Italian Heavy Fighters

[MC72]

Years ago i made several art work about the Santangelo heavy fighter called also "Sturmovino" for the better know Russian Sturmovik, because can do ground attack with the cannon under belly.

 

[MC72]

Ing. Celestino Rosatelli very well Know for the previous biplane family fighters, also projected a heavy fighter/bomber the FIAT CR.44 planned around the 2,400 hp (1,790 kW) FIAT A.44 engine capable to power a contra-rotating propellers solution. The A.44 X-32 engine never was built, so nor the CR.44.

 

[hesham]

Wow,many thanks my dear MC72.

 

[Ifor]

I really do hope the do an Italian or Axis secret projects at sometime.

 

[sgeorges4]

Years ago i made several art work about the Santangelo heavy fighter called also "Sturmovino" for the better know Russian Sturmovik, because can do ground attack with the cannon under belly.

italian bf 110? ;D

 

[hesham]

From Aerofan 1983-2

 

[hesham]

Dear,
here it is the Breda 600 heavy fighter single seater project, designed in november 1938 by Mario Pittoni and Vittorio Calderini.
According to the source (Gente dell'Aria - Giorgio Evangelisti), the project was studied around 2 Isotta Fraschini Asso and it was armed with 2 machine gun of 12,7 mm.
The calculated speed was of 600 km/h.
The project, however, remained only to the papaer.
Regards.

By the way,

it was not its correct designation (Breda-600),and I think it took any of the designation Ba 80s
or 90s series.

 

[lucamax]

Dear Friends,
here I post a 3-view of the project of an heavy fighter designed by Giovanni Galasso, who worked at the IMAM factories, and named CP.12: unfortunatly I don't know any further info about the project, but it is probably dated between 1938 and 1943 (after the italian armistice the engineer have been redeployed to Breda).
Source: "Gente dell'Aria - Vol. 5" Giorgio Evangelisti.
Best regards.
--
Lucamax

 

[blackkite]

Please enjoy my poor speculation about Umbra MB.902.

 

[Jemiba]

Great work, thanks for sharing !

 

[blackkite]

Hi Jens!
Do you want to see 3D images?

 

[Jemiba]

Probably not only me !

 

[blackkite]

I believe forthcoming "Italian Secret Project" has the answer of this mysterious fighter.
And my poor speculation will be discarded.

 

[Jemiba]

... And my poor speculation will be discarded.

That's the fate of everybody, who dares to work on reconstructions, but as long, as there aren't better sources
available, it's the only way to get at least a speculative depiction of such a project.
Again, great work, may I ask, what software you're using ?

 

[blackkite]

Hi Jens. Good question!!!
I use MOI 3D version 4 beta.
I'm poor, but I could get MOI 3D version 3 spending 37,800 yen from Japanese agency.
But unfortunately version3 did not work well in my note PC.

Type : TOSHIBA dynabook T351/35EW A.C.2012 model
OS : Windows7 Home Premium 64bit
CPU : Intel Corei3-2350M, 2.3GHZ
RAM : 8GB
No graphic board

Then I got version 4 beta freely, because I'm a version3 user.
This software(version 4 beta) works surprising very well in my note PC.
I began to use this 3D modeling software from this March.
I 'm a totally beginner for CAD, but I can use this software with ease.
I strongly recommend you to try this software. 　　


I must modify my model such as add radiator/oil cooler flap, modify tail stabilizer shape(add fillet, add rudder elevator line), etc.
Anyway BOI's boolean function is excellent.

Recent F1 drivers say that engine cooling is hard when approaching forward car.
I set MB.902 front engine left side exhaust nozzle at the wing to avoid this problem.
Front engine radiator is located ahead of exhaust nozzles and inhale fresh cold air.

 

[blackkite]

I modified radiator, oil cooler and tail. Enjoy.

 

[Skybolt]

Dear Friends,
here I post a 3-view of the project of an heavy fighter designed by Giovanni Galasso, who worked at the IMAM factories, and named CP.12: unfortunatly I don't know any further info about the project, but it is probably dated between 1938 and 1943 (after the italian armistice the engineer have been redeployed to Breda).
Source: "Gente dell'Aria - Vol. 5" Giorgio Evangelisti.
Best regards.
--
Lucamax

Probably you did notice that the CP-12 is the Ro.67.... Before receiving an official project number (Ro.XX), typically for being tendered to some Regia competition, the IMAM projects received an internal designation, that was progressive as for numbering, preceded by a two letter acronym describing the role of the aircraft. As far as I know only four of these internal designations are known: AA.10, IR.11, CP.12 and IC.13. I leave to you the matching of the designation with Ro.XX model numbers. Hint: late Ro.XX numbers went ALMOST always by the odds.

 

[Skybolt]

I modified radiator, oil cooler and tail. Enjoy.

'kite, splendid work. My compliments.

