Flitzer's Hütter Hü 211 artwork

[Flitzer]

I've made a start. A complete guess as to the correct span and chord...and where the leading edge starts in relation to the rear of the cockpit.


Corrective advice a must please...


P

 

[Jemiba]

..A complete guess as to the correct span and chord...and where the leading edge starts in relation to the rear of the cockpit.

I thought about that line in the side view as the wing ?

 

[Justo Miranda]

My opinion...

 

[Flitzer]

Bravo Justo.
Thank you.


P

 

[Flitzer]

Progress update.
Early days yet.
Not sure about cockpit arrangement, so done 2 versions, neither correct I'm sure.


Many thanks
P

 

[Jemiba]

I would prefer the second, more heavily framed version, as more close to
other, existing types.

 

[Flitzer]

That was my line of thinking too Jens.
I'm learning....

 

[Justo Miranda]

Nein!...nein! ;D

 

[Flitzer]

Ja Justo Ja.


It all makes sense seeing through your eyes....even to me ;D .


P

 

[Jemiba]

Yes, Justo's right with the stepped seating arrangement. But to my opinion, the front view
don't show to independent canopies, à la Douglas XB-42, but the gunners station was more
bulged out. Maybe the principle shape would have been similar to the nose of the Bristol Blenheim ?

 

[Justo Miranda]

Maybe flat armoured windscreen and separate cabins?

 

[Jemiba]

No separate cockpits, I'm pretty sure. Just compare the front and the side view and you'll
see, that there is no gap between the two crew stations.

 

[Justo Miranda]

Separate rooms ? ...that is the question

 

[Jemiba]

Maybe Hütter was a company, which had its own ideas, but generally for German
combat aircraft, the "Kampfkopf" (combat cockpit ?) was preferred, where all, or at
least most crewmembers shared the same compartement. Arguments by the
German Airforce was, that communication and teamwork was easier, its foes turned those
aruments down, saying it was simply to prevent crewmembers from showing signs of
cowardice ...

 

[Artie Bob]

Hütter was not a aircraft company, but a pair of brothers who worked together as engineers and designers at various locations. Most of their military designs were unsolicited proposals. In Nazi Germany, the normal procedure was the RLM designated which companies were considered as qualified to submit designs for official specifications. Many companies were only considered as licensed producers of aircraft with no design function.
Best regards,
Artie Bob

 

[Jemiba]

You're right, Ulrich Hütter seems to have been the leading man of both. He was professor at the technical
highschool Weimar, leading the aerodynamic branch there and later designer for the Ventimotor GmbH,
mainly involved in the development of wind power plants. From 1943 up to the end of the war, he worked
for the research institute "Graf Zeppelin" and here it was, where he started work on the Hütter Hü 211.
But he was never head of an own company.
There seem to have been similarities to the Horten brothers.

 

[Justo Miranda]

Maybe Hütter was a company, which had its own ideas, but generally for German
combat aircraft, the "Kampfkopf" (combat cockpit ?) was preferred, where all, or at
least most crewmembers shared the same compartement. Arguments by the
German Airforce was, that communication and teamwork was easier, its foes turned those
aruments down, saying it was simply to prevent crewmembers from showing signs of
cowardice ...

OK you win

 

[Justo Miranda]

Hi Flitzer some inspirating stuff here

 

[Justo Miranda]

Hi Flitzer some inspirating stuff here

 

[Justo Miranda]

Hi Flitzer some inspirating stuff here

 

[Jemiba]

OK you win

Let me remind, that it was you, who noticed the asymmetrical cockpit.

Good starting point, I think, could be the canopy of the Do 17Z Kauz II, you've
posted in #41.

 

[Flitzer]

So I now know which way we are to go.... .

 

[Jemiba]

My thoughts, what that quite strange cockpit could look like :

 

[Flitzer]

Thanks Jens,
just the prod I need.


I think and hope, once we crack the canopy the rest of the aircraft will be a comparative breeze...

I've done 2 preliminaries...


P

 

[Flitzer]

As a matter of curiosity, how would the crew get in and out?
Would there be two separate hatches or some kind of joint one?
I ask because there is a slight overlap on the seat backs and the fact that the pilot canopy section is lower.


Many thanks
P

 

[Jemiba]

The gunners part of the cockpit isn't only higher, but longer, too. If the
second crew member would have fulfilled the tasks of the gunner, the
radio operator and maybe navigator, it may have been useful to install
a sliding seat. The forward position could have been used for the radio/
nav sets, the raer position for aiming and firing the flexible armament.
Tried to sketch the hatches, would probably have needed two separate
ones.

 

[Flitzer]

Thanks Jens.
Are you saying the crew would possibly number 3?


If the pilot hatch is a top loader, wouldn't the more conventional side lifting second man's hatch snag with it?
Just a thought.
Or, as the second man's area is bigger, would a common hatch be possible, so all crew could enter at the same point? Especially if its one cabin albeit with two distinct sections?

P

 

[Flitzer]

Hi again.

First attempt proper at the cockpit.
Corrective advise welcomed.
It probably needs a few extra frame pieces.


Many thanks
P

 

[Justo Miranda]

Perfect!

 

[Flitzer]

Thanks Justo.
Since coming on site I think my work has improved dramatically.
Attention to detail and huge help and great knowledge goes a long way.
And its largely down to you and Jens and I am truly grateful.


Many thanks
P ;D

 

[Flitzer]

Hi....again, already.
The next thing I'm a little concerned about is the undercarriage.


Any thoughts?


Many thanks
P :-\

 

[Jemiba]

Thanks Jens.
Are you saying the crew would possibly number 3?

No, just that MAYBE the second crew member could have changed his position, according to his task:
More forward when he worked as radio operator, more rearward as gunner. I think, there were aircraft
which used rotating seats for this purpose, so facing backwards he would handle the gun, facing forward
he would deal with the R/T sets.

If the pilot hatch is a top loader, wouldn't the more conventional side lifting second man's hatch snag with it?
Just a thought.

If the second man's hatch would open to the left, I don't think it would snag with the top loader hatch and
combined it would give a quite large opening.

A common hatch really would have to be quite large and heavy and so probably not easy to handle, especially
in the case of an emergency.

 

[Justo Miranda]

F-104 or F-111 dynamic

 

[Flitzer]

Understood...


Latest update below.


Many thanks
P

 

[Justo Miranda]

Note extreme unusual "non-inverted" V DB-601 A engines!

 

[Justo Miranda]

Some small adjustements...

 

[Flitzer]

Thanks Justo.
I'll incorporate them....

P

 

[amsci99]

Was just wondering whether there were any articles devoted to the Hütter Hu-211 and other Hütter Projects from periodicals such as Luftfahrt International, Fluzeug Classic and the likes? I am told that there was some treatment on the Hu-211 from the Roland Kemp title on the He-219.

 

[airman]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/H%C3%BCtter_H%C3%BC_211

 

[Jemiba]

The next thing I'm a little concerned about is the undercarriage.

Me, too ! The main wheels seem to raise vertically into the wheel well. Maybe with a
knee joint lower and a telescopic upper strut ?