F-14 Tomcat Projects

[raptor82]

Anyone still have the pictures of the Super Tomcat 21 Cockpit?? Thanks

This is what's left of the cockpit mockup. Not complete, but gives an idea of the layout.

I've got a shot of the rear cockpit somewhere, but who knows if I'll ever find it. It's dominated by a very large display with handles the RIO can grap to help move around during maneuvers.

Creative Models & Prototypes Design Models

 

[NoBarrelRolls]

While I was working on my blog post about the advanced F-14 versions, I stumble upon this picture that is part of the Cradle of Aviation Museum archive

Seems to be part of a study for a rotodome equipped Tomcat, I keep wondering where the radar associated avionics will fit inside the Tomcat's fuselage.

 

[sferrin]

Hard to believe that wasn't done as a joke.

 

[hesham]

While I was working on my blog post about the advanced F-14 versions, I stumble upon this picture that is part of the Cradle of Aviation Museum archive

Seems to be part of a study for a rotodome equipped Tomcat, I keep wondering where the radar associated avionics will fit inside the Tomcat's fuselage.

Great find,thanks.

 

[stealthflanker]

Hard to believe that wasn't done as a joke.

I'll still buy into it considering Soviet did also at some point consider AEW/C variant of their Su-27K/Su-33, as a cheaper alternative to Be-42 or Yak-44

 

[sferrin]

Hard to believe that wasn't done as a joke.

I'll still buy into it considering Soviet did also at some point consider AEW/C variant of their Su-27K/Su-33, as a cheaper alternative to Be-42 or Yak-44

But the E-2 already existed.

 

[kaiserd]

While I was working on my blog post about the advanced F-14 versions, I stumble upon this picture that is part of the Cradle of Aviation Museum archive

Seems to be part of a study for a rotodome equipped Tomcat, I keep wondering where the radar associated avionics will fit inside the Tomcat's fuselage.

Great find,thanks.

If “real” (a rotadome and bombs under the wing?) presumably the rotadome would have been tied to the AN/AWG9 in the noise?
Doesn’t appear to be internal volume/ room for a second radar.

 

[kaiserd]

On a side note, the F/A-18(R)'s sensor nose, the primary ATAR package in other words, was designed to be able to be quickly swapped out with a radar nose so that the F/A-18(R) could serve as a normal fighter (albeit without the cannon) in an emergency. The F/A-18(R) would have had a more extensive ECM/ESM suite than normal Hornets. Incidentally, ATARS stands for Advanced Tactical Airborne Reconnaissance System.

Thanks, I had not realized that the (R) configuration lost the primary radar as well as the gun.

Are you sure this is right?
My firm recollection was that it was the Vulcan that was sacrificed (for an under noise pallet) but the radar was retained in the F-18(R) that got close to being fielded.
There might have been been at one time different version of the F-18(R) that also sacrificed the radar dating back to when there were separate F-18 and A-18 airframes with differing equipment.

 

[NoBarrelRolls]

While I was working on my blog post about the advanced F-14 versions, I stumble upon this picture that is part of the Cradle of Aviation Museum archive

Seems to be part of a study for a rotodome equipped Tomcat, I keep wondering where the radar associated avionics will fit inside the Tomcat's fuselage.

Great find,thanks.

If “real” (a rotadome and bombs under the wing?) presumably the rotadome would have been tied to the AN/AWG9 in the noise?
Doesn’t appear to be internal volume/ room for a second radar.

It's a great question Kaiserd, and I would like to ask why would an AWACS carry offensive armament? Would be great to know more about this model but I wasn't able to find more information.

 

[apparition13]

I could kind of see it if it was loaded up with AIM-152s, but dumb bombs on non-existent wing pylons, the inner ones of which look too close to the wing glove to rotate - doesn't seem likely.

 

[taildragger]

I'd bet money that it's an in-house or aftermarket joke.

 

[F-14D]

Thanks, but was or is not this cockpit mockup presented in some US American aviation museum? Maybe one forum member in North America can take some new pictures?

