Douglas Designations

[Stargazer]

Very strange Star,
Even a C 103A -late 1938-was described in the a fore mentioned book..

Very strange indeed. But the strangest aspect of this is that a DB- designation indicates a bomber, so why give it to an aircraft that would be submitted as a transport from the start?? ??? ??? ??? :

 

[Jos Heyman]

I would strongly suggest that the Douglas C 103 discussed here has nothing whatsoever to do with the Grumman C-103s that were impressed in November 1942. I suggest different sets of designations, with the Douglas C 103 probably being a company designation.

 

[lark]

Gentlemen , it looks like there is a little misunderstanding here..

"C-103" in this case is not a Douglas nor a Grumman design as such
but the number of an Army AirCorps specification calling for the
development of an experimental attack bomber design and the
construction of a prototype. It was released on 10 September 1938
and replaced by revised specification C-103A on 15 December 1938.

 

[Stargazer]

Gentlemen , it looks like there is a little misunderstanding here..

"C-103" in this case is not a Douglas nor a Grumman design as such
but the number of an Army AirCorps specification calling for the
development of an experimental attack bomber design and the
construction of a prototype. It was released on 10 September 1938
and replaced by revised specification C-103A on 15 December 1938.

Thanks for clarifying this point! Of course now that you mention it it makes sense, but I've got to say it's a bit hard to understand the numbering systems that the Air Corps and then the Air Force used for its aircraft competitions... The Design Competitions in C-, X- or XC-, the Circular Proposal such as 39-640, the MX- specifications—and even later the Weapon Systems designations starting in WS- ! Wish I could find some serious literature on the subject...

 

[Maveric]

Douglas D.510 (D.C.5-510)
Douglas D.511 (D.C.5-511)
Douglas D.518 (D.C.5-518)
Douglas D.535 (D.C.5-535)

Source attached (L+K)

 

[Stargazer]

Douglas D.510 (D.C.5-510)
Douglas D.511 (D.C.5-511)
Douglas D.518 (D.C.5-518)
Douglas D.535 (D.C.5-535)

Source attached (L+K)

The above is correct, but since I don't read Polish and I'm not the only one, allow me to share the same info from my own Douglas file in English, with a little more detail. You'll also noticed that L+K forgot to mention the R3D-3 designation.

• c/n 411 was the DC-5 prototype (no known model designation). It was registered NX21701, then NC21701. What L+K forgot to mention is the fact that this too was impressed by the U.S. Navy during the war, as the R3D-3 (BuAer #08005).
• c/n 422 was to be a DC-5-518 for Pennsylvania Central, but wasn't completed.
• c/n 423 was to be a DC-5-518 for Pennsylvania Central, but wasn't completed.
• c/n 424 was a DC-5-510 for KLM on their West Indian routes. At various times of its career it carried the civil registrations PH-AXA, PJ-AIV(-AIW?), PK-ADD, and VH-CXB. In KLM guise, it was christened Wakago. In military guise, it was impressed by the U.S.A.A.F. as a C-110 (s/n 41-424, ater as 44-83231). When damaged, it was finally used for spares for VH-CXC.
• c/n 425 was to be a DC-5-535 for SCADTA in Colombia, but wasn't completed.
• c/n 426 was a DC-5-510 for KLM on their West Indian routes. At various times of its career it carried the civil registrations G-AFYK, PH-AXB, PJ-AIZ, PK-ADC, VH-CXC and VH-ARD. In KLM guise, it was christened Zonvogel (which means "sunbird"). In military guise, it was impressed by the U.S.A.A.F. as a C-110, probably as 41-426.
• c/n 427 was to be a DC-5-518 for Pennsylvania Central, but wasn't completed.
• c/n 428 was a DC-5-511 for KNILM. At various times of its career it carried the civil registrations PK-ADB, PH-AXE and VH-CXA. In military guise, it was impressed by the U.S.A.A.F. as a C-110 (s/n 41-428). It was apparently destroyed in 1942, though other sources claim it was later later impressed again as s/n 44-83230.
• c/n 429 was to be a DC-5-518 for Pennsylvania Central, but wasn't completed.
• c/n 430 was a DC-5-511 for KNILM, registered as PK-ADA. It was then purchased and evaluated by the Japanese Imperial Air Force.
• c/n 606 was built as an R3D-1 for the U.S. Navy (BuAer #1901).
• c/n 607 was built as an R3D-1 for the U.S. Navy (BuAer #1902).
• c/n 608 was built as an R3D-1 for the U.S. Navy (BuAer #1903).
• c/n 609 was built as an R3D-2 for the U.S. Marine Corps (BuAer #1904).
• c/n 610 was built as an R3D-2 for the U.S. Marine Corps (BuAer #1905).
• c/n 611 was built as an R3D-2 for the U.S. Marine Corps (BuAer #1906). Some photos show it sporting the number "152-J-2".
• c/n 612 was built as an R3D-2 for the U.S. Marine Corps (BuAer #1907).

