Government sanctioned Area 51 documentary

[Grey Havoc]

Actually, it may all be "government sanctioned." Attend:
Let's say you are Da Gubmint. People have been pestering you forever to release Da Truth about Area 51. "Fine," you say to yourself. "But... let's screw with our enemies at the same time." So you release Da Truth. Along with a heapin' helpin' of Utter Bilge.

Release fact and fiction at the same time, in the same way, through the same source, to the same credulius recipient. Recipient will then go on to publish both fact and fiction. The facts are now out there... but in a way that they are now self-invalidating.

Plausible. Evil, but plausible.

 

[sublight]

Whether nuclear tests (credible) or fake Soviet UFOs (preposterous) ... What she claims in the book may not be "government sanctioned", contrary to the documentary.

Actually, it may all be "government sanctioned." Attend:
Let's say you are Da Gubmint. People have been pestering you forever to release Da Truth about Area 51. "Fine," you say to yourself. "But... let's screw with our enemies at the same time." So you release Da Truth. Along with a heapin' helpin' of Utter Bilge.

Release fact and fiction at the same time, in the same way, through the same source, to the same credulius recipient. Recipient will then go on to publish both fact and fiction. The facts are now out there... but in a way that they are now self-invalidating.

I don't think that "screws" with the enemies at all, they aren't that stupid. The only one it screws with are the Joe six packs. I cannot see any theoretical advantage to jacking with Joe six pack's head. Perhaps they feel operating under the cloud of "urban legends" has worked thus far and want to maintain that layer of BS?

P.S. the recipient isn't credulous... http://www.salon.com/technology/ask_the_pilot/2004/07/21/askthepilot95/

 

[sferrin]

I don't think that "screws" with the enemies at all, they aren't that stupid.

No? Go see what we thought of the Mig-25 before Belenko delivered one to us.

 

[Orionblamblam]

I don't think that "screws" with the enemies at all, they aren't that stupid.

Have you *seen* the people the US tends to pick as enemies? The Nazis, the Commies, the Jihadis have not exactly been paragons of rational thinking.

The only one it screws with are the Joe six packs. I cannot see any theoretical advantage to jacking with Joe six pack's head.

Some people are going to believe any damned thing, and obsess over it. Might as well *give* them something to obsess about, rather than let them obsess over something that actually exists. If the vast number of people who devote Odin knows how many millions of man-hours to BS like the Grassy Knoll or Roswell or alien abductions were to, instead, focus on the nonsense the government *actually* does, the government might have to actually change.

 

[sublight]

Maybe I'm giving them too much credit, but I cant imagine any foreign intelligence agency would read "Stalin, mad Nazi doctor, mutant children, and Nazi plane" and have any other response than thunderous laughter. I think it makes us look like idiots at best.

 

[Orionblamblam]

Maybe I'm giving them too much credit, but I cant imagine any foreign intelligence agency would read "Stalin, mad Nazi doctor, mutant children, and Nazi plane" and have any other response than thunderous laughter.

And thus if any actual *facts* come out in the same reporting, they are immediately discredited, as is anythign else the reporter/author might have to say on a similar topic in the future. On the off chance that the report is believed, then the enemy intelligence service will blow time, money and manpower chasing phantoms.

I think it makes us look like idiots at best.

Lots of things make people look like idiots, but they repeat 'em anyway. Watch the next political speech by [insert disfavored idiot politician HERE] for a few dozen examples.

 

[bazz]

P.S. the recipient isn't credulous... http://www.salon.com/technology/ask_the_pilot/2004/07/21/askthepilot95/

After reading that she sounds like a bloody shill.

 

[flateric]

if I was working for GRU at the area, I'd suggest massive operation using kind of micro HD digital photo- and video- cameras installed on local animals/birds to get closer to runway/hangars area. Snakes/lizards would be attractive candidates. Electromechanical copies of animals or just plain LO robots. Micro UAVs.

 

[ohpossum]

For anyone interested in hearing the crazy straight from the source, the NPR interview is entertaining..

http://www.npr.org/2011/05/17/136356848/area-51-uncensored-was-it-ufos-or-the-ussr

Other than AQUATONE and OXCART, all the other factual content of the book doesn't have anything to do with the airfield at Groom Lake at all..