I believe at one time it was at the Naval Air Museum in Pensacola,and then may have gone to the Cradle of Aviation Museum on Long Island(?). I don't know where it is now.

 

[NoBarrelRolls]

Thanks, but was or is not this cockpit mockup presented in some US American aviation museum? Maybe one forum member in North America can take some new pictures?

I believe at one time it was at the Naval Air Museum in Pensacola,and then may have gone to the Cradle of Aviation Museum on Long Island(?). I don't know where it is now.

I think you are right F-14D

 

[gtg947h]

While I was working on my blog post about the advanced F-14 versions, I stumble upon this picture that is part of the Cradle of Aviation Museum archive

Seems to be part of a study for a rotodome equipped Tomcat, I keep wondering where the radar associated avionics will fit inside the Tomcat's fuselage.

I’ve seen a very similar joke model of a “Super Duper Hornet” with rotodome, MAD stinger, ALQ-99, and (I think) a buddy pod. The XEF-14Z label here is a giveaway.

 

[Sundog]

I'm thinking it's a joke in the sense that, that is the one usual carrier mission that the F-14 wasn't performing. Oh, and I've seen them make the "same" plane in Macross.

 

[apparition13]

A couple questions for y'all that I haven't been able to find the answers to, so perhaps someone here might know.

I've seen a couple posts on this site that suggest the F-14 would have been better if it could have been a couple of feet longer. How would this have improved the Tomcat? Aerodynamics? Fuel capacity? Space for avionics? And where would this length have been? Forward of the wing box? Between the nacelles? A LERX covering the intakes, as in the Grumman proposal for the F-15 program? In short, what would making the Tomcat longer accomplish?

Both the F-14C and the AST-21 are attack versions of an air to air variant, the F-14B (F401 engine) and the SuperTomcat 21 respectively. Did they retain the full air to air capability of the F-14B and ST21, and add additional strike capability, or would it have been necessary to degrade the air to air capability (perhaps by removing the AIM-54 capability) to create an attack focused variant?

In other words, is the progression F-14A, + the F401 = F-14B, + attack capability = F14C; or F-14B - (something) + attack capability to get the F-14C? Similarly for the AST21, was it ST21 + attack capability, or ST21 minus (something) that is replaced with attack capability?

 

[Grey Havoc]

1977

 

[Grey Havoc]

The Secret History of the First Microprocessor, the F-14, and Me

In a weird way, I’ve known Ray Holt all my life, but I never knew what he had accomplished—or how his inventions wove their way into my own family.

www.wired.com

 

[Bruno Anthony]

A couple questions for y'all that I haven't been able to find the answers to, so perhaps someone here might know.

I've seen a couple posts on this site that suggest the F-14 would have been better if it could have been a couple of feet longer. How would this have improved the Tomcat? Aerodynamics? Fuel capacity? Space for avionics? And where would this length have been? Forward of the wing box? Between the nacelles? A LERX covering the intakes, as in the Grumman proposal for the F-15 program? In short, what would making the Tomcat longer accomplish?

Both the F-14C and the AST-21 are attack versions of an air to air variant, the F-14B (F401 engine) and the SuperTomcat 21 respectively. Did they retain the full air to air capability of the F-14B and ST21, and add additional strike capability, or would it have been necessary to degrade the air to air capability (perhaps by removing the AIM-54 capability) to create an attack focused variant?

In other words, is the progression F-14A, + the F401 = F-14B, + attack capability = F14C; or F-14B - (something) + attack capability to get the F-14C? Similarly for the AST21, was it ST21 + attack capability, or ST21 minus (something) that is replaced with attack capability?

This may help

Post in thread 'F-14 Tomcat Projects'
https://www.secretprojects.co.uk/threads/f-14-tomcat-projects.589/post-21613

Post in thread 'F-14 Tomcat Projects'
https://www.secretprojects.co.uk/threads/f-14-tomcat-projects.589/post-222629

 

[Grey Havoc]

A image from USN/USMC ski jump trials:

(h/t Pyrrhic victory and Excalibur66)

 

[Colonial-Marine]

Were any more details ever discovered about the "Tomcat II" proposal? I'm guessing it was just an idea Grumman pitched prior to the ST-21 in the hope the USN would show interest. In that case I presume it didn't get beyond some basic sketches.