Please note that constructor's numbers were from the El Segundo system, taken over from Northrop. Aircraft c/n 411 was the first real Douglas aircraft built there, as most of c/n 346 to 410 consisted of Gammas or their A-17/Model 8A derivatives. Also the so-called "model numbers" for Douglas at the time consisted more in contract numbers, the different variants being mostly similar. They worked in a way like North American's charge number (NA-) system or Boeing's hyphenated 7*7-*** series.

 

[Jos Heyman]

Some addition to this listing:

1. C/n 422 to 430 were originally ordered by Britain with registrations G-AFYG to G-AFYO.
2. the 1941 serials were applied locally in Australia and are not formally part of the USAAF serial listings. Then, sometime in 1944 the USAAF in Australia decided to send a 'write off note', or something similar to (I would presume) the Pentagon where somebody probably said "oh sh**, we cannot write these off without having them entered into the books" so the three aircraft were serialled 44-83230 (c/n 428), 44-83231 (c/n 424) and 44-83232 (c/n 426) and were probably written off on the same day.
3. c/n 426 eventually ended up in Israel.

Much of this info comes from the work by a John Hopton that I received in hard copy some ten years ago (far too much to scan, so please do not ask!). If there is interest I could, however, extract relevant data from Hopton's detailed lists for these aircraft and make that available through here.

 

[Stargazer]

Wow! Some worthy addition to the subject, for sure!

Much of this info comes from the work by a John Hopton that I received in hard copy some ten years ago (far too much to scan, so please do not ask!). If there is interest I could, however, extract relevant data from Hopton's detailed lists for these aircraft and make that available through here.

Or... you could start work on a book devoted to the DC-5. It has been overlooked by all publishers to this day and I'd love for it to get the profile book it deserves!

 

[Steve Pace]

See www.abcdlist.nl for a complete DAC production list, Convair and BAC too. -SP

 

[Stargazer]

See www.abcdlist.nl for a complete DAC production list, Convair and BAC too. -SP

Thanks! I've overused that list a long time ago... but they're missing A LOT of numbers I have. So here goes...

For the Santa Monica plant (first 2200 numbers of the list):

- c/n 396/404 were for the T2D-1 [BuAer A7587 to A7595]
- c/n 477 was for the XO-14 [s/n 28-194 > P-539]
- c/n 478/502 were for the PD-1 [BuAer A7979 to A8003]
- c/n 915/924 were for the O-2MC [s/n unknown]
- c/n 925/926 were for the O-2M-2 [s/n unknown]
- c/n 927 was for the XT3D-1 [BuAer A8730]
- c/n 928/945 were for the P2D-1 [BuAer A8644 to A8661]
- c/n 946 was for an O-2M-2 [s/n unknown]
- c/n 1000 was for a Dolphin, designated as Navy XRD-1 [BuAer A8876]
- c/n 1049 to 1068 were for O-2MC-2 [s/n unknown]
- c/n 1127/1131 were for O-2MC-3 [s/n unknown]
- c/n 1136 was for the XFD-1 [BuAer 9223]
- c/n 1174 was for the YOA-5 [s/n 33-17]
- c/n 1235 was for the XP3D-1 [BuAer 9613]
- c/n 1236 was for the XO2D-1 [BuAer 9412]
- c/n 1262/1267 were for the RD-3 [BuAer 9528 to 9533]
- c/n 1281 was for a Dolphin [found as "T-203", no details]
- c/n 1336/1347 were for O-2MC-5 [s/n unknown]
- c/n 1379/1400 were for O-2MC-6 [s/n unknown]

