Dutch Fokker bomber and fighter projects from the late 30ties

[T-50]

Hello guys I'm searching for never build Fokker project developed in the late 30ties,for example the G-2 a successor to the Fokker G-1 and i believe Fokker has all so plans for an 4 engined bomber.I know that Fokker was all so working on a successor of the D-21 and D-23 fighters with a retractable under carriage and a Merlin or DB601 engine with a enclosed cockpit!
Could someone please provide me with info/pictures of this projects? it would be marvelous if someone can!
Thanks in advance
best regards T-50

 

[Pepe Rezende]

You can find a lot of info here:

http://www.dutch-aviation.nl/index3/1919-1939/index3-1934.html

 

[Jos Heyman]

The G.2, or type 154, or CG.16 (all the same aircraft) was an aircaft which was to be powered by RR Merlin engines. It looked like a T.VIII with a redesigned nose and a faired over center cockpit covering. The proposal was made in 1937 and was not built.

 

[T-50]

Hello guys I Must say its very interesting stuff especially the G-2 projects I'm very pleased ,Did some one of you have some info about the successor of the D-21 and D-23?
I thank you for the info about the G-2
cheers T-50

 

[airman]

The Fokker T.7 seems really wateraircraft variant of Fokker T.5
http://www.dutch-aviation.nl/index5/Military/index5-1%20T7W.html

 

[Apophenia]

The ontwerp 115 also looks impressive.

http://www.dutch-aviation.nl/pictures/Fokker/Military/Fokker%20design%20115.jpg

 

[Jemiba]

"The ontwerp 115 also looks impressive."

Would rather like to post just a link to the now sadly gone airwarfareforum,
as there quite a number of dutch projects could be found including the T.VI/
design 115. The drawing was said to be an original manufacturers drawing.

 

[airman]

Wow, Jemiba thanks for this new image of Fokker T.VI : surely was a good project !

 

[airman]

So Fokker TV, like Fokker XXIII , had an interesting deveploment projects : from " Dutch Profile Fokker Tv" i have seen there was three variant projects :
T.V-A - variant trasport for 21 soldiers , T.VI with more powerful Bristol Hercules of 1375 Hp with 480 km/h - there was also a Project 115 of 1934 for a four engines bombers with this designation , and T.VII that seem little more great !
Other things : Possible operators for T.V was Sweden for 9 airplanes , Spain ( october 1935) , Siam (3), Iran and Greece (12).




post your contribute if you have more informations about projects derived from T.V!

 

[lark]

Please see Jemiba's contribution in:

'Dutch Fokker bomber and fighter projects from
the late 30ties'..

 

[Antonio]

Topics merged

 

[airman]

Topics merged

thanks, than , about T.V, T.VII was a watercraft variant of T.V, T.VI a more powerful variant of T.V with Bristol Hercules of 1375 Hp and his designation is shared with name of four bomber project 115 of 1934.

 

[airman]

"Fokker Design 119 Prototype
The first Fokker heavy bomber was the Design 115, a bomber adaptation of F.XXXVI civil airliner, updated.
The second is a further expansion of the idea, brought to flying status.

Twin Nose / tail turrets, single dorsal turret and ventral dustbin, all 7.92mm. 10,000lb bombload. Structure is built to take +4,100lbs in future expansion, which is expected to be heavier arms and armor . Current max weight 62,486

1934-5 Heavy Bomber
stats are loaded
Rough field capable
Crew : 6
Powerplant : 4 x Jumo 211A 1,085hp inline
Armament : Equipped with 2 x 7.92mm MGs and a dorsal turret with 2 7.92mm MGs, radio.
Armor : 10mm armor disk
Payload : 10,000 lbs official (14,100lbs unofficial)
Range : 1,620nm at 150kts
Rate of climb : 473 fpm
Loaded Stall speed : 69kts
Ceiling : 20,500 ft
Max speed : 209kts (240 mph) @ 13,000
Corner speed : 118kts, 6.6 deg/ sec
Weight (max) : 62,486 (66,700) lbs
Cost : $224,000
Wing Span: 124 ft Length: 78 ft. Wing Area: 2,164 ft2
Wingloading : 31lbs/ ft2 loaded"
found on
http://www.wesworld.jk-clan.de/thread.php?postid=61717

speculation or not ? ???

 

[lark]

Kaiser Kirk is mixing up fact and fiction...

 

[Jos Heyman]

Getting back to D22 and D23:
D22 was a version of the D21 with a retractable undecarriage. It was not built.
The D23 was a twin engined, twin boom fighter of which the first and only one flew on 39 May 1939.

Hope this helps

 

[lark]

In September 1937 Fokker produced the new designs Ontw.150
and Ontw.151.These had a radial-Bristol Hercules- and an
in line -DB 600H or RR Merlin - engine respectively.
These parallel and completely new designs attracted the
the interest of the ML and were soon referred to as D.22.

In June 19 1939 a data sheet appeared mentioning a D.21
with a Bristol Perseus engine and six guns.
On June 22 , a D.24 data-sheet appeared with exactly the same information .
Notes on a drawing of Ontw.150 ( see drawing presented by Hesham) indicates
that it could have been a modification of that type.

The D.24 should have been Fokker Ont.192.

