French Secret Projects 2: Bombers, Patrol and Assault Aircraft

JC Carbonel said:
I have begun researching the period 1930-1942 but it is very difficult. The industry archives did not survive well the German invasion and the multiple post-war reorganisations. So yes, this inter-war book is in the sights but may requires some more years to write (you may note that while the first two "French Secret Projects" have been repeatedly been described as the "continuation" of the Cuny works, here there is nothing structured on which to base the initial research except the German 1940 report of which no one appears to have a complete copy.)

JCC
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The efforts are valued. I'm sure it is very difficult work but there are hints of a lot of fascinating projects during that period.
 
fightingirish said:
In the August 2017 issue of the French magazine "Le Fana de l'Aviation", there is the 3-page article "La force atomique fantôme" about aircraft projects for the French Force de Frappe. It is written by Philippe Gallien. The article is from page 35 to 37 in the magazine.
One concept is á la "B-58C Hustler". ;) B) Again, great drawings by Alain Rataineau aka alanqua. :)

Looking foward to read about the French bomber projects in forthcoming book French Secret Projects 2.


Edited and more info added for better understanding. It was late last night. :)
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Only Nord Project is appeared in drawing form.
 
I have identified two "B-58-Mirage IV" both designated "Mirage IV 02 version C", they both have four ATAR 09 for propulsion, two in fuselage, two in wing pods. They differ in the shape of the fuselage and in the position of the wing (low or shoulder mounted).
I have a "Vigilante-Mirage IV" with four engines side by side in a slab-sided fuselage. This is called the "Super-Mirage IV". This version was I think part of the Minerve programme. (still two or three weeks to wait for Vol.2)

JCC
 
JC Carbonel said:
I have identified two "B-58-Mirage IV" both designated "Mirage IV 02 version C", they both have four ATAR 09 for propulsion, two in fuselage, two in wing pods. They differ in the shape of the fuselage and in the position of the wing (low or shoulder mounted).
I have a "Vigilante-Mirage IV" with four engines side by side in a slab-sided fuselage. This is called the "Super-Mirage IV". This version was I think part of the Minerve programme. (still two or three weeks to wait for Vol.2)

JCC
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If I hadn't already ordered the book I would now be doing so :)
Sounds like a great book
 
JC Carbonel said:
I have identified two "B-58-Mirage IV" both designated "Mirage IV 02 version C", they both have four ATAR 09 for propulsion, two in fuselage, two in wing pods. They differ in the shape of the fuselage and in the position of the wing (low or shoulder mounted).
I have a "Vigilante-Mirage IV" with four engines side by side in a slab-sided fuselage. This is called the "Super-Mirage IV". This version was I think part of the Minerve programme. (still two or three weeks to wait for Vol.2)

JCC
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You know what, I'm happy ! :)
 
DASSAULT_SUPERMIRAGEIV.jpg


some teasing.

JCC
 

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wow!!!
MY opinion French Secret Projects 1 and 2 is the best discovery
First book is in my collection, every pages and drawing is new look
Second will be Soon
MR JC Carbonel, thank very much, for this magnificent book
 
fightingirish said:
In the August 2017 issue of the French magazine "Le Fana de l'Aviation", there is the 3-page article "La force atomique fantôme" about aircraft projects for the French Force de Frappe. It is written by Philippe Gallien. The article is from page 35 to 37 in the magazine.
One concept is á la "B-58C Hustler". ;) B) Again, great drawings by Alain Rataineau aka alanqua. :)
Looking foward to read about the French bomber projects in forthcoming book French Secret Projects 2.

Edited and more info added for better understanding. It was late last night. :)
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Here a screenshot of page 36 and 37 of that article showing the drawing of the Nord Aviation nuclear bomber Project, I mentioned before. This drawing and one of the "Mirage 4000N" are by Alain Rataineau aka alanqua. :) B)
The other 3-view drawing shows the Dassault Mirage IVB project.
Link: https://scontent-frx5-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t31.0-8/20023936_1481821871884599_8917915186069893886_o.png?oh=4797f557ef0b6de09eda5b90dbc2b455&oe=5A011F39
This screenshot is published on "Le Fana de l'Aviation"'s Facebook site. Due to copyright and forum rules, I will not post it as a picture attachment to this post. :)
 
Interesting to compare the Nord Minerve rendered by Alain Ratinaud in dark camouflage (à la Mirage IV in the seventies) to the cover of FSP2 by Daniel Uhr (in natural metal early sixties style).

