicely with block III development and procurement plan.
 
TsrJoe said:
72 scale model kit of KF-21 avaliable soon ...
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Great Scott ! Somebody has to kitbash it with a Super Hornet: take its undercarriage and USN markings, put them on the KF-21, and there you are. A "baby NATF" / Superbug hybrid (same F414 turbofans, for a start).
But I digress, this is not the correct forum section for such speculation.
 

KF-21 Technology Allegedly Stolen By Indonesian Engineers | Aviation Week Network

Two Indonesian engineers attached to KAI have been detained by South Korean authorities for alleged technology theft related to the KF-21 fighter.
aviationweek.com aviationweek.com

www.flightglobal.com

Seoul probes Indonesian engineers over alleged KF-21 technical theft

South Korea is probing an alleged theft of technical information related to the developmental Korea Aerospace Industries KF-21 fighter.
www.flightglobal.com www.flightglobal.com

Personally, I think it's just a minor security infringement caused by the Indonesian engineers not being used to strict security standards and measures, but we'll see how serious the probelm is.
 
That is sad news indeed especially when Indonesia were looking to buy some, I wonder what will happen now with the order?
 
FighterJock said:
That is sad news indeed especially when Indonesia were looking to buy some, I wonder what will happen now with the order?
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Well Indonesia placed the largest order in their history a couple of months ago with Rafale... So I think the deal is dead, they seem to be no more interested in Boramae but they don't want to officially quit either? @stealthflanker What do you make of this?

Afterall, we should all remember that they have been looking around for a new fighter for a while now; be it F-15ID, Su-35, Eurofighter or the Rafale.
 
There is also an interesting question as to whom and for what purpose the allegedly stolen data is useful...
 
Let's not put that on Indonesia as a spying act. Employees retrieving Data inadvertently or for their personal use is far more common than James Bond flavored occurrences.

(That's why you need hard safeguard.)
 
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That is a quick turn around for the Boramae starting mass production, obviously South Korea has realised that they need the KF-21 in service as soon as posssible.
 
I agree with you guys, SK has a real need for this aircraft, so they focused and are getting it done. I'm pretty sure our NGAD 6th gen was a Dem/Val along the same lines as ATF, just highly classified. If the need is great, things magically happen.
 
Archibald said:
It is really a striking contrast to Rafale & Typhoon never ending development and production, stretched over twenty years or even more.
2015 - 2020 - 2024 is less than a decade !
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Helps that it's really only about a 4.75gen airplane. 3rd Gen engines, exposed weapons not a bay for the first tranche, simple composite skins not built-in antennas...

And they had folks from LockMart there to say "We can't help you with this particular technology, but we can tell you it kicked our butts for a good 20 years to figure out. I strongly recommend against including this in the KF-21, save it for a research plane now and include it in the next generation aircraft.


FighterJock said:
That is so true Archibald, I for one cannot wait until the KF-21 enters service with the SK air force. But how many squadrons are earmarked to get the KF-21?
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10th and 18th Fighter Wings for sure, they're still flying KF-5s (and a squadron of F-4s in the 10th)!

So a good 6 squadrons or so, ~100 aircraft just for those squadrons. Then it may start replacing KF-16s, though I'm expecting those to be replaced by F-35s. Last question would be the F-15Ks.
 
Scott Kenny said:
Helps that it's really only about a 4.75gen airplane. 3rd Gen engines, exposed weapons not a bay for the first tranche, simple composite skins not built-in antennas...

And they had folks from LockMart there to say "We can't help you with this particular technology, but we can tell you it kicked our butts for a good 20 years to figure out. I strongly recommend against including this in the KF-21, save it for a research plane now and include it in the next generation aircraft.
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Truly, they are around 20 years late to the 4.5th gen party. Obviously KF-21 is a fair bit more advanced compared to the first iterations of 4.5th gen fighters that came out around that time, but there's the gist.

As for built-in antennas, KF-21 CN suite uses Cobham conformal antenna.

Scott Kenny said:
10th and 18th Fighter Wings for sure, they're still flying KF-5s (and a squadron of F-4s in the 10th)!

So a good 6 squadrons or so, ~100 aircraft just for those squadrons. Then it may start replacing KF-16s, though I'm expecting those to be replaced by F-35s. Last question would be the F-15Ks.
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The 120 aircrafts planned are to replace the remaining F-5 variants and F-16PBU. F-35s replace F-4s, hence the remainder of Phantoms are going to be phased-out this year. As for the replacement of KF-16U, there's nothing set in stone, it's most probably going to be partially replaced by KF-21 block 3 and partially by the follow-up programme to build larger fighter (I've mentioned the ROKAF and KAI future plans a few times on this thread). This follow-up fighter will also most probably replace F-15K, since procuring NGF or GCAP is not an option for ROKAF.
 
Maro.Kyo said:
Truly, they are around 20 years late to the 4.5th gen party. Obviously KF-21 is a fair bit more advanced compared to the first iterations of 4.5th gen fighters that came out around that time, but there's the gist.
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That's why I said 4.75gen, the airframe is a lot closer to 5gen than the other 4.5gen.


Maro.Kyo said:
As for built-in antennas, KF-21 CN suite uses Cobham conformal antenna.
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Which is scabbed on top of the skin, not an integrated part of the skin panel.


