FFG(X)

DWG said:
Depends on how much of their magazine depth they've devoted to anti-ship missiles, vs Mk 48 and land-attack Tomahawk. More than one additional attack may be pushing it.
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I was honestly assuming Tomahawk Block 5s from the US boats, so they're dual-purpose. But yes, boats would have to decide how much of their torpedo room to allocate to cruise missiles versus torpedoes. I would not expect anything less than 8 torpedoes carried. (looking at SSBN torpedo capacity)



johnpjones1775 said:
Idk, not if we end up getting an escort that’s actually affordable and can do the job without having overkill for capability.
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When a bunch of rebels supplied by Iran of all places can create the Red Sea Turkey Shoot, you'd better design in one hell of a baseline capability.
 
This probably has 0 impact on the program, as Fincantieri and the Navy are so behind with the first 6 hulls that there’s no way they could start construction on a seventh hull next year.

Congress is just saying why pay now when we can wait till FY26 for some evidence of progress before funding the next hulls.
 
Cordy said:
Congress is planning savage cuts to Constellation budget to the end of FY25 by reducing Continuing Resolution from $1.17 billion to $100 million, reflecting their disgust with the Navy over their handling of the program.
Ship was ordered April 2020, nearly two and a half years later August 2022 build was authorized with Adm Morton falsely claiming 80% detail design complete but when the GAO reported May 2024, twenty one months later not in one of the 30 odd Grand Modules of the build had the detail design been 100% completed, Navy has not revealed the current state of play and if they have completed design of any of the Grand Modules.
Now the program is running three years late, overweight and over cost (appearing mainly to impact Fincantieri Marinette Marinetti as they signed a fixed price contract !), no wonder the Far Eastern Shipyards insist amongst other things 100% design is complete before commencing build.

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What? We finally got a fixed rate contract for a ship? That should have been standard imho
 
bring_it_on said:
Congress can continue to trim funds and then cry about how we don't have enough ships a few years later. We're kind of back to square one..with no real viable plan to field more surface combatants in the next 10-15 year time horizon (setting aside the political rhetoric)... Congress is an equal partner on that blame. If they were remotely interested in expanding the surface combatant fleet they should be accelerating the Frigate investments to complete design and open production up for other yards so that we can build this think at the LCS rate of 4 per year at a minimum. Right now, unless the Navy is allowed to (there too I think Congress has trimmed investments) go big on unmanned it is destined to shrink or be forced to operate old and outdated ships.
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Tbh I dont think the Connie’s really got that many more to us. Even if they go with the full order of 20, that’s only 6 or 7 available to deploy at a time, god forbid a ship get hung up in a prolonged yard period, or receive some major accidental damage and need an unscheduled yard period.

We need a class of ship that we can afford at least 60 of.

The more we fuck things up, the more I think we need to just go with MMSCs with an upgraded radar. If it’s notably cheaper than the SPY ‘lite’ arrays we’re putting on the Connies then maybe the UK’s Sampson radar would work. The ships themselves would have fairly low VLS count, but I’d use them as the C&C ship for LUSVs and MUSVs with ADLs if not full on VLS. 16 per hull, have an MMSC controlling 3, and we have our convoy escorts.
 
Ainen said:
If I understand correctly, all these ROCN ships carry up to to 64 inclined TC-2N, as every position is fully modular.
Exceeding 16 is more pointless/expensive rather than impossible.
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ROCN version is capable of 16-cell VLS, however due to budget concern they fit 8 only.
The version suggested to the Aussies got 32-cell VLS, with the expense of removing the main gun
 
Grey Havoc said:
www.navalnews.com

Naval Group Offers Greece Local Build of 3 More FDI Frigates - Naval News

Naval Group has informed Greek leadership with a proposal that includes the local construction of 3 additional FDI frigates
www.navalnews.com www.navalnews.com
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The acquisition of a total of seven (7) frigates of this type would significantly enhance the capabilities of the Hellenic Navy across all domains of naval warfare. The FDI HN frigates are equipped with a top tier anti-submarine warfare (ASW) suite and boast a formidable AAW missile loadout for their size, with each vessel carrying 24-32 ASTER 30 SAM and 21 RAM SAM.

