Japanese next generation fighter studies (aka i3, F-3)

[helmutkohl]

In a sense, South Korea is presently achieving (with KF-21) what Japan had struggled to achieve since the T-2 / F-2.
Why can't Japan pull a KF-21 ?

i don't get it?
what is Japan supposed to achieve in your eyes?

They've built a 4th gen in the F-2 (granted they could not push their original design and had to use an F-16 based one).
They've built one of the world's first AESA radar
They've built fighter jet engines as well as all kinds of missiles
and they built the X-2 stealthy demonstrator.

All indicators show that they're trying to skip the 5th gen and go to "6th", whatever that is.

 

[Bhurki]

In a sense, South Korea is presently achieving (with KF-21) what Japan had struggled to achieve since the T-2 / F-2.
Why can't Japan pull a KF-21 ?

i don't get it?
what is Japan supposed to achieve in your eyes?

They've built a 4th gen in the F-2 (granted they could not push their original design and had to use an F-16 based one).
They've built one of the world's first AESA radar
They've built fighter jet engines as well as all kinds of missiles
and they built the X-2 stealthy demonstrator.

All indicators show that they're trying to skip the 5th gen and go to "6th", whatever that is.

Whats even more impressive is that they were able to develop an MPA (P-1) and C-2 cargo aircraft for a cost of just about $3B.
And also being able to develop the XF9 turbofan with very little help from 'others'.
Japanese defense industry is no slouch.

 

[Archibald]

I probably heard too many bad things about the F-2 being "a larger merely improved F-16". Heck, even Richard Aboulafia Teal group said that. Which doesn't mean they are right.

 

[helmutkohl]

I probably heard too many bad things about the F-2 being "a larger merely improved F-16". Heck, even Richard Aboulafia Teal group said that. Which doesn't mean they are right.

well the problem with the F-2 is that its heavier, but has more or less the same thrust as the F-16.

its development was incredibly political

From the US perspective
they said Japan needed to do more to counter the Soviet threat
and the Japanese building their own original idea wouldn't be good, as they thought it would be an expensive, inferior, and low production rate aircraft. So they pushed them to basically Japanize an existing US design

From the Japanese perspective
what they wanted was a modern follow on from the F-1 that was twin engined to do some AshM missions like the F-1 did.
their idea was some kind of aircraft that looked like an F-18 but a delta-canard.

They felt that the US was pressuring them in order to have more aircraft to stand up to the Soviets
but it couldn't be their own domestic idea. must be an American one because the Americans were afraid of the Japanese surpassing them in combat aircraft as well.

Keep in mind this was the 1980s, when a lot of Americans feared Japan's economic might and technological advances.

This left a strong sour taste in Japan when it comes to collaborating with the US on certain major defense issues.

Now in regards to the KF-21.. I believe what Japan really wanted was the F-22. It seems they really believed the US would allow it for export, but that never happened. By the time it was obvious, it was already the mid 2000s (2010s?).
Probably too late to make a 5th gen from scratch at this point, and they needed to start thinking of the 6th generation as anything they would do would end up flying in the late 2020s or 2030s anyways.
a KF-21 design might be too small and not what Japan wants, which is something larger.

 

[Ares]

Can somebody summarize the content behind the paywall?

A spokesperson from the UK Ministry of Defence (MoD) told Janes that the proposed project with Japan is linked to the UK government's Future Combat Air System (FCAS), of which the Tempest future fighter is the crucial component. In late 2020 the UK agreed to progress FCAS through a trilateral memorandum of understanding (MoU) with Italy and Sweden.

“Working with international allies is central to our strategy for a Future Combat Air System, which will keep us safe from intensifying threats for the rest of the century,” said the MoD spokesperson. “As well as our partnership with Sweden and Italy, we are exploring opportunities on the development of subsystems with Japan.”

Japan, UK discuss partnership on fighter jet engines

The governments of Japan and the United Kingdom are discussing a potential joint programme to develop aero-engine technologies that will power Japan's next-generation...

www.janes.com

 

[helmutkohl]

Can somebody summarize the content behind the paywall?

