French Secret Projects 2: Bombers, Patrol and Assault Aircraft

A

AL

ACCESS: Confidential
Joined
3 November 2007
Messages
166
Reaction score
33
https://www.amazon.co.uk/French-Secret-Projects-Bombers-Aircraft/dp/1910809063
 
for future day, until we waiting new book, could you sent content, to intrigue imagination
the first book is simply magnificent,
 
No. That's not how it works. I'm sure the author has to eat.

Let him eat cake. Sorry, I couldn't resist
 
That's Nord Minerve bomber firing its strategic missile. I had some exchanges with Mr Uhr about the missile but in the end he painted it magnificiently. Many books in the series had a blue-orientated colour and I wanted something different. I had initially suggested a night scene, with light coming only from the missile flame. But we ended with this golden hued cover. I am very pleased with Mr Uhr's work.

JCC
 
JC Carbonel said:
That's Nord Minerve bomber firing its strategic missile. I had some exchanges with Mr Uhr about the missile but in the end he painted it magnificiently. Many books in the series had a blue-orientated colour and I wanted something different. I had initially suggested a night scene, with light coming only from the missile flame. But we ended with this golden hued cover. I am very pleased with Mr Uhr's work.

JCC
Click to expand...

Thank you for the kind words! :)
I'm also pleased to work with you as well as the whole team. :)
Daniel Uhr

P.S. I added the cover to my website
http://www.duhraviationart.com
 
Review of the text completed with Tony Butler's expert help. He picked up many mistakes, some originating from well-known authors which I religiously respected and copied! So I had to go back to basic and check "famous author" assertions against period documents. Period documents won every time. I expect layouting will start in early 2017

Will feature various aircraft or aircraft families like Mirage IV bombers (including 4-engine versions asked for after Vol 1), the already mentionned Minerve(s), Low-speed VTOLs, Breguet Integral, Maritime patrol aircraft (I had been promised new material on the Alizé but it has not yet arrived so it won't be in), Alouette(s), Djinn, Lynx (French-designed attack version), Puma (with guns) and other helicopters, Couzinet Aerodyne and other saucers, Nuclear-powered planes, Nord Apterion and other things intended to fly without wings, ECAT (Jaguar contenders), Fouga Magister variants.

I'll keep you posted.

JCC
 
JC Carbonel said:
Review of the text completed with Tony Butler's expert help. He picked up many mistakes, some originating from well-known authors which I religiously respected and copied! So I had to go back to basic and check "famous author" assertions against period documents. Period documents won every time. I expect layouting will start in early 2017
JCC
Click to expand...

You've got to watch those "famous author" quotes, J.C. - they'll get you every time. Next time, you'll be the "famous author" that others will be quoting! Seriously, we all respect and admire your body of work. Now, if you could only get Histoire & Collections to do your Heller books in English.....
 
there are many in France who would like to see FSP becoming "les projets secrets de l'aviation française"...

JCC
 
JC Carbonel said:
So I had to go back to basic and check "famous author" assertions against period documents. Period documents won every time.
Click to expand...

This. Turns out "famous authors" have never been very big on factual accuracy.
 
I am very impressed with this series concept. I look forward to the Couzinet Aerodyne and others.






Best,
Ed
 
Hello all !

the layout review is nearly complete !
What follow is a selection of pages I printed for this review.

DSC00351.JPG


DSC00352.JPG


DSC00354.JPG


DSC00356.JPG


DSC00358.JPG


DSC00360.JPG


DSC00362.JPG


DSC00364.JPG


DSC00366.JPG


DSC00368.JPG


And here is the list of chapters :