 

[Stargazer]

For anyone interested in hearing the crazy straight from the source, the NPR interview is entertaining..
http://www.npr.org/2011/05/17/136356848/area-51-uncensored-was-it-ufos-or-the-ussr
Other than AQUATONE and OXCART, all the other factual content of the book doesn't have anything to do with the airfield at Groom Lake at all..

My two cents about it is that the author heard that a documentary was going to be shown, and her only chance to sell the crappy book she had been working on was to release it swiftly before the said documentary exposes how nonsensical her research really is!

 

[InvisibleDefender]

If I had some free time tonight, I’d go …. for a laugh.

DISCUSSION: Learn all about aliens and their connection to the government when journalist Annie Jacobson discusses her new book, Area 51: An Uncensored History of America’s Top Secret Military Base, which claims to feature recently declassified documents and eyewitness accounts. There will also be a screening of the National Geographic documentary Area 51 Declassified, featuring never-before-seen footage. At the International Spy Museum at 6:30 PM; free.

and from:
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-05-18/roswell-martians-may-have-been-deformed-nazi-kids-sent-by-stalin-review.html
“Which brings us to the Nazi-Soviet UFO. Citing interviews with a single unnamed former engineer from government contractor EG&G -- now part of URS Corp. (URS) -- Jacobsen purports to lift the veil on what really crashed near Roswell, New Mexico, in 1947 and what happened to the wreckage when it got to Nevada.
The craft, she writes, wasn’t an alien spaceship, as many have since theorized, nor was it a weather balloon, as the U.S. military alleged in its clumsy cover story. It was, according to Jacobsen, a Nazi-inspired Soviet spy plane with Cyrillic letters embossed on the hull, crewed by malformed adolescents, two of whom survived the crash.”

 

[Sweaty]

Has this aired? if so what are your thoughts? Worth a watch/download.

Thanks for the heads up on the Anne book, saved me £25, thanks

 

[Orionblamblam]

Has this aired? if so what are your thoughts? Worth a watch/download.

Just aired. It was ok. U-2, Oxcart/A-12. No real revelations, apart from soem photos of an A-12 crash site near Wendover. Seemed accurate enough. No wacky nonsense.

The "Aliens Attack" thing that aired before it... oy. Not so much.

 

[Johnbr]

I think it airs in the USA tonight.

 

[Vulcan652]

Nothing groundbreaking in here but I guess that was to be expected. Some interesting photos that by all accounts have never been seen before, including the A-12 crash. Thankfully the alien quota was filled in the prior programme which, from the two minutes I caught, was nothing short of bizarre. Predictably enough Area 51 Declassified focussed on the U-2 and A-12 with absolutely no mention of Tacit Blue, Bird of Prey, or even the F-117 as far as I can remember. It did highlight the Red Hats activities, with one photo of a Mig 21 and about 10 seconds of commentary. If I'd not waited in eager anticipation for weeks I might have quite enjoyed it. As it was, it was a bit of a let down. It needed another hour to cover more modern programmes, but that's probably out of the question for the next few decades...

 

[aim9xray]

The "Aliens Attack" thing that aired before it... oy. Not so much.

So you missed [20 seconds of] the Davey Crockett footage?

 

[Orionblamblam]

The "Aliens Attack" thing that aired before it... oy. Not so much.

So you missed [20 seconds of] the Davey Crockett footage?

No, I saw that and I WANT IT. Clearest DC footage I've seen yet. Of course, the notion that we should dig up a bunch of DC warheads after the aliens stomp our civilization flat is kinda silly, given that there probably *aren't* any DC warheads left.

Suicide bombers hauling old nuclear devices up to floating alien mothership by way of latex weather ballons. Ye gods, what has become of National Geographic??

 

[aim9xray]

Well, latex balloon delivery *seemed* a little more likely than transmitting a virus via a Mac AirPort.

As far as NatGeo Channel, I am told that Rupert Murdoch has majority ownership. If so, draw your own conclusions.