A spokesperson from the UK Ministry of Defence (MoD) told Janes that the proposed project with Japan is linked to the UK government's Future Combat Air System (FCAS), of which the Tempest future fighter is the crucial component. In late 2020 the UK agreed to progress FCAS through a trilateral memorandum of understanding (MoU) with Italy and Sweden.

“Working with international allies is central to our strategy for a Future Combat Air System, which will keep us safe from intensifying threats for the rest of the century,” said the MoD spokesperson. “As well as our partnership with Sweden and Italy, we are exploring opportunities on the development of subsystems with Japan.”

Japan, UK discuss partnership on fighter jet engines

The governments of Japan and the United Kingdom are discussing a potential joint programme to develop aero-engine technologies that will power Japan's next-generation...

www.janes.com

here you go..

A spokesperson from the UK Ministry of Defence (MoD) told Janes that the proposed project with Japan is linked to the UK government's Future Combat Air System (FCAS), of which the Tempest future fighter is the crucial component. In late 2020 the UK agreed to progress FCAS through a trilateral memorandum of understanding (MoU) with Italy and Sweden.


“Working with international allies is central to our strategy for a Future Combat Air System, which will keep us safe from intensifying threats for the rest of the century,” said the MoD spokesperson. “As well as our partnership with Sweden and Italy, we are exploring opportunities on the development of subsystems with Japan.”


Rolls-Royce told Janes that its potential collaboration with IHI Corporation would be founded on the UK firm's strong industrial ties in the Asian country.


Rolls-Royce says on its website that nearly 20% of the components and modules in its Trent family of commercial aerospace engines are built in Japan. Rolls-Royce engines power aircraft across all branches of the Japan Self-Defense Forces (JSDF), according to the website.


“Working with Japan to develop the technologies and capabilities needed for a next-generation fighter to replace the F-2 offers an exciting opportunity to bring together some of the best combat air capabilities in the world,” said a Rolls-Royce spokesperson.

 

[Ares]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1417456857682153473

View: https://twitter.com/ChiefofAirStaff/status/1417456857682153473

 

[helmutkohl]

nothing terribly new but:

次期戦闘機エンジン、ＩＨＩとロールス・ロイスが共同開発へ…日英高官が詰めの協議

【読売新聞】　政府は、航空自衛隊Ｆ２戦闘機の後継となる次期戦闘機のエンジンについて、重工大手ＩＨＩと英ロールス・ロイスの共同開発とする方向で調整に入った。レーダーに探知されにくいステルス性能などは米ロッキード・マーチンの支援が決まっ

www.yomiuri.co.jp

summary: Mitsubishi will work with Lockheed Martin on the stealth features for the new aircraft while IHI will work on the engines with Rolls Royce. The goal with RR is to reduce cost and improve performance.
the JSDF plans to standardize their fleet to 3 combat aircraft: the F-35, a modernized F-15, and this new aircraft (note no F-2, theyve seemed to be dissatisfied with it since day 1).
Final cost of development to exceed 1 trillion yen (over 9 billion USD)

and a whatif from Zephyr164. You may have noticed his works on his depictions of the Su-75 in the Checkmate thread

https://twitter.com/x/status/1420022632909508611

View: https://twitter.com/Zephyr164/status/1420022632909508611/photo/1

 

[Geo]

Thanks.

 

[muttbutt]

Complementary loyal wingman/UCAV work gets the go ahead, translated from Japanese.

Unmanned aerial vehicle supports next fighter aircraft Autonomous flight with AI, acceleration of examination-Ministry of Defense​

August 11, 2021 17:20


[Illustration] Operation image of unmanned aerial vehicle



On the 11th, the Ministry of Defense decided to develop an unmanned aerial vehicle to support the next fighter, which will be the successor to the Japan Air Self-Defense Force F2 fighter. Include related expenses in the 2022 budget request, and accelerate the study for the realization of autonomous flight technology for unmanned aerial vehicles by artificial intelligence (AI). Like the next fighter, it aims to start operation around 1935.

