J W Dunne projects

At, last, proof the D.11 existed and was a biplane. Found some notes headed "D.11" and the information in them is consistent with the unfinished drawing.

And, going back to the start of his aeronautical career, photos of a model biplane glider from the summer of 1906. Not the 3ft span one recorded in the history books, but a smaller and earlier one.
 
Forgot to say a few weeks ago, looking back through the various boxfuls of paper models I found some of his "spinners" - auxiliary wing rotors, long detached from any wing but there was no mistaking them in among a packet of "cane, paper and elastic" (to quote HG Wells) - narrow paper rectangles with a length of fine wire carefully glued down the long axis to act as the pivot, just as sketched in a 1904 letter to the Aeronautical Society president, Baden Baden-Powell.
 
Thank you my dear Steelpillow,

and can you please display them.
 
I have now written up a summary list of all Dunne's aeroplanes:
http://www.steelpillow.com/blocki/dunne/Dunne-aircraft.html

By the way, the RAeS demand copyright on everything published, pay nothing and expect the author to licence images at their own expense. So we pay for them to profit from our work, and the more attractive and profitable we make it for them, the more we have to pay! No wonder the international anti-paywall movement is gaining serious momentum.
 
You are most welcome, kind Sir.

His biography progresses slowly but steadily. With luck, it should be out in a year or so.
 
Fascinating stuff, Guy, and clearly a topic about which you are passionate. I am curious, do you or anyone else have any images of the 1923 monoplane design or the WWII D.12 proposals? Low-quality images would be fine, I am just looking for a general idea. Cheers, Matthew
 
I would have to clear even my low-quality snaps with the Museum before releasing them. They have a horrible tickbox paywall bureaucracy hived off to a contractor, which I fear to engage with again until I must - I already have a bruised wallet from another study. I hope to publish something eventually.

The 1923 monoplane wing exists as a single sheet with plan and frontal views. The wing plan is not unlike that of the Folland Gnat, having a relatively low aspect ratio (for Dunne), fairly sharply tapered and with a rounded tip leading edge. Cut back the central apex of the leading edge to improve pilot visibility, and it becomes pretty much Hill's original glider.
The front elevation is hardly changed from his 1906/1911 monoplane design, and Hill pretty much ignored it.

There are a good many general layout sketch/drawings of the D.12 proposals and a couple of more detailed scale drawings. The overall impression is not unlike the Blohm & Voss design studies for the outboard tail P 208, with a short fuselage, pusher prop swept wings and vacillating over whether wingtip fins were necessary. Compared to the B&V wing the D.12 was of higher aspect ratio with a very gentle taper and the horizontal tail surfaces merged seamlessly into a tailless wing. Some sketches for the reconnaissance/bomber version had twin wing-mounted props. Dunne also anticipated jet power but was forced to stop before the era of the B&V P.212 type studies arrived.
The other remarkable thing about the D.12 was the wing aerofoil section, which was drawn to great accuracy for the proposed wind tunnel model. But that is still my secret, unless somebody scoops me before my book comes out.
 
From L+K 22/1985.
 

Attachments

  • 1 22-1985.png
    1 22-1985.png
    77 KB · Views: 12
In short:
One D-8 was delivered to Villacoublay and presented to the Army, then licence manufacturing started at Nieuport, while negotiations with the Astra company failed. Only few D-8 were built at Nieuport, since the French manufacturers pushed more "patriotic" designs. In March 1912, the RFC ordered two machines, but those were probably never delivered.
Last machines developed by the Dunne were D-10, which was actually finished as D-8, and multiplane D-9, which was never built.
 
First of all, Congratulations on the launch of your book steelpillow! I will be adding it to my (unfortunately long and growing) list of resources to purchase when I can afford them.

Secondly, since there are a number of posters here with more knowledge of Dunne and Early British aviation than I possess, I thought I might get their opinions on this:

The Mystery of Lord Haldane and Early British Military Aviation on JSTOR

Alfred Gollin, The Mystery of Lord Haldane and Early British Military Aviation, Albion: A Quarterly Journal Concerned with British Studies, Vol. 11, No. 1 (Spring, 1979), pp. 46-65
www.jstor.org www.jstor.org

The link is to an article from the Albion Journal from 1979, stored on JSTOR. I came across it a couple years ago.

For those who don’t want to take the time to read it or don’t have a JSTOR account I will attempt to summarize:

The article describes how Richard Haldane, then Secretary of State for War, was approached in 1907 by agents acting on behalf of the Wright Brothers, trying to secure government contracts for Wright machines. Haldane eventually responded that the Government was not, at that time, prepared to purchase aircraft from any private company, a statement later historiography would sometimes criticize him for. The article defends this decision at least partially on the basis that Haldane was not uninterested in aviation, but that he backed the wrong horse. Specifically, Dunne.

According to the article, by 1907 great things were expected from Dunne’s work. It was believed that the advantages of Dunne’s stable aircraft would allow the British to train an airforce much quicker than their rivals and with much more utility. Haldane is mentioned as viewing Dunne’s flying trials in Scotland and conversing with Dunne on aviation matters. It’s basically implied in the article that the promise of Dunne’s work caused all other avenues to be ignored for a time. With Haldane refusing to consider a Wright purchase (though, to be fair, the price was likely inflated compared to the value) and Capper supposedly downplaying Cody’s achievement of sustained flight in 1908 for the sake of his preference in Dunne’s designs (and a poor relationship with Cody). And that this singular focus, with the lack of a resulting useable product at the time, led to Haldane’s support for the end of Military aeronautical experiment for the time being.


Is there any truth to the articles assertions or is it mostly just speculative assertion?
 
@ArtosStark If you can get hold of it then Walkers book on Early Aviation at Farnborough has loads on this

The UK government via Col Capper put in a lot of effort trying to negotiate a purchase from the Wrights, so there was interest, but it took lots of effort and time and was then superseded by other events e.g. UK progress with Cody and Dunne
 

Similar threads

Please donate to support the forum.

Back
Top Bottom