 

[Skybolt]

Hi Jens. Good question!!!
I use MOI 3D version 4 beta.
I'm poor, but I could get MOI 3D version 3 spending 37,800 yen from Japanese agency.
But unfortunately version3 did not work well in my note PC.

Type : TOSHIBA dynabook T351/35EW A.C.2012 model
OS : Windows7 Home Premium 64bit
CPU : Intel Corei3-2350M, 2.3GHZ
RAM : 8GB
No graphic board

Then I got version 4 beta freely, because I'm a version3 user.
This software(version 4 beta) works surprising very well in my note PC.
I began to use this 3D modeling software from this March.
I 'm a totally beginner for CAD, but I can use this software with ease.
I strongly recommend you to try this software. 　　


I must modify my model such as add radiator/oil cooler flap, modify tail stabilizer shape(add fillet, add rudder elevator line), etc.
Anyway BOI's boolean function is excellent.

Recent F1 drivers say that engine cooling is hard when approaching forward car.
I set MB.902 front engine left side exhaust nozzle at the wing to avoid this problem.
Front engine radiator is located ahead of exhaust nozzles and inhale fresh cold air.

mmm, due to aerodynamic effects, in twin radial engined aircraft with same-hand rotation engines, the right one tended to overheat. I haven't found news regarding the same effect on twin inline engined aircraft, but could be a possibility influencing the position of the radiators (actually, the most critical was the lubrificant one).

 

[Skybolt]

Ing. Celestino Rosatelli very well Know for the previous biplane family fighters, also projected a heavy fighter/bomber the FIAT CR.44 planned around the 2,400 hp (1,790 kW) FIAT A.44 engine capable to power a contra-rotating propellers solution. The A.44 X-32 engine never was built, so nor the CR.44.

The A.44 was an H with a double motor shaft (Prof. Fessia had a fascination for coaxial propellers, even the A.38 initially had to be coaxial-propelled), not an X. Tha A.40 was an X, but was a different type of beast, using the same cylinders of the A.38 but targeted to high-altitude (re-establishment altitude 8000 mt.)

 

[lucamax]

Dear Friends,
here I post a 3-view of the project of an heavy fighter designed by Giovanni Galasso, who worked at the IMAM factories, and named CP.12: unfortunatly I don't know any further info about the project, but it is probably dated between 1938 and 1943 (after the italian armistice the engineer have been redeployed to Breda).
Source: "Gente dell'Aria - Vol. 5" Giorgio Evangelisti.
Best regards.
--
Lucamax

Probably you did notice that the CP-12 is the Ro.67.... Before receiving an official project number (Ro.XX), typically for being tendered to some Regia competition, the IMAM projects received an internal designation, that was progressive as for numbering, preceded by a two letter acronym describing the role of the aircraft. As far as I know only four of these internal designations are known: AA.10, IR.11, CP.12 and IC.13. I leave to you the matching of the designation with Ro.XX model numbers. Hint: late Ro.XX numbers went ALMOST always by the odds.

Dear,
many thanks for your explanation!

 

[blackkite]

I modified radiator, oil cooler and tail. Enjoy.

'kite, splendid work. My compliments.

Hi! Thanks a lot my dear skybolt-san.
I can't wait your Italian Secret Projects.Please advance great work.

 

[Airborne2001]

I remember doing research on italian heavy fighters a while ago and found some monster with 8x 20mm guns. Which one was that?

Probably it was the Breda BZ.303 Leone II https://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Breda_BZ_303

No something that was built, there was a black and a white photo i remember showing 8 clear 20 mm's mounted, 4 in wings and 4 in the nose. I seriously cant find it now. :C
Maybe it was a mockup?

Could it be this jet fighter design?:

 

[Airborne2001]

Hi

There was also a turboprop version of the design, though I am unsure if there are pictures available. ):

 

[hesham]

There was also a turboprop version of the design, though I am unsure if there are pictures available. ):

You meant BZ.303 ?.

 

[Airborne2001]

There was also a turboprop version of the design, though I am unsure if there are pictures available. ):

You meant BZ.303 ?.

Oh, thank you! I have seen that picture before, but I was unsure if the powerful turboprops planned would have been able to handle such a sleek cowling. Italian jet (and jet related) designs are truly an amazing wonder.

 

[EugeneBazaroff]

Ing. Celestino Rosatelli very well Know for the previous biplane family fighters, also projected a heavy fighter/bomber the FIAT CR.44 planned around the 2,400 hp (1,790 kW) FIAT A.44 engine capable to power a contra-rotating propellers solution. The A.44 X-32 engine never was built, so nor the CR.44.

I would borrow this for my alt. universe

 

[Giuliano Giulianelli]

Ciao! Un altro disegno IMAM.Ro57 bis con finestra grande?

