Firearms secret projects

[Bottleship]

Modern (2018) Russian experiments:
Modernization of rifle cartridges with use a "pasty fuel":



Data of rifle - M1891, barrel lenght 730 mm, standart cartridge 7.62x54R - 9.6 g, 865 mps. Weight of powder - 3.25 g, maximum pressure 342.4 MPa, 3591 J.
Replacement of 0.5 g of powder - 927/929 mps, 337.3/331 MPa, 4125/4143 J.
Replacement of 1 g of powder - 973/978 mps, 326.7/326.8 MPa, 4544/4591 J.
Replacement of 1.5 of powder - 1003/1000 mps, 325.3/326.2 MPa, 4829/4800 J.
You can see - muzzle velocity is increasing, pressure is decreasing. If use a replacement of 3.25 g, to "pasty fuel"...
...
Systems with divided load (with membrane, +20% of muzzle velocity), based on VPO-208 .366 TKM rifle:


Increase of load and muzzle velocity without increase of pressure. Data in experiments - 15 g, 732 mps, 4019 J, most powerful variant of standart .366 TKM cartridge - 13 g, 650 mps, 2746 J.

 

[Grey Havoc]

Hotchkiss Universal SMG, via an old (2012) video from Forgotten Weapons:

 

[jsport]

Re: recoilless mortars and rifles

The US Army Ordnance Department was also developing 81mm and 60mm recoilless rifles at the end of WW2 on the same basis as the 4.2 inch recoilless mortar.

All three were being worked on by the Bud Webb (sp?) auto parts company.

The propellant for all three mortars was also used in the "Superbazooka" round the NDRC has developed for the 2.36 inch rocket launcher.

All of the above was dropped like a hot rock when the war ended.

In 1949 the improved 4.2 inch mortar was declared an infantry weapon after a shoot off between the WW2 4.2 inch chemical mortar (M2) the Ordnance 105mm and 155mm mortars and the improved 4.2 inch chemical mortar.

What later became the M27 106mm Recoilless rifle displaced the M4 Recoilless Mortar for infantry use as a direct fire weapon.

US Chemical Warfare Service developed special recoilless mortars during the world war II. This first weapon was tripod mounted 4.2-inch mortar.

http://www.mortarsinminiature.com/images/M4%204.2-RM-5.jpg

http://www.mortarsinminiature.com/images/M4%204.2-RM-1.jpg

Designer of this weapon seems to have been Dr. Clarence Hickman who also worked with Robert Goddard. I have also seen a reference to 60mm bipod mounted version.

"Recoilless weapons had been investigated by the American Army in WWI. In WWII the idea was revived by the Germans, the British and then by the Ordnance Department. When the CWS began development of a horizontal mortar, it realized that the principle involved in a recoilless gun might be applied and, in October 1943, Gen. Kabrich asked Dr. C. N. Hickman, chief of section H, division 3, NDRC, to undertake the development of a mortar having no recoil. That same month, the first recoilless attachment to fit on the breech of the standard mortar was designed and, in November, firing trials were started.

Step by step, the ignition system, firing mechanism, reaction chamber and shell were perfected. The shell was fired in the usual manner. A small rocket, called a rocket driver by the designers, was attached to the fuze. When the mortar was fired, the rocket driver hurled the shell back into the barrel where it struck the firing pin. The firing pin then detonated the propellant charge and started the shell forward. The rocket driver fell off while the shell was in the air, exposing the fuze."

History of the 4.2" Chemical Mortar

But the most interesting weapon is described in this patent:

Google Patents

Search and read the full text of patents from around the world with Google Patents, and find prior art in our index of non-patent literature.

www.google.com

It seems to describe a shoulder fired recoilless infantry rifle and the designer is Maurice E. Barker of United States Army. I did some detective work concerning this person and i found this PDF:

http://www.cheg.uark.edu/academy/documents/BarkerMauriceEugene.pdf

Does anyone have any information about this weapon? Did it ever even evolve into a real thing?

 

[DWG]

" A small rocket, called a rocket driver by the designers, was attached to the fuze. When the mortar was fired, the rocket driver hurled the shell back into the barrel where it struck the firing pin. "

I'll bet that made misfires fun. I can't see how that is less complicated than loading the tube from the rear and using a trigger-operated firing pin, not a fixed one. They'll have needed a completely revised breech anyway in order for it to be recoilless.