Operation methods for support include (1) early detection of enemy fighters and missiles (2) missile launch (3) electronic attack while flying in an airspace away from the next fighter, and enemy missiles. It is expected to become a "decoy" for. Unmanned aerial vehicles have the advantage of being easy to fly in dangerous airspace because there is no human damage even if they are shot down.

 

[Ares]

Japan MOD plans to invest more than ¥100 billion($10 million) for the full-scale design of F-X in the 2022 budget.

防衛省、次期戦闘機開発費1000億円超要求　2022年概算要求 | 毎日新聞

防衛省は2022年度予算案の概算要求に、35年の配備を目指す次期戦闘機の開発関係費を1000億円超計上する方針を固めた。国内メーカー主体の共同開発体制がほぼ固まったことを受け、本格的な設計作業に入る。

mainichi.jp

 

[TomcatViP]

100 billion Yen is ~1 billion dollar

 

[helmutkohl]

100 billion Yen is ~1 billion dollar

yep. the easiest way to convert yens to dollars is to simply delete the last two digits.
although these days 100 billion yen is closer to 910 million.

I think often the confusion is the way Japanese (and Chinese and Korean) categorize their number groupings
100 billon yen is 1000億
basically 1 thousand x 1 hundred million

 

[Ares]

I'm not good at huge numbers of English. So confuse.

 

[trose213]

Whats even more impressive is that they were able to develop an MPA (P-1) and C-2 cargo aircraft for a cost of just about $3B.

And that they're the first FBL planes.

 

[supergaleb]

For some reason I get F-4 Phantom vibes from this aircraft.

 

[Sundog]

the JSDF plans to standardize their fleet to 3 combat aircraft: the F-35, a modernized F-15, and this new aircraft (note no F-2, theyve seemed to be dissatisfied with it since day 1).

The F-35 is replacing the F-2 in the strike role, and the F-3 is going to be the new top end fighter. The F-15s will still be useful for air defense. It seems to me the F-2s were mainly used for strike, so having the F-35s negates any reason to keep them.

 

[Colonial-Marine]

Seems a bit of a waste. I know the F-2 is quite expensive due to a variety of reasons but it should be one of the more capable F-16 derivatives out there. I'm sure it's quite agile too with that larger wing.

 

[TomcatViP]

A bona fide for private adversary services?

 

[helmutkohl]

the JSDF plans to standardize their fleet to 3 combat aircraft: the F-35, a modernized F-15, and this new aircraft (note no F-2, theyve seemed to be dissatisfied with it since day 1).

The F-35 is replacing the F-2 in the strike role, and the F-3 is going to be the new top end fighter. The F-15s will still be useful for air defense. It seems to me the F-2s were mainly used for strike, so having the F-35s negates any reason to keep them.

Indeed, the F-2s are primarily used for maritime strike. The requirement was for an aircraft to carry up to 4 AShMs

such as these 4 ASM2s..
although in practice it tended to be 2.

i wonder how many the F-35 can carry?

 

[stealthflanker]

Will Japanese's F-35's be capable of carrying the new ASM-3 ? Seems unlikely to me F-35 will replace F-2 without such capability.

The lineup here would look like F-3 will replace F-2, while F-35 and F-15 will be in their own roles decided by the Japanese.
------

Other than that i like F-2. it's just that it deviates from what it originally intended and there arent many built in the first place. Had Japan went on producing some 100-200 articles or more. It would compare favorably in price with other aircrafts.

 

[helmutkohl]

Will Japanese's F-35's be capable of carrying the new ASM-3 ? Seems unlikely to me F-35 will replace F-2 without such capability.

The lineup here would look like F-3 will replace F-2, while F-35 and F-15 will be in their own roles decided by the Japanese.
------

Other than that i like F-2. it's just that it deviates from what it originally intended and there arent many built in the first place. Had Japan went on producing some 100-200 articles or more. It would compare favorably in price with other aircrafts.

good question.
I dont know..
but I do know Japan made a budget for the JSM, which I assume can be carries internally

 

[Ares]

Will Japanese's F-35's be capable of carrying the new ASM-3 ? Seems unlikely to me F-35 will replace F-2 without such capability.