Introduction (includes a section on prototypes built by the Frenchs for the Germans during the war)
1 - the first jet bomber (SO4000 and others)
2- a more reasonable approach (Vautour, Grognard etc...)
3- the quest for the supersonic bomber (SO 4060, Mirage IV etc...)
4- the Minerve Programme (Breguet, Dassault, Nord, Sud and the missiles underneath...)
5- ECAT (Magister, Alphajet, Jaguar and the loosers...)
6- In the field (Baroudeur, ramp launch, catapult launch ....)
7- COIN is minted (various...all no go)
8- Low speed VTOL (BTZ part 2, Caillette part 2, Labat, Bertin, Nord500 , Eurofar etc...)
9- Helicopters (WG-13, armed SA-330, flying cranes etc...)
10-Assault transports (Br941 , Hurel-Dubois, civilian Transall, even military Caravelle ...)
11- Maritime Patrol and ASM (Alizé and Atlantic with radomes and protuberances, and numerous unproduced designs...)
12- Atomic Power (Sud nuclear Super-Caravelle , Sud Attila missile
13- I dreamt of saucers (Coanda, Couzinet, Pagès (!), Payen, SNECMA, Wibault)
14- Strangeways (flying infantry , flying car, flying armoured car, flying platform....)

I hope you'll like it.

JCC
 

Loved French secret projects 1, no.2 looks & sounds like it's going to be great.
Looking forward to buying it :)
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Well I have seen more enthusiasm ! This volume was much more difficult to research than the "fighter" volume because many subjects in it have never been properly covered in "monographies".
High lights of the book should be :
- Hertel flying wing projects at SNCASE
- annular wing bomber from a mysterious Messier (undercarriages) subsidiary
- four-engined Mirage bombers from Dassault
- 25 pages (!) about Minerve, including TCS/PSS (early Concorde) carrying missiles
- ramp launch systems and powered sleds à la Gerry Anderson Thunderbirds
- light (and very light) attack aircraft from Fouga
- after the high-speed versions seen in Vol 1, you get low-speed variants of Statodynes, Coléoptères and Aéroblic (some real weird)
- all Nord-Aviation ducted-fan designs
- "Cobra" style attack helicopters
- all the Hurel-Dubois "letter-opener" winged aircraft
- AWACS style projects with large rotodomes from Breguet
- nuclear powered projects from Sud
- flying armoured car from Nord

JCC
 
JC Carbonel said:
Well I have seen more enthusiasm ! This volume was much more difficult to research than the "fighter" volume because many subjects in it have never been properly covered in "monographies".
Click to expand...

I am, in general, more connoisseur in the field of fighters. For the other items, even if I search since years the four engines Mirage IV, it's more difficult for me to say what is already known or not, even if it can be very new for me. When I'll receive this book at home it will be easier for me to speak about it.

I needed a long time to compare the first book with my files (at first with the two Cuny's books 1944-60). I'll need a much longer time to compare these files (the two Cuny's books again but this time with a lot of other files too, in particular from Secretprojects topics) with this new book.

For the Payen Pa.49, I think that it's the first time that we can see a drawing with the différences between the A and the B :)
 
I only did a very rough calculation but I estimate that 30% of this book is all-new, either coming straight from archive vaults or, in some case, coming from contemporary (to the project) publications. The rest comes from various friends and I have to assume it may have appeared in historical publications (even if sometimes obscure publications). Because previous experiences, I have learned to take Cuny with caution, so I tried to stay away from his book...unfortunately it has just not always been possible.

JCC
 
JC Carbonel said:
I only did a very rough calculation but I estimate that 30% of this book is all-new, either coming straight from archive vaults or, in some case, coming from contemporary (to the project) publications. The rest comes from various friends and I have to assume it may have appeared in historical publications (even if sometimes obscure publications). Because previous experiences, I have learned to take Cuny with caution, so I tried to stay away from his book...unfortunately it has just not always been possible.

JCC
Click to expand...

I'm looking forward to reading the content concerning German types worked on by the French during the Second World War. I see some bits of CIOS XVII-1 German Activities in the French Aircraft Industry in there. Unfortunate that you mention the 'Amerika-Bomber programme' in connection with the Ta 400, since it was never intended for bombing America. Similarly, the He 274 was a pressurised altitude bomber intended for attacking targets in the UK above the reach of interceptors. Its range was never anything like sufficient for attacking America (range 2200 to 2500 miles - about 1000 miles short of New York).
Anything on projects that fall outside the scope of CIOS XVII-1, such as the Bf 109 S, Me 155 or Me 209?
 
