Early, high wing Vickers Wellington & Wellington projects

[Rickshaw]

I was recently reading the Wellington's entry in the Putnam book on Vickers and it was mentioned the original design for the Wellington featured a high-wing position for the main plane. I was wondering, are there any drawings of this proposal?

 

[toura]

Re: Early, high wing Vickers Wellington

Hi Kadija
You certainly speak of :
Specification B 9/32 for a 2 engines medium day bomber.
3 designs
Vickers "Crecy"
Handley Page Hampden
Bristol 131.

The Vickers "Crecy" was a hight wings monoplane..........
but I have nothing more......... the studies became the "wellington"
Could you help ?
Thanks

 

[toura]

Re: Early, high wing Vickers Wellington

Something more
Perhaps Vickers type 271 ?

 

[toura]

Re: Early, high wing Vickers Wellington

3 views drawing of the vickers 271 !!!???

 

[airman]

Re: Early, high wing Vickers Wellington

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Air_Ministry_specifications

On wikipedia there are the list of Air Ministry specificications

 

[lark]

A bit clarification...

Vickers proposed at least two designs to the original Spec.B9/32.

The first in February 1933 was a high wing monoplane powered
by two Bristol Mercury VI engines.The aircraft had provision for wingfolding.
The horizontal tailplane was suported by struts. The undercariage retracted in
the backside of the engine gondola's and was partly enclosed.

The second dated from march 1934 was a midwing monoplane powered by R.R.Goshawk engines.
The u.c. was fully enclosed.This design bore no resemblence to to the later designs.
Both concepts would be covered by Vickers number 249.

Vickers type 271 was the constuctors answer to the already much revised and relaxed Spec B9/32.
For a few months in 1936 it was know as the 'Crecy' but in September this was changed in Wellington.

By the way, a designs study for a civil version of the Wellington was prepared in May 1939.

Sourcesrofile Publications nr.125.Falkner & Sons.London.
Air Enthusiast nr.33 - United Kingdom.
and RAF Bomber Command and its Aircraft Vol.2 James Goulding&Philip Moyes.IanAllan U.K.1978.

 

[Apophenia]

Re: Early, high wing Vickers Wellington

Very interesting. Thanks Paul!

I saw mention of the Vickers Type 249 with Goshawk or Perseus powerplants. I'm not sure if that was meant to suggest that the high-winged version morphed from Mercury to Perseus or whether the mid-wing version had the Perseus as a radial option to the Goshawk.

1939 civil Wellington: Any indication as to whether this study was simply for a 'Wimpy with seats' or perhaps something on its way to becoming the Type 491 Viking??

 

[lark]

Re: Early, high wing Vickers Wellington

The Bristol powerd high wing design should have had a slight resemblence
to the later 'Crecy' which the 1934 Goshawk powered midwing had not.

Both probably had the 249 number since Vickers used it's system for types,designs and even drawings
under the same Vickers number but with different sheet numbers.

Give me the weekend to find more about the proposed civil version
As far as I remember it had not yet something to do with the Viking.

 

[Jemiba]

Give me the weekend to find more about the proposed civil version

Paul found it and send me the copies, here are the scans from Profile Volume 1 N° 1
and Air Enthisiast N° 33:

 

[airman]

Re: Early, high wing Vickers Wellington

Interesting images, especially proposed version with folded wings !

 

[Apophenia]

Re: Early, high wing Vickers Wellington

Wonderful! (Thanks Paul and Jens).

I wonder, do the folding wings suggest a planned span of over 100 feet (RAF hangar consideration)?

 

[Nick Sumner]

Re: Early, high wing Vickers Wellington

The last image appears to be a passenger plane version of the Wellington - something pre Viking.

 

[Apophenia]

Re: Early, high wing Vickers Wellington

Curious about the possible external appearance of that 'commercial Wellington', I've cobbled together a comparison between that project and the postwar Type 610 Viking 1B airliner.

[Mods: please move to User Artwork if inappropriate for this section.]