- c/n 1501/1502 are still unidentified (perhaps the DF-151 flying boats, J-ANES and J-ANET)
- c/n 1522/1526 are still unidentified
- c/n 1550 is still unidentified (perhaps the XB-19?)
- c/n 1569-1579 are still unidentified
- c/n 1587 is still unidentified
- c/n 1591-1597 are still unidentified
- c/n 1602-1629 are still unidentified
- c/n 1895-1899 are still unidentified
- c/n 2150/2164 are still unidentified


For the El Segundo (ex-Northrop) plant:

- c/n 1207/1208 were for the two XSB2D-1 prototypes
- c/n 1353/1358 were for for SBD-3 [BuAer 06585 to 06590]
- c/n 1359/1360 were for the XCG-7, of which only the first one was built [s/n 41-29621]
- c/n 1361/1362 were for the XCG-8, of which only the first one was built [s/n 41-29622]
- c/n 1376/1403 were for SBD-3 [BuAer 06591 to 06618]
- c/n 1867/1875 were for SBD-4 [BuAer 06962 to 06970]
- c/n 1876/1891 were for BTD-1 [BuAer 09048 to 09062, and 04959]
- c/n 2221/2235 were for SBD-4 [BuAer 06971 to 06985]
- c/n 2237/2240 were for SBD-5 [BuAer 10808 to 10811]
- c/n 2241/2246 were for SBD-4 [BuAer 06986 to 06991]
- c/n 2627/2646 were for SBD-4 [BuAer 10637 to 10656]
- c/n 2647/2656 were for SBD-5 [BuAer 10812 to 10821]
- c/n 2657/2672 were for SBD-4 [BuAer 10657 to 10672]
- c/n 2729/2732 were for SBD-4 [BuAer 10699 to 10702]
- c/n 2733/2752 were for SBD-5 [BuAer 10822 to 10841]
- c/n 2753/2786 were for SBD-4 [BuAer 10703 to 10736]
- c/n 2787/2806 were for SBD-5 [BuAer 10842 to 10861]
- c/n 2807/2830 were for SBD-4 [BuAer 10737 to 10760]
- c/n 2831/2860 were for SBD-5 [BuAer 10862 to 10891]
- c/n 2861/2884 were for SBD-4 [BuAer 10761 to 10784]
- c/n 2885/2914 were for SBD-5 [BuAer 10892 to 10921]
- c/n 2915/2934 were for SBD-4 [BuAer 10785 to 10804]
- c/n 2935/2968 were for SBD-5 [BuAer 10922 to 10955]
- c/n 2969/2970 were for SBD-4 [BuAer 10805 and 10806]
- c/n 3266/3360 were for SBD-5 [BuAer 10956 to 11051]
- c/n 3391/3404 were for SBD-5 [BuAer 11052 to 11065]
- c/n 5561/5562 were for the XTB2D-1 prototypes [BuAer 36933 and 36934]
- c/n 6670/6672 were for the XF3D-1 prototypes [BuAer 121457 to 121459]

- c/n 1363 is still unidentified
- c/n 892 to 1912 are still unidentified
- c/n 2215/2220 are still unidentified
- c/n 2971/3235 are still unidentified
- c/n 5563 is still unidentified
- c/n 6570/6669 are still unidentified

 

[Steve Pace]

See www.abcdlist.nl for a complete DAC production list, Convair and BAC too. -SP

Thanks! I've overused that list a long time ago... but they're missing A LOT of numbers I have. So here goes...

For the Santa Monica plant (first 2200 numbers of the list):