Re : Ta 400 "in Luftwaffe over Amerika" (Manfred Griehl) the Ta 400 is described in a number of pages as being debated at length by the Luftwaffe high command (Milch, Goering...) as to wether it should be produced to drop a few bombs over New York...

JCC
 
JC Carbonel said:
Re : Ta 400 "in Luftwaffe over Amerika" (Manfred Griehl) the Ta 400 is described in a number of pages as being debated at length by the Luftwaffe high command (Milch, Goering...) as to wether it should be produced to drop a few bombs over New York...

JCC
Click to expand...

Don't get me wrong, the aircraft referenced by Griehl, the Fernkampfflugzeug originally designed by Focke-Wulf, was intended to drop a few bombs over New York. But by the time it became the Ta 400 (known to the French as the Fw 300A) it was a completely different design (still called Fernkampfflugzeug though). Griehl doesn't seem to have understood this distinction and stuck 'Ta 400' into the debate (or his editor/translator did) when that designation doesn't appear in the original transcript - its just referred to as the Focke-Wulf long-range bomber.
It's a shame really, because this sort of thing - subtly altering the original text when transcribed - has resulted in endless confusion.
 
Yes in the few French-sourced documents I have, it is labelled as a Fw 300...but not an airliner by any way!
JCC
 
i hope to see in future " French Secret Projects " about period 1919 - 1940 .
 
I have begun researching the period 1930-1942 but it is very difficult. The industry archives did not survive well the German invasion and the multiple post-war reorganisations. So yes, this inter-war book is in the sights but may requires some more years to write (you may note that while the first two "French Secret Projects" have been repeatedly been described as the "continuation" of the Cuny works, here there is nothing structured on which to base the initial research except the German 1940 report of which no one appears to have a complete copy.)

JCC
 
Amazon writes that the book is available from today.

Is it right ?
 
Seems to be correct, thanks for the clue !
 

Attachments

  • FSP2.png
    FSP2.png
    5.2 KB · Views: 447
I got an Order update from Amazon that the delivery for FSP:2 Bombers is new between 18th July to 5th August, and I won't believe that till I get despatch confirmation.
 
Everything has been okeyed by Crécy weeks ago (latest was the cover and back-cover in late-May, early June), so if there is any delay it is not the design side which caused it ...
I'll tell you when I receive mine although as the author I may be the last served... (joke)

JCC
 
In the August 2017 issue of the French magazine "Le Fana de l'Aviation", there is the 3-page article "La force atomique fantôme" about aircraft projects for the French Force de Frappe. It is written by Philippe Gallien. The article is from page 35 to 37 in the magazine.
One concept is á la "B-58C Hustler". ;) B) Again, great drawings by Alain Rataineau aka alanqua. :)

Looking foward to read about the French bomber projects in forthcoming book French Secret Projects 2.


Edited and more info added for better understanding. It was late last night. :)
 
fightingirish said:
In the August 2017 issue of the French magazine "Le Fana de l'Aviation", there is an 3-page article about aircraft projects for the French Force de Frappe.
Again, great drawings by Alain Rataineau aka alanqua. :)
Looking foward to read about the French bomber projects in forthcoming book.
One concept is á la "B-58C Hustler". ;) B)
Click to expand...
From where did you get this ?

The issue from July 2017 of Le Fana announced for the issue of August : The secrets of the french nuclear forces 1964-2017. But Nothing was revealed about the contents of this article.

Edit maybe I did not understand good : the concept à la "B-58 C" is in Le Fana from August or in the book French secret projects 2 (M. Carbonel has already spoken here of a pre-project four engines Mirage IV "à la B-58" in the book 2) ?
 

Similar threads

Please donate to support the forum.

Back
Top Bottom