 

[Jemiba]

Re: Early, high wing Vickers Wellington

Interesting comparison, thanks ! Shows quite well the all new fuselage
of the Viking, I think.
By comparing the "civilised" Wellington with the pre-war civil design found
by lark, it seems, the nose of the latter was more drooped, than in the later
conversion.
(just a quick and dirty attempt of a visualisation)

 

[lark]

Re: Early, high wing Vickers Wellington

Interesting drawings gentlemen..thanks.

 

[lark]

Re: Early, high wing Vickers Wellington & Wellington Projects

From 'Profile Publications' Nr.125

A civil version of the Wellington was prepared as a design study
for Mr.Nigel Norman of Airwork in May 1939,and in September that year, two
representatives of British Airways (the pre-war airline merged with Imperial Airways to
form B.O.A.C.) visited Weybridge to discuss a civil version for use on the
West African route,with the possibility of an extension across the South Atlantic.
An other study was submitted to the Air Ministry for a transport version providing for
a maximum of 13 troops without navigator or,alternatively 11 troops with navigator.

so far: Profile 125 "Vickers Wellington I & II" , page 4

 

[Apophenia]

Thanks Paul. I guess it was 50/50 on which prewar airline it would be

So, another stab at the commerical Wellington in British Airways Ltd scheme and RAF markings pinched from an obliging Harrow.

Jens: I haven't corrected the nose but I know what you mean. Enlarged, the 3-view doesn't match most Wellington drawings all that well. Still drooping the nose as you've shown would improve pilot visibility on the ground.

 

[lark]

I ,personal,think that the nose shape of the civil proposal was more like the
prototype B9/32 as constructed.Perhaps a bit longer....

In 'TwentyFirst Profile Vol.1 No1 I read this:

Vickers received a letter from the Air Ministry of 12 September 1933 which virtually decided the company
to redesign their B9/32 submision ,as the letter asked for an increased weight to 6792lbs.(empty) and the addition of a front gun turret.The company altered the design from a high to a mid-wing
with the Goshawk engines and the Air Ministry awarded an official contract
No.27442/33 together with an official order for a prototype.

Vickers produced yet another proposal for a commercial monoplane with Pegasus III M 3 engines, the
general arrangement drawings revealing a modern cantilever ,high winged monoplane.

My ,once again personal, conclusion is that the Vickers civil aircraft ,as was not
so close to the production Wellington....

 

[luftsturm]

Looking for Wellington VI high altitude and He- 115 V1/V2 3 view Drawings

Dear friends,

I´m looking for a Wellington VI High altitude bomber and He-115 V1/V2 3 View drawings.

Thank´s!!!

 

[toura]

Re: Looking for Wellington VI high altitude and He- 115 V1/V2 3 view Drawings

Hi luftsturm

The Wellington

 

[Jemiba]

Re: Looking for Wellington VI high altitude and He- 115 V1/V2 3 view Drawings

From C.F. Andrews "Vickers Aircraft since 1908", Putnam :

 

[Justo Miranda]

Re: Looking for Wellington VI high altitude and He- 115 V1/V2 3 view Drawings

Post-2

 

[Justo Miranda]

Re: Looking for Wellington VI high altitude and He- 115 V1/V2 3 view Drawings

post-3

 

[Justo Miranda]

Re: Looking for Wellington VI high altitude and He- 115 V1/V2 3 view Drawings

Post-4

 

[Merv_P]

Re: Looking for Wellington VI high altitude and He- 115 V1/V2 3 view Drawings

Excellent drawings for both aircraft; thank you. That pilot's station on the Wellington isn't for the claustrophobic ...

 

[luftsturm]

Re: Looking for Wellington VI high altitude and He- 115 V1/V2 3 view Drawings

SPETACULAR!!!

Thank´s toura, jeniba and Justo Miranta!!!

Amazing drawings!!!!!!

 

[PMN1]

With the cargo version of the actual Wellington, did the wing spar affect the layout of the cabin?

I'm wondering how it compared to the AW23.

 

[Apophenia]

This is the remains of a Varsity (WJ945) but it says it all about the spar placement in the cabin of a Wellington descendant.

Source: http://www.oldprops.ukhome.net/Viking%20Photographs.htm

 

[JohnR]

Are there still any Wellingtons in flying condition?