The lineup here would look like F-3 will replace F-2, while F-35 and F-15 will be in their own roles decided by the Japanese.
------

Other than that i like F-2. it's just that it deviates from what it originally intended and there arent many built in the first place. Had Japan went on producing some 100-200 articles or more. It would compare favorably in price with other aircrafts.

good question.
I dont know..
but I do know Japan made a budget for the JSM, which I assume can be carries internally

It is highly unlikely that the United States will allow Japanese weapons to be integrated into the F-35 since Japan is not the partner in the JSF program.

And that's the one reason for the decision to jointly develop air-to-air missile with the UK.

 

[Maro.Kyo]

The F-35 is replacing the F-2 in the strike role, and the F-3 is going to be the new top end fighter. The F-15s will still be useful for air defense. It seems to me the F-2s were mainly used for strike, so having the F-35s negates any reason to keep them.

Not that simple. F-3 would carry over the maritime strike role of the F-2 which was one of its most important mission (thus the name support fighter). Actually, the ASM-3 integration to the F-2 has been suspended due to the integration problem with the current MC (so the F-2 needs a new MC for it to use ASM-3 and the ordeal is a bit complicated) and with F-3 in mind, has since then been kept on hold regarding its fielding and is going through additional upgrade to extend range and improve other features. ASM-3A is the result of this process.

 

[Kota]

The F-35 is replacing the F-2 in the strike role, and the F-3 is going to be the new top end fighter. The F-15s will still be useful for air defense. It seems to me the F-2s were mainly used for strike, so having the F-35s negates any reason to keep them.

Not that simple. F-3 would carry over the maritime strike role of the F-2 which was one of its most important mission (thus the name support fighter). Actually, the ASM-3 integration to the F-2 has been suspended due to the integration problem with the current MC (so the F-2 needs a new MC for it to use ASM-3 and the ordeal is a bit complicated) and with F-3 in mind, has since then been kept on hold regarding its fielding and is going through additional upgrade to extend range and improve other features. ASM-3A is the result of this process.

Not even as simple as this. Japan basically wants their entire fighter fleet to have Anti-shipping capabilities to some capacity.

The F-3 will use the ASM-3 although we don't entirely know if that will be internal or external, how many could fit on wing pylons, etc.

In contrast to the ASM-3, Japan is developing an air launched version of the Type 12 or more accurately the extended range Type 17 SSM-2 as a slower, but much longer range stand-off weapon. The Type 17 already doubled the range of the Type 12, so we can only assume the range benefits of an air launched version.

Development of the Type-12 surface-to-ship missile (modified) and a new air-to-ship missile for patrol aircraft (¥11.5 billion) Develop the Type-12 surface-to-ship missile (modified) with upgraded functions and performance, including a longer range compared with existing missiles, and a new air-to-ship missile for patrol aircraft in order to enhance the capability to counter enemy surface vessels, etc. (standardization based on a new ship-to-ship missile (under development) ) https://www.mod.go.jp/en/d_act/d_budget/pdf/290328.pdf

We've already seen the P-1 with x4 regular Type 12's mounted and the interesting thing to note is the P-1 has 8 wing pylons.

Also Japan scrapped the AGM-158C from the F-15JSI because of integration costs and is looking for an in house alternative and the "XASM-4" as I will call it, fits the bill.

LRASMs Dropped From F-15 Japan Super Interceptor Upgrade List

Japan's Ministry of Defense says that making the JASSM the only cruise missile integrated on upgraded F-15Js will save 60 billion yen (~$547 million).

www.overtdefense.com

Japan Air Self-Defense Force Mulls Dropping Plan To Buy LRASM On F-15JSI - MilitaryLeak.COM

Japan is considering scrapping its plan to procure AGM-158C LRASM (Long Range Anti-Ship Missile) with standoff capabilities for the Japan Air Self-Defense

militaryleak.com

To me it seems like the F-3's focus will be on using it's stealth to penetrate enemy air defense networks and deploying the shorter range, but much faster ASM-3A. Meanwhile non-stealth aircraft with no weapons bay size restrictions (yes the Type 17 at 6.5m is even bigger than the ASM-3) like the P-1 and F-15JSI will carry the "XASM-4" as a saturation standoff weapon outside of the enemy's reach.