However, their potential acquisition would likely nullify the announced plan of the political leadership to procure the Constellation-class frigates—not only for the Hellenic Navy’s needs but also with the ambition of co-producing them in Greece for potential export to other regional customers. The Greek leadership is likely to reconsider this option as the “American FREMM” program has been facing increasing delays, amid talks of reduced funding on the program which in turn is casting an increasing doubt on whether these frigates will ever see U.S. Navy service.
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Rep. Rob Wittman (R-VA), vice chairman of the House Armed Services Committee, speaking Wednesday at Sea-Air-Space '25 questioning if the program should be scrapped altogether.
Disclosed that design has still has not been completed, its now "expected" design will be completed by this Summer, August ? That's total incompetence by the Navy/NAVSEA as its over 6 years since the contract was awarded in April '20 for the parent IT- FREMM design (GAO disclosed back in May '24 not one of the many build modules designs had been completed).

https://insidedefense.com/insider/wittman-navy-must-question-future-constellation-class
 
Cordy said:
Rep. Rob Wittman (R-VA), vice chairman of the House Armed Services Committee, speaking Wednesday at Sea-Air-Space '25 questioning if the program should be scrapped altogether.
Disclosed that design has still has not been completed, its now "expected" design will be completed by this Summer, August ? That's total incompetence by the Navy/NAVSEA as its over 6 years since the contract was awarded in April '20 for the parent IT- FREMM design (GAO disclosed back in May '24 not one of the many build modules designs had been completed).

https://insidedefense.com/insider/wittman-navy-must-question-future-constellation-class
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As much as this disaster of a program deserves to get terminated, I'm not sure that is going back to square one is going to help the Navy get ships faster.

NAVSEA, it's culture and leadership, really needs a hard look and probably a reset.
 
Cordy said:
Rep. Rob Wittman (R-VA), vice chairman of the House Armed Services Committee, speaking Wednesday at Sea-Air-Space '25 questioning if the program should be scrapped altogether.
Disclosed that design has still has not been completed, its now "expected" design will be completed by this Summer, August ? That's total incompetence by the Navy/NAVSEA as its over 6 years since the contract was awarded in April '20 for the parent IT- FREMM design (GAO disclosed back in May '24 not one of the many build modules designs had been completed).

https://insidedefense.com/insider/wittman-navy-must-question-future-constellation-class
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This is coming from a congressman representing a district adjacent to Newport News. At this point, I'd argue for a parallel program to the FFGX, as cancellation of a Wisconsin project isn't politically viable. A good place to start might be cost decontenting a Flight III Burke class hull into a "Frigate." To put it another way, if you eliminated a pair of LM2500 gas turbines and downgraded to a rotating or Constellation class 3-face SPY-6 array, and added in the CAPTAS active towed array and some manner of auxilary electric cruising motors, what sort of overall per unit costs would you have? Or better yet, just downgrading the radar and ESM systems and left the rest of the hull alone, except to fitting an active towed array?
 
Jimmo952 said:
As much as this disaster of a program deserves to get terminated, I'm not sure that is going back to square one is going to help the Navy get ships faster.

NAVSEA, it's culture and leadership, really needs a hard look and probably a reset.
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Too late.
Jimmo952 said:
As much as this disaster of a program deserves to get terminated, I'm not sure that is going back to square one is going to help the Navy get ships faster.

NAVSEA, it's culture and leadership, really needs a hard look and probably a reset.
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Cancellation is not going to happen. Wisconsin is a "swing state" and neither political party wants to lose the 2026 midterm of 2028 presidential election. There will definitely be at least 6 Constellation Class frigates in service....eventually. And unless the American electoral map changes, continuous shipbuilding will be maintained in Wisconsin. Even if the ships in question belong to a class that is already being placed into reserve like the Freedom class. I'm still betting on the Wisconsin built Constellation program going well into a double digital number of hulls.
 
Josh_TN said:
Restarting the process will not get you a ship faster. But the process and people who allowed this to happen should be investigated.
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For sure. I don't fault the shipbuilder in this case.
I blame the clowns that can't stop themselves from continually tweaking the design until it has almost nothing in common with the parent design.
 

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