Regards

 

[Apophenia]

AFAIK, there's only two complete Wellingons -- MF628 at the RAF Museum London (but currently under resto at Cosford) and N2980 at Brooklands.
http://www.brooklandsmuseum.com/index.php?/explore/vickers-290-wellington-1a-n2980-1939/

 

[JohnR]

Thanks for the info, it's amazing to think that there are only two left out of the thousands built.

 

[blackkite]

Re: Looking for Wellington VI high altitude and He- 115 V1/V2 3 view Drawings

Hi!
Wellington Mk.VI picture.
https://www.reddit.com/r/WWIIplanes/comments/4naj94/a_vickers_wellington_b_mk_vi_in_flight_info_in/
Wellington Mk.V picture.
http://aviadejavu.ru/Site/Arts/Art7560.htm

Detailed nose cutaway of Wellington Ⅵ.
https://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=20595.0;attach=205056;image
Wikipedia.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vickers_Wellington

"Type 407 and Type 421 Wellington Mark V Second and first prototypes respectively: three were built, designed for pressurised, high-altitude operations using turbocharged Hercules VIII engines.

Wellington Mark VI, One Wellington Mark V with Merlin 60-series engines, high-altitude prototype only."

"Type 443 Wellington Mark V, one Wellington was used to test the Bristol Hercules VIII engine."

 

[hole in the ground]

Re: Looking for Wellington VI high altitude and He- 115 V1/V2 3 view Drawings

Unpressurised turret? Poor tail end Charlie. Was there even any point in having a rear gunner if they weren't going to get a pressurised compartment?

 

[iverson]

Re: Looking for Wellington VI high altitude and He- 115 V1/V2 3 view Drawings

Unpressurised turret? Poor tail end Charlie. Was there even any point in having a rear gunner if they weren't going to get a pressurised compartment?

I don't know, but I suspect that the turret would only be needed when the airplane wasn't yet at maximum altitude. Perhaps the gunner joined the crew in the pressure cabin before the climb and returned to the turret after the descent?

 

[iverson]

Re: Looking for Wellington VI high altitude and He- 115 V1/V2 3 view Drawings

Here are some profiles I drew a few years back.

 

[Motocar]

Re: Looking for Wellington VI high altitude and He- 115 V1/V2 3 view Drawings

Cutaway Vickers Armstrongs Type 426 Wellintong Mk.V, Prepared by Vickers Armstromgs and retoched by Motocar

 

[blackkite]

Re: Looking for Wellington VI high altitude and He- 115 V1/V2 3 view Drawings

Beautiful and exciting drawings!! Thanks gentlemen.

 

[blackkite]

Re: Looking for Wellington VI high altitude and He- 115 V1/V2 3 view Drawings

Unpressurised turret? Poor tail end Charlie. Was there even any point in having a rear gunner if they weren't going to get a pressurised compartment?

Indeed!!! Sharp.

 

[blackkite]

Re: Looking for Wellington VI high altitude and He- 115 V1/V2 3 view Drawings

Unpressurised turret? Poor tail end Charlie. Was there even any point in having a rear gunner if they weren't going to get a pressurised compartment?

I don't know, but I suspect that the turret would only be needed when the airplane wasn't yet at maximum altitude. Perhaps the gunner joined the crew in the pressure cabin before the climb and returned to the turret after the descent?

You are sharp,too.

 

[Hood]

On the issue of the Mk.V's rear turret the Vickers Putnam states;
"At an acceptance conference held on 15 November, 1940...Among details proposed were that the rear gun turret could not be expected to be work-able under all conditions by a rear gunner. So the rear turrets were fixed and operated by an electro-magnetic firing control from the pressure cabin, a periscope being installed to provide observation of the rear hemisphere."

The Mk.VI was to have had a pressurised Frazer-Nash 70 turret with four .303in MGs but it was not available in time so the same solution was carried out, locking the standard Fraser-Nash 20A turret and firing the guns electro-magnetically from the pressure cabin and aimed with a periscope.
It's also worth noting that the original 3-man crew and 4-man crews did not provide for a gunner.