To me it seems like in the absence of the F-2, Japan's anti-shipping operations only get better with this combo they are planning and in all honesty I don't see the F-35 needing to pick up any slack.

 

[datafuser]

" Japan’s finance ministry is questioning the affordability of the F-X, the large, twin-engine fighter to be developed by Mitsubishi with help from Lockheed Martin. “As the project requires a huge amount of taxpayer money, shouldn’t we give taxpayers a concrete overview rather than an abstract..."

Japanese Finance Ministry Questions F-X Fighter Cost | Aviation Week Network

Japan’s finance ministry is questioning the affordability of the F-X, a large twin-engine fighter to be developed by Mitsubishi with help from Lockheed Martin.

aviationweek.com

 

[Ares]

Finally, some god damn news. Quite an important one too.

UK participates in the development of the next fighter of the F2 successor... Government policy

The (Japanese)government has made final adjustments to have the UK participation in not only for the engine but relatable parts of the aircraft as well. Joint engine development with the UK has already been established, and the government is also seeking to reduce further development costs, which are expected to reach trillions of yen, by jointly developing engine-related aircraft parts.

Several government officials said, the government wants to solidify the framework of cooperation with the UK by March next year. A prototype aircraft will be produced from the year 2026, and flight tests will begin in the 30s.

The part of the aircraft that the UK is expected to participate in development is near the air intake port and exhaust port for the jet engine, and since it is directly related to the performance of the engine such as thrust, "it is reasonable to develop it together with the engine" (Ministry of Defense official) judged that these parts also have an importance closely related to the stealth performance of the aircraft and the overall shape.

The government aims to deploy the next fighter from around the year 2035 when F-2's retirement begins. The UK is working on the research and development of the next fighter 'Tempest' to introduce it at the same time, so it can be expected to increase efficiency by having common areas in development. The UK is active in disclosing information to Japan, and it also has the advantage of having fewer restrictions on aircraft upgrades in the future.

Ｆ２後継の次期戦闘機、開発に英参加…政府方針

【読売新聞】　政府は、航空自衛隊Ｆ２戦闘機の後継となる次期戦闘機の機体開発の一部に、英国を参加させる方向で最終調整に入った。エンジン部分は既に英国との共同開発の方針を固めており、エンジンと関連性のある機体部分も共同開発することで、数

www.yomiuri.co.jp

 

[FighterJock]

Finally, some god damn news. Quite an important one too.

UK participates in the development of the next fighter of the F2 successor... Government policy

The (Japanese)government has made final adjustments to have the UK participation in not only for the engine but relatable parts of the aircraft as well. Joint engine development with the UK has already been established, and the government is also seeking to reduce further development costs, which are expected to reach trillions of yen, by jointly developing engine-related aircraft parts.

Several government officials said, the government wants to solidify the framework of cooperation with the UK by March next year. A prototype aircraft will be produced from the year 2026, and flight tests will begin in the 30s.

The part of the aircraft that the UK is expected to participate in development is near the air intake port and exhaust port for the jet engine, and since it is directly related to the performance of the engine such as thrust, "it is reasonable to develop it together with the engine" (Ministry of Defense official) judged that these parts also have an importance closely related to the stealth performance of the aircraft and the overall shape.

The government aims to deploy the next fighter from around the year 2035 when F-2's retirement begins. The UK is working on the research and development of the next fighter 'Tempest' to introduce it at the same time, so it can be expected to increase efficiency by having common areas in development. The UK is active in disclosing information to Japan, and it also has the advantage of having fewer restrictions on aircraft upgrades in the future.

