Firearms secret projects

[Rl3]

Italian pneumatic grenade launcher 1930.

 

[Nik]

Would this Italian grenade launcher have a civilian application for shotgun 'clays' ??

 

[Rl3]

Hardly.

 

[Rl3]

Experienced German cartridge 6.5x43 mm from IWK 1962.

 

[raigap]

Experienced German cartridge 6.5x43 mm from IWK 1962.

6.5 X 43 IWK | Cartridgecollector.net

www.cartridgecollector.net

6.5x43 German IWK XPL / MUNICION.ORG

6.5 x 43 mm IWK 1962 XPL

In order to fit in a standard 7.62mm NATO action length and mags, a cartridge using the 121gr Voss style 6.5mm projo with a nose length of 4.1 calibers (27.5mm) dictates a case length of no longer than 43mm. A 6.5x43mm cartridge using this long projo would require a casehead dia. of at least...

forums.delphiforums.com

 

[Get_Em_Puppy]

Fake but interesting

View attachment 694189

Jean Huon is a real expert in French firearms. A few numbers of Berthier carbine have been adapted to the CRSG mag.

Yeah he is, but the photo provided does look like a bad photoshop. A Chauchat magazine adapter was developed for the Lebel rifle, but it was mounted horizontally, not vertically. I think Huon may have just made a digital mockup based on the assumption that the Lebel's magazine adapter functioned exactly the same as the Berthier's.

 

[Get_Em_Puppy]

Speaking of Chauchats...


The PM Chauchat-Ribeyrolles, developed in 1918 for the French Army. This gun was reportedly conceived for Saint-Chamond and FT-17 tank crews and was built to a compact size, without a buttstock, so that it could be fired from the tight confines for armoured vehicles. It was called a "Pistolet-Mitrailleur", i.e. 'Machine Pistol', which was the French equivalent term to Italy's "Pistola Mitragliatrice" (the Villar Perosa) and Germany's "Maschinenpistole" (the MP 18,I).

The first model was basically just a cut-down RSC Mle 1917 rifle converted to fire full-auto. The second model, made in 1919, was a little more refined and more resembled a compacted Chauchat LMG. It fed from 20-round CSRG magazines, which was probably not a wise choice as they were extremely poor, but were some of the only box magazines that were widely available to the French at that time.

The Chauchat-Ribeyrolles concept was abandoned after the war, as the requirement disappeared. Huon described it rather generously as France's first submachine gun, though clearly it was not really an SMG on either a technical or doctrinal level. Nonetheless it was probably the first purpose-built Port Firing Weapon (PFW) ever made.

 

[TG1918]

German officer with captured French Hotchkiss AA machine gun (flexible strips)

 

[TG1918]

Italian Genar PM410 submachine gun

 

[<ronguild]

German officer with captured French Hotchkiss AA machine gun (flexible strips)

That's the version for the Schneider CA1 tank.

 

[TG1918]

Degtyarev with Lewis shroud

 

[TG1918]

 

[TG1918]

Unusual Chinese Thompson

 

[linkoping]

View attachment 697812

looks like another side

 

[klem]

" When you look at early invention in the semi-automatic, you get some interesting-looking firearms. The first attempt at the semi-auto pistol was Borchardt’s C93 that attempted to reinvent Maxim’s toggle lock. Around the same time several other inventors were attempting similar yet different designs.This Passler & Seidl Semi-Automatic Pistol is a rare representation of those guns. Patented In 1887, this firearm was invented by Franz Passler of Otakring and Ferdinand Seidl of Budweis in Austria. This early repeater played around with the self-loading features of a semi-auto. The ring trigger could be manipulated forward and backward to load the firearm. The ammunition was loaded into the bottom of the frame. The caliber is 7.7 mm and may be a 7.65mm Borchardt cartridge or an 8mm Bergmann tapered rimless cartridge (two contemporary cartridges of its time).This pistol was made only in limited numbers. The design was modified slightly by Gustav Bittner of Weipen, Bohemia, who produced limited numbers about 1893."

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1AMXGGEDILk
https://centerofthewest.org/2014/10/11/guns-of-the-week-ingenious_engineering/

 

[TG1918]

Chinese De Lisle lol

 

[TG1918]

Mortars converted from Gras

 

[TG1918]

Russian soldiers armed with Berthier

 

[TG1918]

Swebilius gas operated conversion of Winchester SL

 

[TG1918]

Extended magazine for Villar Perosa

 

[TG1918]

Early Italian universal / general purpose machine gun?

 

[TG1918]

Bus converted to “armored car”, equipped with a Bergmann submachine gun as the only firepower

 

[TG1918]

Chinese Type 28 rifle grenade launcher designed for Type Zhongzheng / Chiang kai-shek rifle.