More teasing : Attila, Sud-Aviation nuclear-powered missile. page 236 of FSP2
SUD_ATTILA.JPG


JCC
 

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I loved the first book and also discovered the marvellous French language graphic novels
about the French Air Force and Navy pilots (BD) various series and ordered on Amazon
to try and recover my schoolboy French.
Cannot wait until the second volume. I am hoping that there might be some info on the
proposed production Mirage III vstol to replace F100s in the Armee de l'Air
 
I don't understand the Mirage VTOL were covered in page 222 to 226 of Vol 1.
aeroblic_1.JPG

But in Vol 2 you will get to see various low-speed VTOL (which is small transports such the Aéroblic featured above and attack aircraft like the N500 M) and Dassault will also return with the Mirage IV saga and the Minerve programme.

JCC
 

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Sorry for the confusion. I read somewhere that the
production Mirage vstolbwas intended to be a two
searer strike aircraft carrying a single nuclear bomb rather
than a fighter like the protypes. I wondered if you had come
across this one.
 
From JCC '...small transports such the Aéroblic...'

Much better looking than BSEL's Flying Pig.

I'd be interested in how the Aeroblic works.

Chris
 
Basically the Aeroblic is a ducted fan aircraft with the fan having the same axis as the fuselage. At the rear of the duct are mounted large deflectors so that the airflow is both slightly compressed (the wing "in the shape of a whistle" as Labat put it also acts to compress the airflow) and strongly deflected downward. Labat did not consider his machine as a pure VTOL but an aircraft "able to hover with near-null translation speed".
See my Coléoptère book page 128-129 (Everything overlaps you see and many VTOL got a more detailed treatment in this book than in FSP)

JCC
 
If you want ugly things look at the chapter fourteen with Gaston Chevrollier's flyiable ground-vehicles, the MS850 "flying jeep" and the Nord Norapter (the result of the un-natural mating of a Marmon-Herrington truck and a Hawker P1127 engine !

JCC
 
Thanks for the teasers and extra details.
Any update on the release date of the book?
Amazon sent me another holding email.
 
"Any update on the release date of the book? "

That's unfortunately beyond the author !!!! :-\

JCC
 
JC Carbonel said:
"Any update on the release date of the book? "

That's unfortunately beyond the author !!!! :-\

JCC
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I'm sure it's more frustrating for you than for us.
Again many thanks for your wonderful books and your contributions on this website.
 
Wonderful ! :eek:

It's a much better photo than the bad photo from Le Mirage F1 (et les Mirage de seconde génération à voilure en flèche) of Liebert and Buyck (Lela Presse 2007). In this book it is named as : DVI (?) variant of the Mirage IVF2.
 
The model is marked on the fin as "M.VI" which I take to mean "Minerve VI" it correspond to two drawings labelled "Minerve VI" (14 March 1963) and "D.VI" (undated)

JCC
 
JC Carbonel said:
The model is marked on the fin as "M.VI" which I take to mean "Minerve VI" it correspond to two drawings labelled "Minerve VI" (14 March 1963) and "D.VI" (undated)
JCC
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Thanks a lot, once more again.
 
JC Carbonel said:
Interesting to compare the Nord Minerve rendered by Alain Ratinaud in dark camouflage (à la Mirage IV in the seventies) to the cover of FSP2 by Daniel Uhr (in natural metal early sixties style).