Maro.Kyo said:
The 120 aircrafts planned are to replace the remaining F-5 variants and F-16PBU. F-35s replace F-4s, hence the remainder of Phantoms are going to be phased-out this year.
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Ah, that makes sense!

Maro.Kyo said:
As for the replacement of KF-16U, there's nothing set in stone, it's most probably going to be partially replaced by KF-21 block 3 and partially by the follow-up programme to build larger fighter (I've mentioned the ROKAF and KAI future plans a few times on this thread). This follow-up fighter will also most probably replace F-15K, since procuring NGF or GCAP is not an option for ROKAF.
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I mean, it's not like the ROKAF needs the stupendous ranges that NGAD and probably GCAP are going for.

I suspect their next plane is going to have lots of internal capacity in the bays, to the relative detriment of fuel capacity and range.
 
snne said:
Why don't they d3velop indigenous missiles? They have domestic fighters but no domestic aa missile, I don't think this can go on like this.
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They didn't have the expertise.

Now they're making SAMs. Get a local production license for a foreign design, come up with design modifications to that design (see Skyflash and Aspide), then finally make your own missiles from scratch.
 
snne said:
Why don't they d3velop indigenous missiles? They have domestic fighters but no domestic aa missile, I don't think this can go on like this.
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They do but that takes time. Also integrating other systems could be beneficial for Future user who may already operate things like Iris-T or meteor
 

South Korea Expects Contract For KF-21 Production In June | Aviation Week Network

South Korea has released its KF-21 fighter aircraft production road map and is expected to sign for the first batch of aircraft in June.
aviationweek.com aviationweek.com


" …South Korea’s Defense Acquisition Program Administration (DAPA) has released its KF-21 fighter aircraft production road map and is expected to sign for the first batch of aircraft in June.

Despite a proposal by the Korea Institute for Defense Analyses (KIDA) in November 2023 to halve production of 40 KF-21 Block 1s down to 20 units, the National Assembly approved a budget a month later to allow for uninterrupted production of 40 KF-21 Block 1s.

Defense Minister Shin Won-sik told local media that while the Defense Ministry and DAPA do not have to follow the report issued by KIDA, they will respect KIDA’s opinion.

DAPA and Korea Aerospace Industries (KAI) will sign a contract for the production of 20 KF-21 Block1s in June 2024, and DAPA will conduct a feasibility study for the production of the KF-21 from July 24 to Jan. 25. The pair will then sign a second contract for the purchase of 20 additional KF-21 Block1s.
…"
 
FighterJock said:
Wow! things are going fast for the Boramea signing for the first batch of 20 KF-21 Block 1s in June. Don't know where that will leave Indonesia now with their order of KF-21s since they have apparently bought more Rafale's.
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yeah i always wonder about their budget. They want to buy a lot of things, but apparently have a budget management issue too.
They just cut orders on some Blackhawks due to that.

I do think they should prioritize funding the KF-21 since they have an industrial stake in it that the other planes dont.
 
My point too helmutkhol, Indonesia should stick with the KF-21 and not bother ordering F-15s and Rafale's as you rightly say they have an industrial stake in the Boramea.
 
FighterJock said:
My point too helmutkhol, Indonesia should stick with the KF-21 and not bother ordering F-15s and Rafale's as you rightly say they have an industrial stake in the Boramea.
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I wonder what's going on behind the doors, since this Indonesian behaviour is really weird to me. They preferred a 20+ year old 4.5th gen with a full production backlog over a more future proof 4.5th gen, and I'm not even talking about their earlier "industrial participation" plans yet.
 
Something really weird snne, I do not know what to make of the Indonesian's governments situation right now with the KF-21 I do wish that they would sign on the dotted line and be done with it. Unless they are waiting for the Block 2 variant (the one with the internal weapons bays) that could be a possibility.
 
FighterJock said:
Something really weird snne, I do not know what to make of the Indonesian's governments situation right now with the KF-21 I do wish that they would sign on the dotted line and be done with it. Unless they are waiting for the Block 2 variant (the one with the internal weapons bays) that could be a possibility.
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They must surely have some reasons for doing this. The question is, what are these?
 
snne said:
They must surely have some reasons for doing this. The question is, what are these?
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my guess are two things
1. The changing security needs in the South China Seas and a more assertive PRC. They need more planes now
2. Replacing the Flanker fleet sooner rather than later, due to embargoes.

in that sense I can see why they would want Rafale or an F-15, but both would surely affect the KF-21 budgeting
 
helmutkohl said:
my guess are two things
1. The changing security needs in the South China Seas and a more assertive PRC. They need more planes now
2. Replacing the Flanker fleet sooner rather than later, due to embargoes.

in that sense I can see why they would want Rafale or an F-15, but both would surely affect the KF-21 budgeting
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I don't think urgency is one of them. Their first KF-21s would've arrived around the same time as Rafales anyway. But the problem is, they've opted for a less future proof design. They must be unhappy with what the Koreans had offered earlier, otherwise this decision doesn't make sense. I also remember reading about the US demanding some stuff from Ind because of their contribution to the project.

Anyway, nothing is certain yet and thus we can't speculate any further than this.
 

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