 

[TomS]

" A small rocket, called a rocket driver by the designers, was attached to the fuze. When the mortar was fired, the rocket driver hurled the shell back into the barrel where it struck the firing pin. "

I'll bet that made misfires fun. I can't see how that is less complicated than loading the tube from the rear and using a trigger-operated firing pin, not a fixed one. They'll have needed a completely revised breech anyway in order for it to be recoilless.

The revised breech was pretty basic; an expansion chamber and venturi nozzle screwed on to the butt end of the tube.

You can see video of if in the dedicated thread here: https://www.secretprojects.co.uk/threads/experimental-m4-4-2-inch-recoilless-mortar.34549/

 

[jsport]

Ring Airfoil Grenade

 

[Grey Havoc]

With regards as to the eighties/early nineties ACR competition, four of the prototypes that were tested are shown below:

Advanced Combat Rifle Prototypes

In this in-depth article and video episodes we will examine the history of the US Advanced Combat Rifle program.

armourersbench.com

 

[Bottleship]

Simonov 1946 rifles, based on M1891/30 rifles, in 7.62x39, 10-round magazines, like a magazine of PTRS-41 anti-tank rifle:

 

[Bottleship]

Frolov 7.62 mm carbine (SMG), 1912-1914:

Unknown Russian gun (SMG?), maybe, 1930-40s:

 

[Bottleship]

Russian XVII century firearms:
Rifled pistol, 1630-1640, gunmaker Nikita Davydov

Two rifled pistols, between 1625 and 1630, gunmakers Timofey Luchaninov and Pervusha Isayev




Two six-shot revolvers, gunmaker Nikita Davydov

Rifled carbine, 1654, gunmakers Andron and Larion Dementyevs

Breech-loading carbine, gunmaker Ivan Luchaninov (like a Krnka M1867 rifle):

 

[Stenda G]

Unknown Russian gun (SMG?), maybe, 1930-40s:

It`s ROKS-3 man-portable flamethrower

 

[World B4]

Unknown Russian gun (SMG?), maybe, 1930-40s:

It`s ROKS-3 man-portable flamethrower

In the spirit of inclusiveness, I found something for both of you
There's a shit ton of interesting weapons on this site, but at the top of this page is one of my favorites, a combination of the two

FINNISH ARMY 1918-1945: WEAPONS FINNISH ARMY ALMOST HAD IN WORLD WAR 2, PART 3

 

[Grey Havoc]

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Z_gCn5j2jc

 

[Bottleship]

Two poor quality images with new Russian carbine, based on RSh-12 revolver:


And, image with RSh-12 revolver:

 

[Bottleship]

Kalashnikov Group SV-18 rifle, 12.7x108:

I see also AK-308 in this image.

 

[Brickmuppet]

Two poor quality images with new Russian carbine, based on RSh-12 revolver:
View attachment 641148
View attachment 641149
And, image with RSh-12 revolver:
View attachment 641150

That foregrip....
Cylinder gap says hi.

 

[Bottleship]

Cylinder gap says hi

RSh-12 is recoil-operated automatic revolver, cylinder is very tight to the barrel, there is no cylinder gap.

 

[codyson]

does anyone have any good pictures of the AEK-958 Ive read there was 2 or 3 versions but i can only find crap photos. Alos what is its relation if it has any to the AEK-918, 956, 961, 971, 977,978 rifles?
also does anyone have a pic of the AEK971 prototype which had a short muzzle device on it.. i saw it in a youtube video

 

[Bottleship]

does anyone have any good pictures of the AEK-958 Ive read there was 2 or 3 versions but i can only find crap photos. Alos what is its relation if it has any to the AEK-918, 956, 961, 971, 977,978 rifles?
also does anyone have a pic of the AEK971 prototype which had a short muzzle device on it.. i saw it in a youtube video

AEK-971 constructed in project "Modern", AEK-958 constructed in project "Abakan". AEK - name of many weapons, builted in Kovrov.
AEK-958:

AEK-973 (AEK-971 in 7.62x39) with short muzzle device:

AEK-971/973, second - with experimental non-standard muzzle device.


SA-006 rifle - early variant of AEK-971, with old non-standard muzzle device:

 

[codyson]

does anyone have any good pictures of the AEK-958 Ive read there was 2 or 3 versions but i can only find crap photos. Alos what is its relation if it has any to the AEK-918, 956, 961, 971, 977,978 rifles?
also does anyone have a pic of the AEK971 prototype which had a short muzzle device on it.. i saw it in a youtube video

AEK-971 constructed in project "Modern", AEK-958 constructed in project "Abakan". AEK - name of many weapons, builted in Kovrov.
AEK-958:
View attachment 641285
AEK-973 (AEK-971 in 7.62x39) with short muzzle device:
View attachment 641286
AEK-971/973, second - with experimental non-standard muzzle device.

