KAI KF-21 Boramae (KFX Korean Indigenous Fighter program)

I can totally agree with you AnonSB, I like the dark colour scheme as well. It suites the Boramae nicely.
 
I want to see Poland join the Boramae program as soon as practically possible, could KAI do a special variant of the Boramae with the internal weapon bays sooner for Poland and for general export? I would think so.
 
red admiral said:
4 x AMRAAM C or 2 x AMRAAM C + 4 x SDB was where we seemed to get to last time

Probably just 2 x Meteor, possibly 4 with a big squeeze
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I would be very surprised if the weapon bays aren't designed for at least 4 Meteors (2x2). Imho, anything less would be unacceptable for a fighter of this size (volume).
 
VTOLicious said:
How many Meteor / AMRAAM gonna fit internally?
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two in each side
but if you look at the bay cut away in the previous pages
there could possibly be room for 3 if you use a stacked arrangement.
but not sure how much space the launchers take.
 
VTOLicious said:
I would be very surprised if the weapon bays aren't designed for at least 4 Meteors (2x2). Imho, anything less would be unacceptable for a fighter of this size (volume).
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I know, but i'm far from convinced from when you look at the pictures of the structure. If you project upwards from the current semiconformal trays for Meteor then the bay walls slope inwards so there is less space, which probably means only 2 Meteors inside. They already seem to be using the clipped fin version.

There's various fan art of 6 x AMRAAMs around but the structure in those is completely different to what has actually been built.

I'm not sure there's much new info apart from photos of the real thing carrying Meteor semi-conformally which helps to judge scale

https://www.secretprojects.co.uk/th...nous-fighter-program.1686/page-16#post-450187
 
sferrin said:
I wonder if they'd let Taiwan join.
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No chance Taiwan gets KF-21 or any other western jet for that matter, apart from F-16V. Fortunately for them, recently they've been able to get their Mirage 2000s on a MLU pipeline so there's that. The question is its cost, and there's been some debates regarding if they should go with a Mirage 2000 upgrade or not. Apart from getting their inventory to later 4th gen standards, they have their own next generation fighter jet project discussed here : https://www.secretprojects.co.uk/threads/taiwan-5th-gen-fighter-studies.31513/

Still a long way to go, but they will at least end up with something, just like how they are now building their own submarine after being stuck with Hai Shih class and two Zwaardvis class for couple of decades.

raptor82 said:
“two in each side…”

？？？
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That's fan-made.

red admiral said:
I know, but i'm far from convinced from when you look at the pictures of the structure. If you project upwards from the current semiconformal trays for Meteor then the bay walls slope inwards so there is less space, which probably means only 2 Meteors inside. They already seem to be using the clipped fin version.

There's various fan art of 6 x AMRAAMs around but the structure in those is completely different to what has actually been built.

I'm not sure there's much new info apart from photos of the real thing carrying Meteor semi-conformally which helps to judge scale

https://www.secretprojects.co.uk/th...nous-fighter-program.1686/page-16#post-450187
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The width still seems wide enough for 4 Meteors to me. Bear in mind, the centre two missiles are slightly forward of two outward ones. the fin overlap is rather minimal.
 
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kal mum0t1.png

KAL Aerospace presentation material from KODEF seminar earlier this year (02.2023). Current focus of KF-21 block 3 programme, as conveyed before, lies on unmanned teaming and Korean aerial system of systems. Note that block 3 programme details, including the decision on whether or not they will actually implement IWB on KF-21, is still undecided.

From what I've heard, ADD and its partners are pushing for IWB implementation whereas KAI wants to take the safe (and cheaper) route and instead use that space to integrate new avionics (akin to how F-22 got new avionics installed in later blocks in the empty spaces inside forward fuselage section, which was supposed to house AIRST and side looking radars during the earlier days of ATF). ROKAF, who has most say on the matter, currently seems undecided. They are currently issuing external preliminary research tenders to study future air power needs and next generation fighter capabilities, so we'll get to know what they exactly want sooner or later.

Even if KAI doesn't want to take risk, they've got no other choice than to fulfill what the ROKAF wants afterall. One might remember that KAI once proposed a single-engined fighter design, the C501, which the ROKAF vehemently opposed in favor of ADD's twin-engined C103, so I don't think it's far fetched to say that history would repeat itself (I've talked about this in more detail a few pages back).

Regarding the details of the individual UAS components, there's a separate thread for Korean UCAV programmes : https://www.secretprojects.co.uk/threads/republic-of-korea-ucav-programs.9182/
 
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Maro.Kyo said:
The width still seems wide enough for 4 Meteors to me. Bare in mind, the centre two missiles are slightly forward of two outward ones. the fin overlap is rather minimal.
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But the semi conformal weapon "slots" are also staggered so there's no saving there? There may be a slight space saving through rotating the weapons through 45deg to hang vertically rather than the current orientation. Or you maybe adopt some sort of sequential release mechanism to allow for tighter carriage
 
Maro.Kyo said:
Even if KAI doesn't want to take risk, they've got no other choice than to fulfill what the ROKAF wants afterall. One might remember that KAI once proposed a single-engined fighter design, the C501, which the ROKAF vehemently opposed in favor of ADD's twin-engined C103, so I don't think it's far fetched to say that history would repeat itself.
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did they give any specific reason why they opposed the single engine concept?
 