Several sources:Nederlandse Vliegtuig Encyclopedie-Fokker D.XXI
Air Enthusiast Nr. 95
Fokker D.21 Collection d'Avions
Fokker Vliegtuigen-Collection De Alk
Hufo Hooftman book collection about Dutch aviation.

 

[Bailey]

Thanks Lark...at least I haven't gone completely round the bend yet then

Cheers Bailey

 

[lark]

My pleasure Bailey

If you ever find your source ,I'm interested..

 

[mz]

So, any reason why Fokker was so left behind? The D.XXI was their best fielded fighter and it had fixed undercarriage. Was it because of lack of aluminium expertise, so they built wood- and fabric planes which didn't work well at high speeds? No advanced glues or Mosquito style mold built sandwich structures yet available at that point?

 

[hesham]

Hi,

the P.126 was a project of 1935 for low-wing three-seat
light bomber.

 

[Tophe]

Thanks to Lark, speaking Dutch, I have been directed to the book "Fokker G-1" (Lanasta publication*). From profiles in it, I drew slanting views of the projects Ontwerp 179 (Design 179) of 1939. Much more is included, but out of my special scope on 1939-45 years (for updating my "forked ghosts" site http://cmeunier.chez-alice.fr/update_FG.htm ).

*: http://www.lanasta.com/Shop/product/121/fokker-g1-le-faucheur.html

 

[airman]

http://www.aviarmor.net/aww2/aircraft_exp/other/Fokker%20%20T.9.htm

Don't forget Fokker T.IX ! B)

 

[Justo Miranda]

Drawings here (escanear 2)
http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,7866.15.html

 

[richard]

From " Handbuch der Luftfahrt 1936 " :

 

[hesham]

Hi,


T.6W was a developed version of T.V,fitted with two Bristol Hercules engines.
T.7W was a twin-engined torpedo recce floatplane,never built.
B.5 was a long range three-engined recce,torpedo and bombing flying boat.
D.24 was a single seat fighter,I spoke about it before.

 

[Jemiba]

Good find Hesham, can you tell us the source for further reading ?
To my opinion, the B.5 bears more than a superficial resemblance to the
Do 24, apart from the wing floats substituting the stub wings. Maybe for
patent reasons ?

 

[richard]

Bonjour


Here , you will find the story : ( please , look at " development")


www.fly.to/do24

 

[Jemiba]

Thanks for that link, interesting reading !
As it seems, the very similar layout really was just the result of the requirement.
And Fokker even had prepared a design with stub wings, so avoiding license fees
couldn't have been high on the priorities !

 

[Jos Heyman]

In 1935 Fokker designed the B-V reconnaissance flying boat for the MLD (Dutch Naval flying service) as a replacement for the Dornier Wal. No aircraft were ordered and no aircraft was built.

 

[hesham]

Good find Hesham, can you tell us the source for further reading ?
To my opinion, the B.5 bears more than a superficial resemblance to the
Do 24, apart from the wing floats substituting the stub wings. Maybe for
patent reasons ?

OK my dear Jemiba,


here is the source;


http://www.dutch-aviation.nl/index5/Military/index5-1%20Fokker%20Military%20Aircrafts.html

 

[Jemiba]

Greta site, thank you !
All the early types are shown there, too.

 

[T-50]

I believe the D-24 was a aircraft project comparable with aircraft such as the BF-109 and Spitfire and Curtiss P-40
It was planned with an daimlerBenz or Merlin engine,its configuration was a low wing fighter with retractable undercarriage.
enclosed cockpit was also planned!

 

[Arjen]

Peter de Jong's recently published 'Fokker D.21', pages 81-82, mentions two Fokker designs, 150 (Bristol Hercules) and 151 (DB600 / RR Merlin). Both were low-wing, retractable gear fighters. According to De Jong, if just one of these designs had been built, it would have been designated D.22. In the event, neither was built. In the unlikely event of sufficient funds being around for both to be built, one might have been the D.22, the other the D.24 - D.23 already being assigned to a push-pull prototype.

The D.24 designation was used much later for a joint Fokker-Republic project, the D-24 Alliance. In my opinion, the D.24 designation probably was not considered for any pre-war design.

 

[theponja]

Arjen please do you have a bigger picture?

 

[Arjen]

Certainly. Reply #3, 6th picture. http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,15830.msg153890.html#msg153890

PM me for a bigger scan.

 

[theponja]

Wow!!! How I missed that thread? Maybe I've got more to the aerospace section. Thanks a lot!!!

 

[Stargazer]

Wow!!! How I missed that thread? Maybe I've got more to the aerospace section. Thanks a lot!!!

Well, "Aerospace" means basically that the aircraft was procured and serviced, as opposed to projects/prototypes/research aircraft. That doesn't mean it's not old or little-known!

 

[hesham]

Bonjour


Here , you will find the story : ( please , look at " development")


www.fly.to/do24

From that site,which was mentioned by my dear Richard,the Fokker B.V and B.VA
projects.

 

[toura]

Hi all
From an old " le Fana de l'aviation"

 

[hesham]

Great my dear Toura,


and here is the Fokker G.2 and T-6 or T-VI from that site;
http://www.nederlandseluchtvaart.nl/forums/f13-fokker/vreemde-fokker-g-1-a-8837/


also a drawing to G.1 variant,but I don't know this one.