View attachment 641287
SA-006 rifle - early variant of AEK-971, with old non-standard muzzle device:
View attachment 641288
View attachment 641289
View attachment 641292

wow thanks. esp for the prompt response ( sorry as i dont know cryllic otherwise id type it here...

btw do you know of any more pics of the 958. and did Kovrov assembled prototypes utilise all the number indexes ( i.e seeing as there is known indexes of 918, 919, 956, 958, 965, 968, 969, 970, 971, 973, 999 were there 919-955, 957, 959, 960, 961-970 and 974-999 or was the CCCP and kovrov all over the place with the designations and not sequentially ordered

and what is the significance of the 98.112 in reference to one of the 971 prototypes?

sorry to keep pestering you but i am just infatuated with soviet small arms projects/ experiments and their subs as well....so intriguing

i know about forum.guns.ru but i cant actually register an account there so i cant pester them if i could i would...lol

would you know anything about the A1-75, A2p, A3 kalashnikov prototypes...and what kind of PBS was intended for the A1-75?

 

[codyson]

Frolov 7.62 mm carbine (SMG), 1912-1914:
View attachment 640615
Unknown Russian gun (SMG?), maybe, 1930-40s:
View attachment 640616View attachment 640613
View attachment 640612
View attachment 640614
View attachment 640617

the weapon that you identified as a (SMG?) is in fact a ROK 3 flame thrower notice the hose adapter on the bottom of the reciever.. it is clearly labeled in the 4th phototgraph "ROK 21696"

 

[codyson]

Simonov 1946 rifles, based on M1891/30 rifles, in 7.62x39, 10-round magazines, like a magazine of PTRS-41 anti-tank rifle:
View attachment 640159
View attachment 640163
View attachment 640162
View attachment 640161
View attachment 640160

NONE of those carbines are based upon any mosin.. mosins have a straight wrist wheras those stocks are more than likely mannlichers

 

[Bottleship]

the weapon that you identified as a (SMG?) is in fact a ROK 3 flame thrower notice the hose adapter on the bottom of the reciever.. it is clearly labeled in the 4th phototgraph "ROK 21696"

This was signed on the Russian site as SMG

NONE of those carbines are based upon any mosin.. mosins have a straight wrist wheras those stocks are more than likely mannlichers

Starting in the 1910s, various design options were offered for the M1891. There were many projects in the 1930s, for example, "stock like the Arisaka", "stock like the Mauser 98", etc. These carbines have a many Mosin details.

 

[Bottleship]

AEKs in 5.45x39:

1. AEK-956, based on SA-006, non-standard magazines, two action springs, toothed synchronizer, need to make an effort to reloading. Firing mods - full-auto or single shot.
2. AEK-961, without balance mechanism
3. AEK-978a, balanced automatic without toothed synchronizer, not reliable synchronizing between balance mechanism and bolt. Firing mods - full-auto, 3 shots and single shot.
4. AEK-971 number 14, longened base to decrease of rate of fire (standart in AEK-971 ~900 rpm).
5. AEK-971 number 98.112, experimental muzzle device.
6. AEK-971 number 5, longened base to decrease of rate of fire, damping mechanism.

 

[codyson]

AEKs in 5.45x39:
View attachment 641314
1. AEK-956, based on SA-006, non-standard magazines, two action springs, toothed synchronizer, need to make an effort to reloading. Firing mods - full-auto or single shot.
2. AEK-961, without balance mechanism
3. AEK-978a, balanced automatic without toothed synchronizer, not reliable synchronizing between balance mechanism and bolt. Firing mods - full-auto, 3 shots and single shot.
4. AEK-971 number 14, longened base to decrease of rate of fire (standart in AEK-971 ~900 rpm).
5. AEK-971 number 98.112, experimental muzzle device.
6. AEK-971 number 5, longened base to decrease of rate of fire, damping mechanism.

i read that in guns.ru but i cant interact with the members there as for some reason i am unable to register a profile there..i get to the forms page where you fill out the username, password...etc but when i press the register button....NOTHING

 

[codyson]

does anyone have any information or pics of the RPG-3, RPG-5, RPG-6?