 

[hesham]

The Caproni Ca.155,

FOTOGRAFIA AEREO CAPRONI CA 155 simulacro " | En venta en Delcampe"

8,00 € | Categoría: Otras Colecciones > Fotografía > Fotos > Fotos originales > Aviación

www.delcampe.net

 

[hesham]

on 20 January 1936,the Air Staff asked for a multi-engine fighter/combat aircraft capable
to operate at 470 km/h,after elimination many aircraft and projects,such as Bonomi BS.25,
Jona J.10,IMAM Ro.53,Chiodi CH-2 and Piana-Canova PC.1600,they selected the Breda Ba.88
and Fiat CR.25.

Also Umbra TR.18,Caproni-Reggiane Ca.401,Caproni Ca.150 & Ca.162 were involved.

I want to know the different between Umbra AUT.18 and TR.18,I know the first was a single
engined fighter and the second was a twin engined heavy fighter (as I guess) ?.

I get the difference,the TR.18 was a two-seat ground attack aircraft Project when Mr. Felice
Trojani was in USSR,but after he return to Italy,he redesigned his early concept as AUT.18,
but as a single-seat heavy fighter airplane ?.

Was there any drawing to it (not AUT.18) ?

 

[hesham]

Dear Friends,
here I post a 3-view of the project of an heavy fighter designed by Giovanni Galasso, who worked at the IMAM factories, and named CP.12: unfortunatly I don't know any further info about the project, but it is probably dated between 1938 and 1943 (after the italian armistice the engineer have been redeployed to Breda).
Source: "Gente dell'Aria - Vol. 5" Giorgio Evangelisti.
Best regards.
--
Lucamax

Probably you did notice that the CP-12 is the Ro.67.... Before receiving an official project number (Ro.XX), typically for being tendered to some Regia competition, the IMAM projects received an internal designation, that was progressive as for numbering, preceded by a two letter acronym describing the role of the aircraft. As far as I know only four of these internal designations are known: AA.10, IR.11, CP.12 and IC.13. I leave to you the matching of the designation with Ro.XX model numbers. Hint: late Ro.XX numbers went ALMOST always by the odds.

We can say,or expect that,

AA.10 could be IMAM Ro,61
IR.11 could be IMAM Ro.65,the same description
CP.12 it's IMAM Ro.67
IC.13 could be IMAM Ro.73

 

[Hardrada55]

The attached says that the Caproni Ca.350 was to be powered by an Isotta Fraschini L.180 18 cylinder inverted W engine with about 1450 hp for a speed of 645kph (400mph).

 

[hesham]

The attached says that the Caproni Ca.350 was to be powered by an Isotta Fraschini L.180 18 cylinder inverted W engine with about 1450 hp for a speed of 645kph (400mph).

Yes,that's from L'Ala 1948/2,

https://www.secretprojects.co.uk/threads/caproni-aircraft.2026/page-3#post-292139

 

[Airborne2001]

From antonioll on the old War Thunder Forum:

Here are some loadout options for the Sm.91. Of particular surprise (to me at least) is the ability for it to carry two Motobomba FFF torpedoes.

 

[Temistocle]

I can add the data printed on the opposite page.
Data and drawings are taken from an official Regia Aeronautica booklet (the figures are not so well defined because the copy in the archive is a fotocopy of the original document).

 

[GringoHovrr]

It seems to me that Italian aircraft from this time sometimes have less information than you think. Do we have no archives or old books that store info on these projects? Or all destroyed?

 

[Airborne2001]

It seems to me that Italian aircraft from this time sometimes have less information than you think. Do we have no archives or old books that store info on these projects? Or all destroyed?

@Skybolt may have some information, but they haven't been on the site in awhile...

 

[2drNick]

@Skybolt may have some information, but they haven't been on the site in awhile...

My question exactly
This thread is now 17years old, surely, surely that demonstrates an enduring interest in this little known pond of history….

 

[lucamax]

Dear Friends,
here I share a 3-view of the project Macchi Mc. 301 (source "Frecce, Saette, Folgori e Veltri", written by Giulio Cesare Valdonio, Rivista Aeronautica editor).
Unfortunatly the graphic quality of the book is low (I don't know why the editor chosen that type of printing....).
According to the author, the project was born on february 1939 by the pencil of Ing. Mario Castoldi and it recived a contract for 2 prototipes engined with 2 Daimler Benz DB 600.
Problems, however, arrived about the surface radiator that Castoldi adopted for the cooling system (as for the idro-racer Mc.72), wich the authority criticized a lot, because it's exposure to enemy fire: Castoldi replied that the speed of the aircraft (evaluated about 619 km/h) has would protect the radiator, but no one supported his theory.
The breakout of the war stopped the project.
Cheers.

 

[Pioneer]

Years ago i made several art work about the Santangelo heavy fighter called also "Sturmovino" for the better know Russian Sturmovik, because can do ground attack with the cannon under belly.

Very talented artwork MC72

Regards
Pioneer