- c/n 396/404 were for the T2D-1 [BuAer A7587 to A7595]
- c/n 477 was for the XO-14 [s/n 28-194 > P-539]
- c/n 478/502 were for the PD-1 [BuAer A7979 to A8003]
- c/n 915/924 were for the O-2MC [s/n unknown]
- c/n 925/926 were for the O-2M-2 [s/n unknown]
- c/n 927 was for the XT3D-1 [BuAer A8730]
- c/n 928/945 were for the P2D-1 [BuAer A8644 to A8661]
- c/n 946 was for an O-2M-2 [s/n unknown]
- c/n 1000 was for a Dolphin, designated as Navy XRD-1 [BuAer A8876]
- c/n 1049 to 1068 were for O-2MC-2 [s/n unknown]
- c/n 1127/1131 were for O-2MC-3 [s/n unknown]
- c/n 1136 was for the XFD-1 [BuAer 9223]
- c/n 1174 was for the YOA-5 [s/n 33-17]
- c/n 1235 was for the XP3D-1 [BuAer 9613]
- c/n 1236 was for the XO2D-1 [BuAer 9412]
- c/n 1262/1267 were for the RD-3 [BuAer 9528 to 9533]
- c/n 1281 was for a Dolphin [found as "T-203", no details]
- c/n 1336/1347 were for O-2MC-5 [s/n unknown]
- c/n 1379/1400 were for O-2MC-6 [s/n unknown]

- c/n 1501/1502 are still unidentified (perhaps the DF-151 flying boats, J-ANES and J-ANET)
- c/n 1522/1526 are still unidentified
- c/n 1550 is still unidentified (perhaps the XB-19?)
- c/n 1569-1579 are still unidentified
- c/n 1587 is still unidentified
- c/n 1591-1597 are still unidentified
- c/n 1602-1629 are still unidentified
- c/n 1895-1899 are still unidentified
- c/n 2150/2164 are still unidentified


For the El Segundo (ex-Northrop) plant:

- c/n 1207/1208 were for the two XSB2D-1 prototypes
- c/n 1353/1358 were for for SBD-3 [BuAer 06585 to 06590]
- c/n 1359/1360 were for the XCG-7, of which only the first one was built [s/n 41-29621]
- c/n 1361/1362 were for the XCG-8, of which only the first one was built [s/n 41-29622]
- c/n 1376/1403 were for SBD-3 [BuAer 06591 to 06618]
- c/n 1867/1875 were for SBD-4 [BuAer 06962 to 06970]
- c/n 1876/1891 were for BTD-1 [BuAer 09048 to 09062, and 04959]
- c/n 2221/2235 were for SBD-4 [BuAer 06971 to 06985]
- c/n 2237/2240 were for SBD-5 [BuAer 10808 to 10811]
- c/n 2241/2246 were for SBD-4 [BuAer 06986 to 06991]
- c/n 2627/2646 were for SBD-4 [BuAer 10637 to 10656]
- c/n 2647/2656 were for SBD-5 [BuAer 10812 to 10821]
- c/n 2657/2672 were for SBD-4 [BuAer 10657 to 10672]
- c/n 2729/2732 were for SBD-4 [BuAer 10699 to 10702]
- c/n 2733/2752 were for SBD-5 [BuAer 10822 to 10841]
- c/n 2753/2786 were for SBD-4 [BuAer 10703 to 10736]
- c/n 2787/2806 were for SBD-5 [BuAer 10842 to 10861]
- c/n 2807/2830 were for SBD-4 [BuAer 10737 to 10760]
- c/n 2831/2860 were for SBD-5 [BuAer 10862 to 10891]
- c/n 2861/2884 were for SBD-4 [BuAer 10761 to 10784]
- c/n 2885/2914 were for SBD-5 [BuAer 10892 to 10921]
- c/n 2915/2934 were for SBD-4 [BuAer 10785 to 10804]
- c/n 2935/2968 were for SBD-5 [BuAer 10922 to 10955]
- c/n 2969/2970 were for SBD-4 [BuAer 10805 and 10806]
- c/n 3266/3360 were for SBD-5 [BuAer 10956 to 11051]
- c/n 3391/3404 were for SBD-5 [BuAer 11052 to 11065]
- c/n 5561/5562 were for the XTB2D-1 prototypes [BuAer 36933 and 36934]
- c/n 6670/6672 were for the XF3D-1 prototypes [BuAer 121457 to 121459]

- c/n 1363 is still unidentified
- c/n 892 to 1912 are still unidentified
- c/n 2215/2220 are still unidentified
- c/n 2971/3235 are still unidentified
- c/n 5563 is still unidentified
- c/n 6570/6669 are still unidentified

Good stuff! -SP

 

[Stargazer]

Interestingly, I've just found out that my own Douglas constructor's numbers database, elaborated over the years from many different sources, indicates that Santa Monica c/n 2001 was allocated to the DB-4 which is given there as the XBLR-2/XB-19... I know I wouldn't have written it that way if the source had been dubious.