More teasing : Attila, Sud-Aviation nuclear-powered missile. page 236 of FSP2
SUD_ATTILA.JPG


JCC
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Hello,
Sorry to reply so late. I did the drawing you mentioned for Le Fana (I post here the high resolution picture, as on the magazine, only a small plan was posted). In fact, the idea was to depict a sexy version of the Minerve in operation. I proposed one project (there were many different versions and shapes, I can post them if you want). I wanted to depict the plane in operational colours, so I used the book from Herve Beaumont on the Mirage IV for inspiration. It was fun to do, although I'm not entirely satisfied with the quality of the drawing. I'm planning to draw some whatifs (British version, CEV version).
Regards
Alain
 

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My remark related to a common problem with what-if colouring : should the design been illustrated in contemporary colours or in futuristic colours (which may be more realistic in term of development schedule). David selected (but I suggested it to him) a sixties livery in natural metal (because we are dealing with a 1962-63 designed aircraft) but it seems logical to assume that would it have been produced, the Minerve aircraft would have passed most of its life under camo as you represented it.

JCC
 
JC Carbonel you dit it again !

Your book about Coléoptére is fantastic
follow by masterpiece about French Secret Projects 1.
And Now this Diamant: French Secret Projects 2.
I have to buy that Book fast ;D

oh by the Way
Include FSP2 also this bomber ?
index.php
 
Thank you for your kind words. The ATAR bomber arrived a bit late for inclusion in FSP (It seems the original material from which the Fana artist worked has been lost) so it is only mentionned on page 6.

I hope to give it better coverage in a future work

JCC
 
JC Carbonel said:
My remark related to a common problem with what-if colouring : should the design been illustrated in contemporary colours or in futuristic colours (which may be more realistic in term of development schedule). David selected (but I suggested it to him) a sixties livery in natural metal (because we are dealing with a 1962-63 designed aircraft) but it seems logical to assume that would it have been produced, the Minerve aircraft would have passed most of its life under camo as you represented it.
JCC.
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Hello,
I would say it depends on the orientation that the writter or editor wants to take. I always think that having one whatif adds some "fancy" aspect to an article (you have to stay realistic, though). In the case of the Minerve proposal from Nord Aviation, I thought it was simply more fun and original to not depict it in aluminum. Then, I had few choices, and a camouflage version was more realistic.
(PS: thanks for those who liked the drawing. I will issue some other profiles when I finish them, all suggestions are welcomed)
Regards
Alain
 
You are probably right : the "reality cursor" is something very personal. For the SO Trident book I welcomed the "Tigermeet" profile but turned down an Italian Trident because I had no proof it had even been offered to the Italian AF. On the other hand, there was no objection to the BundesLuftwaffe version because I knew it had been offered to the German, I even had seen a copy of the pilot's manual in German!

JCC

PS : more teasing : Super Caravelle with X416 missile (FSP2 page 86)
SUPERCARAVELLE_MINERVE_X416.jpg

(Sud-Aviation drawing via Ph. Ricco)
 

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Just received a word from Crécy telling me they had received the book from the printers and will be sending me my author's copy "soon" (next week I presume)
JCC
 
.

I received my copy this morning - it looks very nice, lots and lots of reading ahead.

One oddity (of no consequence) the spine is printed upside down, and as a consequence (I assume) the dust cover was put on upside down. Well the dust cover took seconds to sort out. As for the hardcover spine, well for those who like exposed books its no more odd than European books which have their cover printing facing the "wrong" way, just with the "2" the wrong way up.
 
Got mine today and the spine is fine and dust cover were OK so you might have a misprinted copy.

Just had a flick through and should be an enjoyable and varied read, only surprise was the pic of JCC on the inside flap with the mona lisa smile, i'm so used to seeing him with a full on smile at SMW each November :D
 
Received mine yesterday. I've only a flick through so far but its certainly a treasure trove of projects and so much it is new to me (and I suspect many).
I'd rate it probably even higher than Vol.1 in terms of the breadth of content alone. An excellent book.
 
Well, it's available. It's time for me to order mine :)

https://www.bookdepository.com/French-Secret-Projects-2-Bombers-Patrol-Assault-Aircraft-Jean-Christophe-Carbonel/9781910809068
 

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