Or did it actually have some relation to the ASF-14?

 

[Blaze1]

Some may find this interesting:

https://www.f-16.net/forum/download/file.php?id=32834&sid=5cf25c255a420a17205920294d8976e7

 

[jsport]

A most exciting proposal from the day.

 

[TomcatViP]

Don't forget to read Navy pilots's reactions in the debate section at the end pages.

 

[isayyo2]

Don't forget to read Navy pilots's reactions in the debate section at the end pages.

The "disgruntled Grumman retiree" line was a good one.

 

[Grey Havoc]

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=enaUs3MZX6Q

 

[jsport]

Some may find this interesting:

https://www.f-16.net/forum/download/file.php?id=32834&sid=5cf25c255a420a17205920294d8976e7

The bottom line is that, unless aircraft like the F-14D continue to be on board, U.S. Navy aircraft carriers will be deployed with few aircraft on their flight decks, and most of those will be versions of the Hornet and the Super Hornet. Despite all protests to the contrary, with regard to standoff munitions and precision guided weapons, our carrier battle forces will not have the pulverizing power of their 1980s counterparts. When that time arrives, it will be the beginning of the end for carrier forces as we know them todayand the end of their rapid availability to the president in times of need.

 

[Jason Dykstra (Wyvern)]

One thing I've always wondered is what did the Super Tomcat offer that the Super Hornet didn't? The same can be said in the reverse, what did the Super Hornet offer that the Super Tomcat didn't?

 

[JudgeKing]

One thing I've always wondered is what did the Super Tomcat offer that the Super Hornet didn't? The same can be said in the reverse, what did the Super Hornet offer that the Super Tomcat didn't?

The ability to sling long range AAMs and the fact that one could remanufacture the older F-14s into the newer models.

 

[BLACK_MAMBA]

One thing I've always wondered is what did the Super Tomcat offer that the Super Hornet didn't? The same can be said in the reverse, what did the Super Hornet offer that the Super Tomcat didn't?

As far as I know the Super Hornet didn't really offer anything the Tomcat didn't besides lower maintenence costs perhaps but the difference wasn't nearly as big as was claimed back then. Any avionics advantage could have been worked into the Tomcat 21 design if the D couldn't accept it.
The Hornet just had a lot more backing than the Cat had in the end...

 

[isayyo2]

One thing I've always wondered is what did the Super Tomcat offer that the Super Hornet didn't? The same can be said in the reverse, what did the Super Hornet offer that the Super Tomcat didn't?

For the Super Hornet, politics mostly. Then Sec Def Cheney in 1991 killed off the Grumman production line that was in the process of building a dozen or so new F-14Ds and D(R) conversions...

 

[Grey Havoc]

Also, the Super Hornet supporters claimed it would be much cheaper to procure and operate than the Super Tomcat. That proved to be rather wide of the mark, to put it mildly.

 

[Archibald]

The Tomcat hydraulics were seemingly maintenance heavy.

On the other hand, the Super Hornet has some aerodynamic flaws (the wing pylons are all wrong)

 

[elmayerle]

One thing I've always wondered is what did the Super Tomcat offer that the Super Hornet didn't? The same can be said in the reverse, what did the Super Hornet offer that the Super Tomcat didn't?

GE-West Lynn and McDD were not in BuAero's "bad book" while Grumman and GE-Cincinnati were after they took BuAero to court, to make them pay for design changes in the F110 installation brought about because BuAero couldn't furnish improved flight control computers, and won.

 

[Colonial-Marine]

While it's a damn shame the Navy missed out on a new generation of F-14s I doubt they would have been actually cheaper to operate. I don't know how much money was spent developing the Super Hornet into a combat capable aircraft but procuring them doesn't seem to have been too horribly expensive either, at least for the past decade or so.