 

[Orionblamblam]

As far as NatGeo Channel, I am told that Rupert Murdoch has majority ownership. If so, draw your own conclusions.

Well, at least it's not George Soros...

 

[Vulcan652]

Suicide bombers hauling old nuclear devices up to floating alien mothership by way of latex weather ballons. Ye gods, what has become of National Geographic??

Yes, that's the bit I caught at the end. Wasn't sure what was going on... I also recall a bit of cheese about the human spirit in the face of adversity. Sounded like Kevin Costner's parting line in Thirteen Days.

 

[Stargazer]

'Nuff said...

 

[XP67_Moonbat]

Yeah, that Area 51 docu was OK, I guess. A little bit on the "meh" side. And from what I'm reading here, I guess I should be happy I missed the Aliens Attack program.

 

[Gridlock]

You can find plenty of Public Domain documentaries on Google by typing things like, hmm,

area 51 declassified filetype:torrent

 

[sublight]

part1 @ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-DrVY3oBn8
part2 @ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=erq2PwfIiKU
part3 @ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C3HRBz-s3oE

 

[SOC]

It needed another hour to cover more modern programmes, but that's probably out of the question for the next few decades...

I had a similar thought. I just watched it, having DVR'ed it this weekend (and I couldn't watch it Monday night, as I was enthralled by one of the greatest hours of TV of all time).

Was it interesting? Yes. All of the interviewees were genuine characters. I also loved how they brought in one of the wives: "I had no idea what he was doing". And seeing the "give us a few days to prove you're lying to us" bit acted out was almost hilarious.

Was it earth-shattering? No. No real "new" information. Very few "new" stories or anecdotes that haven't been published already. The most interesting part to me was the new OXCART imagery of the DPRK, and the way they explained and illustrated what 1 foot resolution meant was pretty good. I'd personally love to see them release those imagery files. It actually reminded me to look through a pile of documents...and re-discover that I have some BLACK SHIELD imagery of Son Tay.

The main problem I had with the show was that, as Vulcan652 points out, it seemed too short. This could easily have been, and should've been in my mind, a mini-series. All of the stories about life at Groom could've fit an episode, the U-2 and OXCART (it's borderline criminal that TAGBOARD was never mentioned) could've had their own episodes, modern programs could've had an episode, and you could even have done an episode about debunking the myths about Area 51 (the stuff about the Apollo program they did squeeze in there was amusing, as was "oh, sorry, your system is busted, I'm nowhere near that high").

Final verdict: it was an amusing hour of TV to watch, even if they didn't have anything earth-shattering to offer. I'll admit to a degree of bias, given that I'm overly amused by anything dealing with OXCART of the Blackbirds in general, though. But given the access they apparently had to do what they did with it, it could've been so much more. It does make me want to watch for a DVD release, to see if there's anything extra they didn't fit on the air.

 

[Demon Lord Razgriz]

Quiet honestly, save the bit of the reaction of the civies that picked up the crashed OXCART pilot to the cover story, F-105 with nukes, I found 'When Aliens Attack to be more interesting.

Of which, I find it amazing that NatGeo completely ignore the effects of a M1A2's M829A3 APFSDS round on those alien walkers. That whole show was ignorance at it's best, so what does that tell you of Area 51 Declassified? :-\

 

[XP67_Moonbat]

Anyone catch the drawing of the Oxcart with RATO boosters?

 

[SOC]

I saw that one, that was the carrier-based variant Kelly proposed to the Navy.

 

[Orionblamblam]

That whole show was ignorance at it's best, so what does that tell you of Area 51 Declassified? :-\

Not a lot, actually. "Area 51" was an attempt at seriousness. "Aliens" was not. This sort of bipolarism is hardly new. Look at the Sci Fi channel: on the one hand, they produce series like "Battlestar" and "Stargate Universe," which are lavished with budget and all kinds of talent. On the othe hand, they crank out "original movies" like "Megashark vs Giant Octopus."

I sometimes think that the quality shows are there just to put on a veneer; the real money is in the cheap crap. Hard to see why NatGeo would be any different.

 

[RanulfC]

The "Aliens Attack" thing that aired before it... oy. Not so much.

So you missed [20 seconds of] the Davey Crockett footage?