Ｆ２後継の次期戦闘機、開発に英参加…政府方針

【読売新聞】　政府は、航空自衛隊Ｆ２戦闘機の後継となる次期戦闘機の機体開発の一部に、英国を参加させる方向で最終調整に入った。エンジン部分は既に英国との共同開発の方針を固めており、エンジンと関連性のある機体部分も共同開発することで、数

www.yomiuri.co.jp

That is brilliant news for Japan, Britain and the F-3. Also good news that Britain is taking part in engine development as well.

 

[Flyaway]

Finally, some god damn news. Quite an important one too.

UK participates in the development of the next fighter of the F2 successor... Government policy

The (Japanese)government has made final adjustments to have the UK participation in not only for the engine but relatable parts of the aircraft as well. Joint engine development with the UK has already been established, and the government is also seeking to reduce further development costs, which are expected to reach trillions of yen, by jointly developing engine-related aircraft parts.

Several government officials said, the government wants to solidify the framework of cooperation with the UK by March next year. A prototype aircraft will be produced from the year 2026, and flight tests will begin in the 30s.

The part of the aircraft that the UK is expected to participate in development is near the air intake port and exhaust port for the jet engine, and since it is directly related to the performance of the engine such as thrust, "it is reasonable to develop it together with the engine" (Ministry of Defense official) judged that these parts also have an importance closely related to the stealth performance of the aircraft and the overall shape.

The government aims to deploy the next fighter from around the year 2035 when F-2's retirement begins. The UK is working on the research and development of the next fighter 'Tempest' to introduce it at the same time, so it can be expected to increase efficiency by having common areas in development. The UK is active in disclosing information to Japan, and it also has the advantage of having fewer restrictions on aircraft upgrades in the future.

Ｆ２後継の次期戦闘機、開発に英参加…政府方針

【読売新聞】　政府は、航空自衛隊Ｆ２戦闘機の後継となる次期戦闘機の機体開発の一部に、英国を参加させる方向で最終調整に入った。エンジン部分は既に英国との共同開発の方針を固めており、エンジンと関連性のある機体部分も共同開発することで、数

www.yomiuri.co.jp

I see Japan as a more reliable partner than some countries I could think of naming no names…

 

[FighterJock]

Finally, some god damn news. Quite an important one too.

UK participates in the development of the next fighter of the F2 successor... Government policy

The (Japanese)government has made final adjustments to have the UK participation in not only for the engine but relatable parts of the aircraft as well. Joint engine development with the UK has already been established, and the government is also seeking to reduce further development costs, which are expected to reach trillions of yen, by jointly developing engine-related aircraft parts.

Several government officials said, the government wants to solidify the framework of cooperation with the UK by March next year. A prototype aircraft will be produced from the year 2026, and flight tests will begin in the 30s.

The part of the aircraft that the UK is expected to participate in development is near the air intake port and exhaust port for the jet engine, and since it is directly related to the performance of the engine such as thrust, "it is reasonable to develop it together with the engine" (Ministry of Defense official) judged that these parts also have an importance closely related to the stealth performance of the aircraft and the overall shape.

The government aims to deploy the next fighter from around the year 2035 when F-2's retirement begins. The UK is working on the research and development of the next fighter 'Tempest' to introduce it at the same time, so it can be expected to increase efficiency by having common areas in development. The UK is active in disclosing information to Japan, and it also has the advantage of having fewer restrictions on aircraft upgrades in the future.

Ｆ２後継の次期戦闘機、開発に英参加…政府方針

【読売新聞】　政府は、航空自衛隊Ｆ２戦闘機の後継となる次期戦闘機の機体開発の一部に、英国を参加させる方向で最終調整に入った。エンジン部分は既に英国との共同開発の方針を固めており、エンジンと関連性のある機体部分も共同開発することで、数

www.yomiuri.co.jp

I see Japan as a more reliable partner than some countries I could think of naming no names…

I wonder what countries you are thinking of Flyaway. Are those countries European by any chance?