 

[Stargazer]

Yet some other part of my data contradicts this, since DB-4 also appears next to the DB-280, which was the RCAF Digby I version of the B-18A... So I guess we're back to square one on this question...

 

[Jos Heyman]

Stargazer wrote:
Or... you could start work on a book devoted to the DC-5. It has been overlooked by all publishers to this day and I'd love for it to get the profile book it deserves!
[/quote]
Not feasible - would have to rely too much on Hopton's work.
But here is the DC-5 production record based on Hopton with additions I collected from other sources since then:

c/n type details
411 DC-5 To NX21701 in Feb 1939, later NC21701; to William E Boeing as NC21701 on 19 Apr 1940; impressed by US Navy as R3D-3 on 2 Feb 1942; wfu 30 Jun 1946 at Naval Aeronautical Laboratory, Banana River, FL

422 DC-5-518 To British Airways as G-AFYG on 30 Aug 1939 but not taken up; to Pennsylvania Central Airlines but not taken up; not built and components used for c/n 606 or 607
423 DC-5-518 To British Airways as G-AFYH on 30 Aug 1939 but not taken up; to Pennsylvania Central Airlines but not taken up; not built and components used for c/n 606 or 607
424 DC-5-510 To British Airways as G-AFYI on 30 Aug 1939 but not taken up; to KLM as PH-AXA 'Alk' but not taken up; to KLM (West Indies) as PJ-AIZ 'Zonvogel'; to KNILM as PK-ADC on 19 May 1941; flown to Australia on 28 Feb 1942; given radio call sign VHCXB; to USAAF Australia as 41-424 in Feb 1942; w/o 18 Aug 1942 at Port Moresby, New Guinea; to USAAF as C-110 44-83231 on 20 Jun 1944 (after w/o)
425 DC-5-535 To British Airways as G-AFYJ on 30 Aug 1939 but not taken up; to SCADTA, Columbia but not taken up; not built and components used for c/n 608
426 DC-5-510 To British Airways as G-AFYK on 30 Aug 1939 but not taken up; to KLM as PH-AXB 'Bergeend' but not taken up; to KLM (West Indies) as PJ-AIW 'Wakago'; to KNILM as PK-ADD on 10 Jun 1941; flown to Australia on 28 Feb 1942; given radio call sign VHCXC; to USAAF Australia as 41-426 in Feb 1942; to USAAF as C-110 44-83232 on 20 Jun 1944; to Australian National Airwyas as VH-ARD in Dec 1945; to New Holland Airways as VH-ARD in Feb 1948; to Israel Air Force on 5 Jun 1948; serialled as Israel AF 1501 in Nov 1948 (?); wfu in 1949; to tel Aviv Aeronautical Technical School, Haifa, Israel
427 DC-5-518 To British Airways as G-AFYL on 30 Aug 1939 but not taken up; to Pennsylvania Central Airlines but not taken up; not built and components used for c/n 609
428 DC-5-511 To British Airways as G-AFYM on 30 Aug 1939 but not taken up; to KLM as PH-AXE 'Eend' but not taken up; to KNILM as PK-ADB in Sep 1940; impressed by ML-KNIL as D-904; flown to Australia on 28 Feb 1942; given radio call sign VHCXA; to USAAF Australia as 41-428 in Feb 1942; w/o 6 Nov 1942 at Lurnea Siding, Australia; to USAAF as C-110 44-83230 on 20 Jun 1944 (after w/o)
429 DC-5-518 To British Airways as G-AFYN on 30 Aug 1939 but not taken up; to Pennsylvania Central Airlines but not taken up; not built and components used for c/n 610
430 DC-5-511 To British Airways as G-AFYO on 30 Aug 1939 but not taken up; to KLM as PH-AXG 'Gruto' but not taken up; to KNILM as PK-ADA on 25 Jul 1940; impressed by ML-KNIL as D-905; damaged at Kemajoran, Batavia on 9 Feb 1942; repaired and flown by Japanese Air Force in Japan; wfu 1944 (?)

