FFG(X)

[Grey Havoc]

Worker Shortage Hobbles Construction of U.S. Navy Frigates

By Tony Capaccio (Bloomberg) — The shipyard producing the US Navy’s new frigate has been hobbled by a failure to “achieve engineering and skilled workforce levels” for the medium-sized vessel, according...

gcaptain.com

 

[Pioneer]

I'm truely flabbergasted.
If it wasn't bad enough that the worlds largest and most powerful Navy in the world couldn't source an adequate domestically designed Frigate and as a consequence selected an Italian-based design....

US Navy’s New Warship Is Plagued by Worker Turnover​

• First of Navy’s new frigates is running up to three years late
• Inexperienced labor and supervisors hobble Navy, analyst says

US Navy’s New Warship Is Plagued by Worker Turnover

The shipyard producing the US Navy’s new frigate has been hobbled by a failure to “achieve engineering and skilled workforce levels” for the medium-sized vessel, according to a service document on the project that’s now forecast to run as much as three years late.

www.bloomberg.com

Regards
Pioneer

 

[Scott Kenny]

I'm truely flabbergasted.
If it wasn't bad enough that the worlds largest and most powerful Navy in the world couldn't source an adequate domestically designed Frigate and as a consequence selected an Italian-based design....

Well, yeah. Shipyards have been hiring workers based on contracts for ships they have to build for years and years now, not hiring them as employees and then finding work for the yard. Boeing did the same thing back in the 1990s, even, long before they merged with MDD.

Which is why the Navy needs to get into a long term consistent buying practice with their new construction.

 

[mirco1961]

I'm truely flabbergasted.
If it wasn't bad enough that the worlds largest and most powerful Navy in the world couldn't source an adequate domestically designed Frigate and as a consequence selected an Italian-based design....

US Navy’s New Warship Is Plagued by Worker Turnover​

• First of Navy’s new frigates is running up to three years late
• Inexperienced labor and supervisors hobble Navy, analyst says

US Navy’s New Warship Is Plagued by Worker Turnover

The shipyard producing the US Navy’s new frigate has been hobbled by a failure to “achieve engineering and skilled workforce levels” for the medium-sized vessel, according to a service document on the project that’s now forecast to run as much as three years late.

www.bloomberg.com

Regards
Pioneer

and what does the lack of personnel have to do with the Italian project, which is probably the best available?

 

[Pioneer]

and what does the lack of personnel have to do with the Italian project, which is probably the best available?

It doesn't.
In terms of the "Italian project" [design], I was attempting to emphasise just how enept the US Navy has become when it can't indigenously source an American designed Frigate....or should that be the US naval ship building industry, which can't design a Frigate to US needs and wants.....

Regards
Pioneer

 

[Jimmo952]

It doesn't.
In terms of the "Italian project" [design], I was attempting to emphasise just how enept the US Navy has become when it can't indigenously source an American designed Frigate....or should that be the US naval ship building industry, which can't design a Frigate to US needs and wants.....

Regards
Pioneer

The Navy shut down it's internal ship design group years ago. The decision was made to rely on industry.

That's been a disaster.

An additional problem is the lack of a serious commercial ship sector in the US.

The US yards live and die by US Government contracts which is not exactly a paradigm that promotes efficiency and continuity in the yards.

 

[A Tentative Fleet Plan]

The US Navy’s Constellation class frigate problem is a problem for the world

‘Go fast. Stay quiet’

www.telegraph.co.uk

During the Cold War, the US Navy expected that, if the war ever turned hot, it would have to escort cargo ships across the Atlantic and Pacific Oceans in order to sustain America’s resource-intensive fight against the Soviet Union.

Only problem being that the Soviets weren't going to come out and play and instead sit back and defend their coastal waters. Those Cold War frigates were a waste of resources.

That meant frigates, scores of them. These well-armed but inexpensive vessels were supposed to perform the tedious, unglamorous and often dangerous job of shepherding big, slow, vulnerable ships through waters teeming with Soviet submarines.

These frigates were hardly inexpensive, even the Dealey class were considered too expensive, hence the development of the Claud Jones class, and the succeeding Bronstein, Garcia, Brooke and Knox were if anything even more expensive and capable, to the point that they were expected to perform general-purpose destroyer roles.

US Cold War DE/DEGs are if anything an excellent illustration of how modern combat systems greatly increase ship cost, and how attempts to cut costs, like the use of single shafts, will only create minor savings.

 

[zevets]

It doesn't.
In terms of the "Italian project" [design], I was attempting to emphasise just how enept the US Navy has become when it can't indigenously source an American designed Frigate....or should that be the US naval ship building industry, which can't design a Frigate to US needs and wants.....

Regards
Pioneer

Well do I have news for you - they started with an italian design, but after the Navy put its requirements on constellation - it is now projected to only have 15% commonality with the base design.

https://news.usni.org/2024/04/09/report-to-congress-on-constellation-class-frigate-program

 

[zevets]

US Cold War DE/DEGs are if anything an excellent illustration of how modern combat systems greatly increase ship cost, and how attempts to cut costs, like the use of single shafts, will only create minor savings.

A bastardized form Norm Augustine's classic line on software holds: this analysis shows that in the future, the US defense budget will be only be able to afford one aircraft, it will be made of 100% electronics, and it will cost more per pound than its weight in gold. This seems impossible, but america's finest engineers were up to the task, inventing "software" a weightless substance of seemingly unlimited cost.

 

[Josh_TN]

Several U.S. platforms already are worth their weight in gold, depending on how you value program costs and when you measure the value of gold.

 

[Scott Kenny]

Only problem being that the Soviets weren't going to come out and play and instead sit back and defend their coastal waters. Those Cold War frigates were a waste of resources.

1) We didn't know that at the time, and
2) I'd argue that was a very poor decision on the part of the Soviets. They'd seen just how much materiel the US could produce if you gave us time to tool up. That shapes the entire war into basically having to rush to the English Channel before the US can send divisions over by plane to meet up with prepositioned equipment stocks.

 

[Firefinder]

1) We didn't know that at the time, and
2) I'd argue that was a very poor decision on the part of the Soviets. They'd seen just how much materiel the US could produce if you gave us time to tool up. That shapes the entire war into basically having to rush to the English Channel before the US can send divisions over by plane to meet up with prepositioned equipment stocks.

We actually did know it at the time. Every single Intel agency had the data by 1970 and told the Nato Navies.

Who preceed to not believe them for tge next 15 to 20 years despite repeat burgeoning from the Agencies. Cause they just couldn't believe it with the numbers of subs.

Except they forgot to factor in the Soviet views.

Which was the Soviets both figuring they COULDN'T defend against Nato convoys and ironicly planning on defensive fighting with spoiling attacks only.


Which was basically the Nato doctrine in a shellnut. Both sides thought that tge OTHER was going to attack first, not them.

So they Prioritize protection of what they saw as real war winners.

The Boomers.

The Soviets saw those as a way to point a shotgun directly in the US Face. With them doubling down when SOSUS became reliable enough blunt any convoy attack with just aircraft let alone SSN doing their thing

Which is why in the late 80s we saw a swing from convoy protection to Bastion breaking of the Soviet Boomer hides.