 

[H_K]

Well to be fair this is a fairly minimal cooperation - engine, air inlet and exhaust nozzle… easiest place to start.

Not that different from all the previous engine collaborations that Rolls-Royce, Snecma, MTU have been doing for decades.

The cooperation does not extend to the airframe, sensors or combat systems it seems.

 

[Maro.Kyo]

Well to be fair this is a fairly minimal cooperation Engine, air inlet and exhaust nozzle… easiest place to start.

Not that different from all the previous engine collaborations that Rolls-Royce, Snecma, MTU have been doing for decades.

The cooperation does not extend to the airframe, sensors or combat systems it seems.

The radar and lraam are also going to be jointly developed as you can see in the previous pages.

 

[TomcatViP]

It also tells us that they probably have the same range of power, what hints us to think that their sizes are similar (if we believe that both are twin engines design). That tells us how seriously range and persistence was part of the set of requirements, something interestingly new for a European fighter (but not so much for Italy and the UK - think Tornado ADAV).
We know that the French requirements in that domain were probably also for a larger design than their Mirage and Rafale (see the increase in dimensions of their future aircraft carrier). It's difficult to gauge what will be left of those intents in their cooperation with Spain and Germany but point to a ln already very dramatic outcome in the history of FCAS.

 

[Flyaway]

It also tells us that they probably have the same range of power, what hints us to think that their sizes are similar (if we believe that both are twin engines design). That tells us how seriously range and persistence was part of the set of requirements, something interestingly new for a European fighter (but not so much for Italy and the UK - think Tornado ADAV).
We know that the French requirements in that domain were probably also for a larger design than their Mirage and Rafale (see the increase in dimensions of their future aircraft carrier). It's difficult to gauge what will be left of those intents in their cooperation with Spain and Germany but point to a ln already very dramatic outcome in the history of FCAS.

This is somewhat out of my wheelhouse but is it also to make sure there is enough power excess for energy weapons, which we keep being told will be part of any sixth generation aircraft.

 

[stealthflanker]

The Japanese already stated 400KW power generation capability for F-3's. That's considerable amount of juice there.
20-30KW from those would go to Radar and avionics. rests are for stuff like maybe actuation and controls. there could be about 100-150 KW budget available for DEW.

 

[aonestudio]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1473599565349756934

View: https://twitter.com/DefenceHQ/status/1473599565349756934

UK and Japan to develop future fighter jet engine demonstrator

The UK and Japan announce plans to develop a future fighter aircraft engine demonstrator and agree to explore further combat air technologies.

www.gov.uk

 

[Ares]

UK defense ministry surely has better promotion skill than our's.

Currently, our defense ministry hiding the information about the development of future figthter so much, even the finance ministry asked them to publish detailed plan to gain public understanding for huge tax spending on the recently released defense budget audit report.

 

[timmymagic]

In contrast to the ASM-3, Japan is developing an air launched version of the Type 12 or more accurately the extended range Type 17 SSM-2 as a slower, but much longer range stand-off weapon. The Type 17 already doubled the range of the Type 12, so we can only assume the range benefits of an air launched version.

Interestingly, it appears that the Type 17 may share the same AESA seeker as the AAM-4B. Which means its the same (or at least very closely related) as that going into the Meteor-derived JNAAM. Which could potentially have some implications for the secondary use of Meteor....MBDA and RAF were already talking about its use as an Anti-Radiation Missile at DSEi 2019...could it do a limited anti-ship role as well? Hitting anything at m4.0+ tends to hurt a little...

 

[Cjc]

Consdering how costly stelth is and how small the production order will be (less then the f-22!) I have a hard time seeing this plan leave the ground (same with both European 6th generation as well, and Consdering the cost of the f-35 maby not even the us).

 

[stealthflanker]

Consdering how costly stelth is and how small the production order will be (less then the f-22!) I have a hard time seeing this plan leave the ground (same with both European 6th generation as well, and Consdering the cost of the f-35 maby not even the us).

Well same thing can be said for Japanese F-2 program but... This is Japanese. they will take the cost and live with it.