606 To US Navy as R3D-1 1901; w/o 1 Jun 1940 at Mines Field, CA (before delivery)
607 To US Navy as R3D-1 1902; wfu 31 Jan 1946
608 To US Navy as R3D-1 1903; wfu 31 Jan 1946
609 To US Marine Corps as R3D-2 1904; w/o 7 Dec 1941 at Pearl Harbour, HI
610 To US Marine Corps as R3D-2 1905; wfu 31 Oct 1946
611 To US Marine Corps as R3D-2 1906; wfu 31 Oct 1946
612 To US Marine Corps as R3D-2 1907; wfu 31 Dec 1945

Based on: Hopton, J, Douglas DC-5 - Total Production Record (version 7 Dec 2000) and later additions from various sources
KLM = Koninklijke Luchtvaart Maatschappij (The Netherlands)
KNIL = Koninklijke Nederlands Indische Luchtvaart Maatschappij (Neth East Indies)
ML-KNIL = Militaire Luchtvaart - Koninklijk Nerderlands Indisch Leger (Neth East Indies)

 

[Stargazer]

Thanks Jos for this detailed account of all DC-5s...

 

[hesham]

From my dear Stargazer,

and when he talk about the Kaman TD-31,in the same site
I found this;

Model 1242-D was Dougals Sparrow II missile.

 

[Stargazer]

Model 1242-D was Dougals Sparrow II missile.

True. According to my notes, XAAM-N-3 was the Model 1242C and the AAM-N-3 was Model 1242D.

 

[Peter]

Thanks! I've overused that list a long time ago... but they're missing A LOT of numbers I have. So here goes...

For the Santa Monica plant (first 2200 numbers of the list):

- c/n 396/404 were for the T2D-1 [BuAer A7587 to A7595]
- c/n 477 was for the XO-14 [s/n 28-194 > P-539]
- c/n 478/502 were for the PD-1 [BuAer A7979 to A8003]
- c/n 915/924 were for the O-2MC [s/n unknown]
- c/n 925/926 were for the O-2M-2 [s/n unknown]
- c/n 927 was for the XT3D-1 [BuAer A8730]
- c/n 928/945 were for the P2D-1 [BuAer A8644 to A8661]
- c/n 946 was for an O-2M-2 [s/n unknown]
- c/n 1000 was for a Dolphin, designated as Navy XRD-1 [BuAer A8876]
- c/n 1049 to 1068 were for O-2MC-2 [s/n unknown]
- c/n 1127/1131 were for O-2MC-3 [s/n unknown]
- c/n 1136 was for the XFD-1 [BuAer 9223]
- c/n 1174 was for the YOA-5 [s/n 33-17]
- c/n 1235 was for the XP3D-1 [BuAer 9613]
- c/n 1236 was for the XO2D-1 [BuAer 9412]
- c/n 1262/1267 were for the RD-3 [BuAer 9528 to 9533]
- c/n 1281 was for a Dolphin [found as "T-203", no details]
- c/n 1336/1347 were for O-2MC-5 [s/n unknown]
- c/n 1379/1400 were for O-2MC-6 [s/n unknown]

- c/n 1501/1502 are still unidentified (perhaps the DF-151 flying boats, J-ANES and J-ANET)
- c/n 1522/1526 are still unidentified
- c/n 1550 is still unidentified (perhaps the XB-19?)
- c/n 1569-1579 are still unidentified
- c/n 1587 is still unidentified
- c/n 1591-1597 are still unidentified
- c/n 1602-1629 are still unidentified
- c/n 1895-1899 are still unidentified
- c/n 2150/2164 are still unidentified


For the El Segundo (ex-Northrop) plant:

- c/n 1207/1208 were for the two XSB2D-1 prototypes
- c/n 1353/1358 were for for SBD-3 [BuAer 06585 to 06590]
- c/n 1359/1360 were for the XCG-7, of which only the first one was built [s/n 41-29621]
- c/n 1361/1362 were for the XCG-8, of which only the first one was built [s/n 41-29622]
- c/n 1376/1403 were for SBD-3 [BuAer 06591 to 06618]
- c/n 1867/1875 were for SBD-4 [BuAer 06962 to 06970]
- c/n 1876/1891 were for BTD-1 [BuAer 09048 to 09062, and 04959]
- c/n 2221/2235 were for SBD-4 [BuAer 06971 to 06985]
- c/n 2237/2240 were for SBD-5 [BuAer 10808 to 10811]
- c/n 2241/2246 were for SBD-4 [BuAer 06986 to 06991]
- c/n 2627/2646 were for SBD-4 [BuAer 10637 to 10656]
- c/n 2647/2656 were for SBD-5 [BuAer 10812 to 10821]
- c/n 2657/2672 were for SBD-4 [BuAer 10657 to 10672]
- c/n 2729/2732 were for SBD-4 [BuAer 10699 to 10702]
- c/n 2733/2752 were for SBD-5 [BuAer 10822 to 10841]
- c/n 2753/2786 were for SBD-4 [BuAer 10703 to 10736]
- c/n 2787/2806 were for SBD-5 [BuAer 10842 to 10861]
- c/n 2807/2830 were for SBD-4 [BuAer 10737 to 10760]
- c/n 2831/2860 were for SBD-5 [BuAer 10862 to 10891]
- c/n 2861/2884 were for SBD-4 [BuAer 10761 to 10784]
- c/n 2885/2914 were for SBD-5 [BuAer 10892 to 10921]
- c/n 2915/2934 were for SBD-4 [BuAer 10785 to 10804]
- c/n 2935/2968 were for SBD-5 [BuAer 10922 to 10955]
- c/n 2969/2970 were for SBD-4 [BuAer 10805 and 10806]
- c/n 3266/3360 were for SBD-5 [BuAer 10956 to 11051]
- c/n 3391/3404 were for SBD-5 [BuAer 11052 to 11065]
- c/n 5561/5562 were for the XTB2D-1 prototypes [BuAer 36933 and 36934]
- c/n 6670/6672 were for the XF3D-1 prototypes [BuAer 121457 to 121459]

- c/n 1363 is still unidentified
- c/n 892 to 1912 are still unidentified
- c/n 2215/2220 are still unidentified
- c/n 2971/3235 are still unidentified
- c/n 5563 is still unidentified
- c/n 6570/6669 are still unidentified

Hello Stargazer,

thank you very much for calling me "they".
ABCDlist is a one-man thing...me.
The information in your post made quite a few things clear.
I had the serials, just could not match the c/n's.
Having said that, there is one little problem:
You state c/n 3266 - 3360 are BuAer numbers 10956 - 11051.
I'm sorry, but that is not possible: 95 c/n's and 96 numbers.
At this time I have ommited 11051 from my list and that would do the trick.
But I don't know if that is correct, when it is :
than c/n 1892/1912 would be cancelled SBD2-1 09064/09084 (some of your missing c/n's).

Also 2971/3235 could then be identified as a cancelled batch of Douglas BT2D-1/-1Q, to have been BuAer 21742/22006
Cheers,
Peter

 

[Peter]

Forgot to mention:
2215/2220 are cancelled AD-1's BuAer 09387/09392.

Cheers,
Peter

 

[Stargazer]

Hi Peter! Glad to see you on this forum. First of all, congratulations on your website, which has been (and still is) of great help, and certainly helped me made tremendous progress in the early stages of my Douglas c/n listing.

You state c/n 3266 - 3360 are BuAer numbers 10956 - 11051.
I'm sorry, but that is not possible: 95 c/n's and 96 numbers.
At this time I have ommited 11051 from my list and that would do the trick.

It would indeed... but if I'm to trust my listing, it is 10957 that was omitted, and allocated instead to an SBD-5 (c/n 1283). Now that is strange I must admit, since it would be a lone SBD-5 in the midst of an earlier SBD-3/-3A order... There is a mystery here that definitely needs solving.

 

[Peter]

It would indeed... but if I'm to trust my listing, it is 10957 that was omitted, and allocated instead to an SBD-5 (c/n 1283). Now that is strange I must admit, since it would be a lone SBD-5 in the midst of an earlier SBD-3/-3A order... There is a mystery here that definitely needs solving.

Stargazer, you're a genius!! ;D
I had BuAer 06546 twice (on c/n's 1283 AND 1314) until now.
I am going to change 1283 to BuAer 10957.
Stranger things have happened to Douglas c/n's in the 1930's and 1940's, so I'm not surprised at all.
It all fits now, thanks.