 

[Bottleship]

Bolhovitinov 2B-A-15, 1955, delayed-blowback system, in Kovrov:

RPG-6

I know about anti-tank hand grenade, not about anti-tank rocket launcher:

 

[codyson]

ahh darn it the images dont show up

 

[Ravinoff]

A few oddities from my archives:

#1: the Nomar submachine gun, seemingly one of one made and floating around the gun show circuit. Brainchild of Nolan Nomar and closely related to his more well-known 1911 stock-magazine, which has its own Forgotten Weapons article.


#2: the Silent Sniper System, or the earliest ancestor of the SSK Whisper line. A Winchester Model 70 with integral suppressor, chambered for the .458x1.5" Barnes, a shortened .458 Win Mag case that more or less duplicates the .458 Whisper.

#3: A Remington 870 modified by Caroll Childers to feed from a box mag. Tool room prototype supposedly used by MACV-SOG. Also appears to be missing its barrel on this example, though I swear I've got a photo of one with it somewhere.

#4: the AEK-918G, apparently sharing a design lineage with the AEK-919 Kashtan, but converted to a more conventional design as an experiment. Rather bafflingly, the -918 is the 9x19mm version of the Kashtan, while the 919 fires 9x18 Makarov.

 

[AN/AWW-14(V)]

russian folding submachine gun ПП-90 (PP-90)

 

[codyson]

A.Konstantinovs AEK-958 was a competitor to the Y.Stechkins TKb-0116's, M.Kalashnikovs PP, PP2 and PP3, S.Siminovs AG-042 and AG-043, A.Popovichs PPL, E.Dragunovs MA's, A.Schevchenkos Smersh, and Tkachev's Ao-46

S.Koksharov's AEK 971/973 was a Competitor to Y.Stechkins TKb-0146's, N.Afanasyaev TKb-0136-3m, V.Kalashnikovs AKB, AKB-1, AL-9, P.Pikinskys AEK-978, G.Korobovs various TKb-0111's, G.Nikonovs A-11, NA-2, NA-4, Ao-222, AS-1, PU-192, ASM, WS229, OK-159, MA-49, MA-50 rifles, and S.Siminovs Ao-31-1 - Ao-31-7 and Ao-63

the Ao-63

does anyone have any good pictures of the AEK-958 Ive read there was 2 or 3 versions but i can only find crap photos. Alos what is its relation if it has any to the AEK-918, 956, 961, 971, 977,978 rifles?
also does anyone have a pic of the AEK971 prototype which had a short muzzle device on it.. i saw it in a youtube video

AEK-971 constructed in project "Modern", AEK-958 constructed in project "Abakan". AEK - name of many weapons, builted in Kovrov.
AEK-958:
View attachment 641285
AEK-973 (AEK-971 in 7.62x39) with short muzzle device:
View attachment 641286
AEK-971/973, second - with experimental non-standard muzzle device.

View attachment 641287
SA-006 rifle - early variant of AEK-971, with old non-standard muzzle device:
View attachment 641288
View attachment 641289
View attachment 641292

Please Excuse MY errors

the Dragunov MA carbines ( at least 3 different specimins are found online) and A.Konstantinovs AEK-958 Carbines ( At least 3 different specimins found so far) were apparently part of a program to cut down on reliance on Steels and Aluminums in firearms production ( Korobov also has the TKB-022 series of bullpups and some AG4 LMGs and Afanasyev has his TKb-011 Series of bullpups in this program)


LESSON OF THE DAY

NEVER NEVER NEVER EVER NEVER utilise american or british sources when it comes to Soviet/ Russian prototypes... at least take them with a grain of salt

 

[Ravinoff]

AEKs in 5.45x39:

1. AEK-956, based on SA-006, non-standard magazines, two action springs, toothed synchronizer, need to make an effort to reloading. Firing mods - full-auto or single shot.
2. AEK-961, without balance mechanism
3. AEK-978a, balanced automatic without toothed synchronizer, not reliable synchronizing between balance mechanism and bolt. Firing mods - full-auto, 3 shots and single shot.
4. AEK-971 number 14, longened base to decrease of rate of fire (standart in AEK-971 ~900 rpm).
5. AEK-971 number 98.112, experimental muzzle device.
6. AEK-971 number 5, longened base to decrease of rate of fire, damping mechanism.

And to wrap up that series, the final (to date) evolutionary step of the Koksharov rifles, the A-545 and A-762, both from V.A Degtyaryov Plant in Kovrov. Entered in the Ratnik trials, but lost out to the modernized Kalashnikov AK-12/15 in the end. It is apparently in limited service with certain special forces and interior troops however, much like a lot of other exotic Russian small arms.