It's probably impossible to make an honest comparison since the F-14D had such a limited production run and during that time period there were still a lot of old F-14As on decks which would have required a lot of maintenance hours to keep flying which would have skewed the numbers in favor of the new F/A-18s.

I'm still wondering if the "Tomcat II" drawing showcased in that article was a genuine Grumman concept or not. According to the article "In 1990, Grumman defined many versions of what it thought the F-14D could be. The illustration at left shows one of the final designs." Yet it definitely seems quite a bit different from the less radical Super Tomcat 21.

 

[isayyo2]

While it's a damn shame the Navy missed out on a new generation of F-14s I doubt they would have been actually cheaper to operate. I don't know how much money was spent developing the Super Hornet into a combat capable aircraft but procuring them doesn't seem to have been too horribly expensive either, at least for the past decade or so.

It's probably impossible to make an honest comparison since the F-14D had such a limited production run and during that time period there were still a lot of old F-14As on decks which would have required a lot of maintenance hours to keep flying which would have skewed the numbers in favor of the new F/A-18s.

This is basically what the pro-Tomcat community has conjured as their argument. The original Super Hornet selection had far favorable maintenance man hours versus the F-14A majority fleet, not a future F-14D unified fleet. Gleaming from @F-14D's postings many years ago, the A model was more or less a pre-production model and the original B model had lower maintenance requirements through better designed guts with more access panels. A Quickstrike fleet could have been available en-masse by 2000 and far more capable then the block I SH fleet; but would have replaced the A-D Hornets, JSF?

"While F-14A prototype construction continues, F-14B and F-14C engineering development is progressing. As mentioned earlier, planning calls for the F-14As to be operational by April 1973. As the 67th F-14A comes off the line, production is scheduled to switch to the more powerful B-version. First introduction of the F-14C all-weather air-to-ground weapon delivery version with an advanced avionics system for improved fire control will not take place until at least 1976, and probably later. Grumman is also doing some preliminary investigation on an RF-14 reconnaissance version as a possible replacement for RF-4Bs and RA-5Cs late in the 1970s."

HOME OF M.A.T.S. - The most comprehensive Grumman F-14 Reference Work - by Torsten Anft!

www.anft.net

 

[_Del_]

One thing I've always wondered is what did the Super Tomcat offer that the Super Hornet didn't? The same can be said in the reverse, what did the Super Hornet offer that the Super Tomcat didn't?

Range and endurance, particularly with payload, an integrated TCS (or IRST), and the larger radar supporting the Phoenix.

In the scheme of things, the first is probably the biggest bullet point after the Intruders were turfed, though a larger AESA with more TR modules is becoming increasingly valuable.

 

[Manuducati]

While I was working on my blog post about the advanced F-14 versions, I stumble upon this picture that is part of the Cradle of Aviation Museum archive

Seems to be part of a study for a rotodome equipped Tomcat, I keep wondering where the radar associated avionics will fit inside the Tomcat's fuselage.

I’ve seen a very similar joke model of a “Super Duper Hornet” with rotodome, MAD stinger, ALQ-99, and (I think) a buddy pod. The XEF-14Z label here is a giveaway.

Another picture of that model, from https://www.facebook.com/groups/175646840894109/permalink/316100006848791/

 

[fightingirish]

Grumman Artist's Impression of the RF-14
A dedicated recon variant of the F-14 tomcat, project was cancelled in 74
Source: fighterman35 on @DeviantArt

Grumman Artist's Impression of the RF-14 by fighterman35 on DeviantArt

www.deviantart.com

https://flic.kr/p/E6wBdy

View: https://flic.kr/p/E6wBdy

 

[Pioneer]

Grumman Artist's Impression of the RF-14
A dedicated recon variant of the F-14 tomcat, project was cancelled in 74
Source: fighterman35 on @DeviantArt

Grumman Artist's Impression of the RF-14 by fighterman35 on DeviantArt

www.deviantart.com

Well, I never knew there was "a dedicated recon variant of the F-14 Tomcat" - period.


Regards
Pioneer