red admiral said:
But the semi conformal weapon "slots" are also staggered so there's no saving there? There may be a slight space saving through rotating the weapons through 45deg to hang vertically rather than the current orientation. Or you maybe adopt some sort of sequential release mechanism to allow for tighter carriage
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Good points right there, and I think you're arguments makes quite some sense when we consider the difference between the width of widest and narrowest parts of the IWB compartment as seen on the bulkhead. Though as I've said, my views regarding the width problem are purely speculations based on my observation. I think that, if there were to be interference issues with internally mounted Meteors, that would be caused by ram air ducts being too close from one another rather than the fins. I don't know if mounting missiles vertically instead of current conformal mounting orientation would solve that problem (again, if such problem exists in the first place), since current mounting orientation requires less clearance in terms missile width.

Though I should note that, before we talk about mounting Meteors, we should keep in mind that ROKAF is still planning to integrate AMRAAM and Sidewinder X to the KF-21. Meteor and IRIS-T were actually meant as contingency/gap-filler option at first, in case the US didn't clear the integration of their A2A stores, which they didn't. Known reason for US denial was that "the aircraft is still in development phase" and they've asked the Korean counterpart to come up with detailed data required for integration once the aircraft is fully developed. If we are to believe those stated reasons, they'll be able to integrate AMRAAM soon to KF-21. Once integrated with AMRAAM, it will garaunteed be able to mount 4 BVRAAMs internally, one way or the other.

helmutkohl said:
did they give any specific reason why they opposed the single engine concept?
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Various reasons were stated, starting from "more room/potential for future growth", "better performance", "wider choice of engines", "better redundancy of twin engines rather than single engine layout", etc. Though, personally I think it was mostly about aircraft performance.
 
Wonder if they'd buy cats and arresting gear from the US. A shame they're going with two islands.
 
The South Koreans obviously looked at the Queen Elizabeth aircraft carriers and thought that was a good idea.
 
I don't know why the QE went with 2 either. Seems like a waste of deck space.
 
Same here sferrin, I thought that too at the time they announced them. But they are unique in the world of aircraft carriers for that.
 
sferrin said:
I don't know why the QE went with 2 either. Seems like a waste of deck space.
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We’re getting off topic but it’s a compromise between aviation requirements (1 island better) and ship requirements.

2 islands are preferable from a ship designer’s point of view because they save internal volume (more direct uptakes) and allow for wider engine room separation. They also eliminate electronic interference between topside antennas and allow some redundancy if one island is hit. Since aircraft carriers are primarily volume constrained and survivability is a big concern, the 2 islands make a lot of sense.

The exception is for a nuclear carrier where you have no uptakes so more freedom to locate the island and so the ideal location is a single island as far towards the stern (Ford) or the bow (Charles de Gaulle) as possible to simplify aircraft movements. The French also looked at a « 1.5 island » arrangement for a conventional carrier, where some of the uptakes were installed directly next to the flight deck as on the US Ranger or Independence class CVs.
 
I like the look of the Sky Dragon stealthy advanced cruise missile Forrest Green, it is obviously one of the proposed weapons for the Boramae.
 
GTX said:
bulgarianmilitary.com

UAE buys Indonesia's share and becomes part of the KF-21 program

UAE is moving towards increasing the combat capabilities of its air force. UAE is becoming part of South Korea's KF-21 fifth-generation stealth fighter program.
bulgarianmilitary.com bulgarianmilitary.com
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I do not want to ruin the party and if true it would be indeed a great news, but so far I have seen only some random Twitter accounts posting this and nothing official .. and quoting Bulgarianmilitary is IMO more a proof it is something wrong
 
It could just be UAE money paying for Indonesia's share.
Back in the 1970s it wasn't unusual for nations like Saudi Arabia and Libya to fund other Arab/Muslim nations' fighter purchases.

But if UAE has brought itself a share - well it takes it closer to its stated aim of home production of military equipment.
 
Hood said:
It could just be UAE money paying for Indonesia's share.
Back in the 1970s it wasn't unusual for nations like Saudi Arabia and Libya to fund other Arab/Muslim nations' fighter purchases.

But if UAE has brought itself a share - well it takes it closer to its stated aim of home production of military equipment.
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I thought the same too. its not unusual for a rich Gulf State to help subsidize the defense of friendly countries, especially those that are predominantly Muslim.

Guess we will need to wait for the details.
Since that tweet, the news has spread to a number of other news outlets both English and Korean
 
stealthflanker said:
Yep, like Aviapro... they're not making their own news, but merely reposting someone else and it could be a circular reporting.
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Exactly - or at the same level like the similar worse WantChinaTimes - but the problem is, they are mostly posting totally unrealistic stuff like Turkey is getting J-10C to replace its F-16 ... o_O
 
Deino said:
I do not want to ruin the party and if true it would be indeed a great news, but so far I have seen only some random Twitter accounts posting this and nothing official .. and quoting Bulgarianmilitary is IMO more a proof it is something wrong
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100% agree
 
Liking the look of the aircraft carrier, so they have gone with the larger sized Queen Elizabeth design. How many will the South Korean's potentially order? Two?
 

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