 

[codyson]

I found this image at Guns.ru forum and if it is labeled as one of the AEK-958 carbines... ( apparently there were at least 7 made (idk but to me it looks like on the front trunnion is written the following 958 above N7) am i correct in my assumption or is it another number?

 

[Bottleship]

Cartridges, created by engineer Alexander Shevchenko in 1980s:
Left to right: 6.5x39 Grendel, 6.5x39 Shevchenko (1982, 7.62x39 case and 6.5 mm bullet from sporting cartridge), standart Soviet 5.45x39:

Left to right: 6.5x54R sporting cartridge, 6.5x51 Shevchenko (1986, 7.62x51 parent case), 6.5x39 Shevchenko.

Ballistics of Shevchenko cartridges - like a 6.5x39 Grendel and 6.5x48 Creedmoor. Data of standart 6.5x54R sporting cartridge - 1) 9.9 g, 743-760 mps, 2733-2859 Joules, 2) 5.15 g, 1040 mps, 2785 Joules.
...
Alexander Shevchenko with his SMG "Rys' " ("Рысь", lynx) in 9x18:

Unlike the PP-19 "Vityaz' ", the "Rys' " can be completely produced in regimental workshops, including the production of the necessary elements - real "doomsday SMG"

 

[codyson]

does anyone have any good pictures of the AEK-958 Ive read there was 2 or 3 versions but i can only find crap photos. Alos what is its relation if it has any to the AEK-918, 956, 961, 971, 977,978 rifles?
also does anyone have a pic of the AEK971 prototype which had a short muzzle device on it.. i saw it in a youtube video

AEK-971 constructed in project "Modern", AEK-958 constructed in project "Abakan". AEK - name of many weapons, builted in Kovrov.
AEK-958:
View attachment 641285
AEK-973 (AEK-971 in 7.62x39) with short muzzle device:
View attachment 641286
AEK-971/973, second - with experimental non-standard muzzle device.

View attachment 641287
SA-006 rifle - early variant of AEK-971, with old non-standard muzzle device:
View attachment 641288
View attachment 641289
View attachment 641292

do you know of any more pics of the 958. and did Kovrov assembled prototypes utilise all the number indexes ( i.e seeing as there is known indexes of 918, 919, 956, 958, 965, 968, 969, 970, 971, 973, 999 were there 919-955, 957, 959, 960, 961-970 and 974-999 or was the CCCP and kovrov all over the place with the designations and not sequentially ordered

and what is the significance of the 98.112 in reference to one of the 971 prototypes?

sorry to keep pestering you but i am just infatuated with soviet small arms projects/ experiments and their subs as well....so intriguing

 

[Bottleship]

and what is the significance of the 98.112 in reference to one of the 971 prototypes?

5. AEK-971 number 98.112, experimental muzzle device.

98.112 - AEK-971 with weird muzzle device. That's all what I know.
I don’t know anything about the AEK indexes, and I don’t have any more AEK-958 photos.

 

[Bottleship]

Also, variant of AEK-918:

 

[Bottleship]

I found second image with Frolov 1912-1914 SMG:

It doesn't look like a rough first sample anymore. More like a pre-production sample.
+ Also, information about other Russian SMG. Engineer V. A. Degtyarev in 1913 create unknown SMG, who planned to serial production in 1918, for assault groups, but, after 1917 revolution, all documents and blueprints, with Finnish engineers, left for Finland, and, Aimo Lahti used this for his SMGs. This information cannot be confirmed or denied. We know what the Degtyarev 1929 SMG looked like, and we know what the 1922 Lahti SMG looked like, but we do not know what the 1921 Lahti SMG looked like, and what the 1913 Degtyarev SMG looked like (if it existed). But, I don't think it was completely impossible. Frolov started working in 1912 or earlier, in Austria-Hungary Hellriegel started working in 1908.

 

[codyson]

Also, variant of AEK-918:
View attachment 642256

I need to know where you find these images as ive never seen that image of that variant of the AEK918r
ive seen only the following

 

[Ravinoff]

Also, variant of AEK-918:
View attachment 642256

I need to know where you find these images as ive never seen that image of that variant of the AEK918r
ive seen only the following

I think they're slight variants of the same AEK-918G prototype I posted further up. And you'll be having trouble with "AEK-918r", as that's not an R but a Cyrillic G (Г).