No, I saw that and I WANT IT. Clearest DC footage I've seen yet. Of course, the notion that we should dig up a bunch of DC warheads after the aliens stomp our civilization flat is kinda silly, given that there probably *aren't* any DC warheads left.

Suicide bombers hauling old nuclear devices up to floating alien mothership by way of latex weather ballons. Ye gods, what has become of National Geographic??

Didn't watch it even though I was looking forward to it... Ahh well I'll catch it "on-demand"...

Anyways, anyone ever read the book it came from? I have and I'm guessing the show cut a lot of material in order to fit in "cool" graphics.

Short review: If they can get here and they want our planet, we're pretty much screwed barring a "miracle" ala-hollywood. We CAN however make it VERY "expensive" for the alien bastards which is where the mention, (not really a suggested method but a "possible" if we're desperate enough) of the weather-balloon sucide bombers came up. The main take-away IMHO was it wouldn't be really crazy to prepare for a possible alien invasion scenerio, expensive, "provocative" in a "arms-race" sort of way, and it would scare the majority of already paranoid, conspiricy-folks to death but not really crazy.

Did they happen to show "flying-tanks" and power-armor?

Randy

 

[sublight]

Apparently her Nazi commie Roswell theory was ripped off from the 1956 edition of "Astounding Science Fiction". Specifically the short story "Tomb Tappers" by James Blish....

http://free-ebookslink.com/ebooks/English%20Ebooks/English%20Novals%20Ebooks/B/Blish,%20James/James%20Blish%20-%20Tomb%20Tapper.pdf

 

[quellish]

I sometimes think that the quality shows are there just to put on a veneer; the real money is in the cheap crap. Hard to see why NatGeo would be any different.

Actually, this is the most accurate TV program on the facility so far - by far. They got very little wrong, and the program had very little to do with the book. There were interviews with some of the same people, that's about it.

But if you want to see something more about the book...
http://abcnews.go.com/watch/nightline/SH5584743/VD55128950/nightline-526-unlocking-area-51s-secrets

Relevant segment starts at about 5:05

 

[sublight]

Or skip straight to the smackdown:

http://abcnews.go.com/Nightline/video/questioning-area-51s-author-13699901

 

[Orionblamblam]

I sometimes think that the quality shows are there just to put on a veneer; the real money is in the cheap crap. Hard to see why NatGeo would be any different.

Actually, this is the most accurate TV program on the facility so far - by far.

Which facility? The orbiting alien mothership facility, or the hovering city-sized facilities taken out by baloon-borne suicide nuke-bombers?

 

[XP67_Moonbat]

My money's on the motherships!

 

[Orionblamblam]

Or skip straight to the smackdown:

Ouch. It's one thing when "outsiders" to the book yell "BS!" It's quite another when your own sources yell that.

 

[Stargazer]

Or skip straight to the smackdown:

Ouch. It's one thing when "outsiders" to the book yell "BS!" It's quite another when your own sources yell that.

Ditto. And if Jacobsen DOES have "documents" as she claims, then by all means let her show them!

 

[sublight]

Ditto. And if Jacobsen DOES have "documents" as she claims, then by all means let her show them!

Yes there is a document. Its originally in a 1956 edition of "Astounding Science Fiction". See post above with link to actual short story. The kids in commie flying saucers story originated there.

 

[flateric]

my short review in three words - Expected Much More

 

[blackstar]

I'm reviewing the book for a major newspaper and a colleague is reviewing it for an intelligence journal. He has found numerous errors in her reporting on the aircraft and nuclear programs. (One example is her claim that former CIA official Albert Wheelon "gives few interviews." Well, I interviewed him, and so have a bunch of other historians. He even appeared in that Area 51 Declassified documentary.)

A lot of reviewers are essentially saying something like "the book is well-researched and filled with new information, right up until she makes a crazy allegation at the end." But that's total BS. It's a really badly-researched book by somebody who has no concept how to use sources or even how to properly frame her argument. For example, despite the crazy assertion about the Roswell crash, she does not even cite the two official USAF histories that were produced in the 1990s.

After so much positive publicity, I'm glad that the tide is turning against her.