 

[TG1918]

Tokarev aerial machine gun based on potato digger

 

[TG1918]

Thompson M1923 and Rossignol ENT B1

 

[World B4]

https://imgur.com/a/nJ4OOGZ

View: https://imgur.com/a/nJ4OOGZ


Tula State Arms Museum's write-up about the Schwarzlose smg. It doesn't appear to say when the gun or it's sibling were captured, which is what I wanted to find out

 

[klem]

Bullpup BAR (Browning Automatic Rifle).

 

[Ravinoff]

https://imgur.com/a/nJ4OOGZ

View: https://imgur.com/a/nJ4OOGZ


Tula State Arms Museum's write-up about the Schwarzlose smg. It doesn't appear to say when the gun or it's sibling were captured, which is what I wanted to find out

Googling around a bit, looks like as of 2014 it was at the Tula State University, Max Popenker of world.guns.ru sent a series of photos over to Forgotten Weapons under the name of "Experimental German 08/18 Maxim Submachine Gun". And that one is slightly different (as the linked article says) from the one documented in the report, so at least two must've been captured.

And for some updated content: I briefly talked about the 12.7x108mm 6P62 way upthread three years ago, but about six months back a Russian user on Reddit posted some more information on it. Fully quoting his post:

I had actually done a research project on this while attending my schooling. Even spoke to a member of the development team, and a member from the trials group. I have a little more info on it which I will share below. Unfortunately there's not a lot as it had barely even made it to any trials to begin before it was shut down.


It is indeed a long stroke gas system, in 12.7x108мм. In 2007г as the insurgency phase of the second Chechen war was at its peak ZiD began
development of such weapon for a very niche role. Only 3 or so were ever produced.


It was intended for use by anti terror teams conducting operations in the North Caucasus. Trials held quickly showed it's flaws and feedback from the trial group concluded how it didn't fit any role needed by federal forces in current operations.
Eventually, ZiD pushed enough that the program briefly reappeared in the same year and was given an even quicker trial period, this time for how effective it would be within airborne landing forces (VDV) as a small anti vehicle and material rifle. End result was that it was unnecessary in both of its trialed roles and ZiD was forced to abandon the project.

Issues between both short trials were never publicly shared, but G.E.Nikitin of the trial group, specifically for the version trialed for VDV, stated it was unreliable, inconvenient to operate and field, and most important factor, expensive to manufacture. Especially, as it was unnecessary as it's roles were already being carried out by other weapon systems at the squad level within VDV. I do not know if these are the same issues they determined initially in the first trial, but I'd assume it was similar.

If I understand his subsequent reply right, the pictures of it are all from a weapons and technology expo in 2014, being demo'd by Spetsnaz "Vympel" group. No relation to the Baryshev delayed-blowback action as I'd been speculating, which is a whole other mess worthy of its own post. ZiD = V. A Degtyaryov Plant, for reference. And what maniac thought the airborne VDV would want a 40lb full-auto anti-materiel rifle, neither of us could figure out.

 

[TG1918]

G33/40 paratrooper trial gun

 

[Bottleship]

View attachment 697812

looks like another sideView attachment 697993

Музей артиллерии, инженерных войск и войск связи. Стрелковое оружие и иное лёгкое вооружение

 

[TG1918]

Krag rifle w dust cover

 

[TG1918]

Japanese paratrooper rifles, from top to bottom Type 100, pre-production Type 2, Type 2.
The so called “Type 100” was actually an experimental take down rifle based on Type 99, it did NOT have an official name. It utilized interrupted thread to lock the barrel and the receiver, which proved unreliable during testing.
Early Type 2 added a locking wedge that strengthened the connection, however it kept the detachable bolt handle which could be easily lost in the field. Moreover, it had a permanently attached folding bayonet under the barrel. The final Type 2 canceled both features, and proved satisfactory to be used by paratroopers.

 

[TG1918]

Italian Scotti semi-automatic rifle, converted from a Pattern 14. Scotti converted a variety of bolt action rifles into semi-automatic and tried to sell them abroad, but nobody paid for his invention.

 

[TG1918]

Hugo Schmeisser’s simplified assault rifle: StG45(H)

 

[klem]

Hugo Schmeisser’s simplified assault rifle: StG45(H)

https://www.secretprojects.co.uk/threads/firearms-secret-projects.3265/post-506107

 

[TG1918]

Soviet TKB-340 pistol caliber LMG

 

[TG1918]

Soviet Shpitalniy pistol caliber LMG

 

[TG1918]

Chinese Type 77 LMG, a side-fed ZB26 clone

 

[TG1918]

Spanish Trapote light machine gun in 7mm Mauser
weight 9.2 kg
overall length 1180 mm
feeding 15 or 20 rds magazine
maximum rate of fire 650 rpm

 

[TG1918]

Spanish Astra M1927 light machine gun in 7mm Mauser
weight 11.5 kg
overall length 1160 mm
feeding 15 rds magazine