Cheers,
Peter

 

[Stargazer]

Douglas Designations: Specifications 400 to 499

Thanks to our fellow forum member Clioman, who got hold of fragments of company listings many years ago, I was able to reconstruct quite a bit of the Douglas designations. Here is what I have in the 400+ range, the most complete slice so far.

NOTES:
1°) DS = Design Specification; TS = Type Specification; GS = General Specification (the difference between these being rather unclear at this point).
2°) Designs that didn't have an company type number such as DC-4 or DB-7 were simply designated by their specification number. Hence the DS-400 specification resulted in the unbuilt "Model 400". Addition of the D- prefix (as in "D-400") was only specified in the early numbers of the list, but is probably implicit here.

 

[Steve Pace]

Very useful. Thank you Stephane. -SP

 

[Stargazer]

From the Bernard Lindenbaum Vertical Flight Research Collection:

D-791...............VTOL/STOL Tactical Transport Aircraft for the US Army (1960)
D-793...............US Army Surveillance Aircraft Study (1960)
D-828/A...........tri-service VTOL transport proposal with 4 x GE T64 (1961)
D-829/B...........VTOL transport proposal with 4 x GE T64 (1961)
1845.................Vertical Capability Transport (1954)
2217/A.............Advanced STOL Assault & Logistics Transport (1961-62)
2252.................STOL Turboprop Assault Transport (1962)

 

[nugo]

Hi All!
D-1033---Douglas/Project RAND, Preliminary Design of an Experimental World-Circling Spaceship (SM-11827), May 2,
1946.
Source I do not remember

 

[hesham]

Hi All!
D-1033---Douglas/Project RAND, Preliminary Design of an Experimental World-Circling Spaceship (SM-11827), May 2,
1946.
Source I do not remember

My dear Nugo,


nothing called D-1033,but Model-1033.

 

[nugo]

Douglas Model 2085---SOR-182/C-141 competitor proposal.
Douglas Model 2204--- military jetmaster, heavy-lift turbofan transport.

 

[hesham]

Hi,


here is the D-3304-2,D-3203-29,D-3300,D-3308-4,D-3243 and D-3233
airliners;
http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,1296.0.html

 

[Stargazer]

Following lark's suggestion, I have attempted to rework existing profiles to portray the unbuilt Douglas DS-262 (Army XB-22), which was to be a B-18A Bolo with the then brand new Wright R-2600-1 Cyclone engine.

As no existing type used the -1 variant, I took the -3 from the Douglas XB-23 Dragon instead.

This is an approximation and should therefore not be regarded as definitive!

 

[lark]

Thanks for your beautiful artwork Star..

Thanks to you , the XB-22 haves a 'face' now..

 

[Stargazer]

2728	DS-2728	SATURN S-IVB-D	stage
3035	DS-3035	DC-8-62	Four Engine Jet Transport Model (revised 27 June 1969)
3203	D-3203-29	—	airliner project
3214	D-3214	—	drawings mentioned, no details
3215	D-3215	—	drawings mentioned, no details
3233	D-3233		airliner project
3235	D-3235-2.4-7A	HSCT
3243	D-3243		airliner project
3300	D-3300	Harbinger	airliner project developed with Airbus (also as MD-330?)
3304	D-3304		airliner project
3308	D-3308-4		airliner project
3320?	(Paper 3320)	DC-9	"The DC-9 Reliability Program" (17 Mar 1965)
3478?	(Report 3478)	CX-2	Proposal (1967)
3600?	(Report 3600-1)	VS(X)	VS(X) Weapon System Program Plan
3650	DTS-3650	DC-9	Short to Medium Range Jet Transport (revised 1 May 1974)
3802	DS-3802	C-9A	Military Jet Transport for Aeromedical Evacuation (revised 1 Sep 72)
3902	DS-3902	DC-9	Medium Multi-Range Jet Transport for United States Navy (revised 1 May 1973)
3911	DS-3911	VC-9C	Medium Jet Transport for United States Air Force

Model numbers for the DC-8 and DC-9 variants, and several others can be found here:
http://www.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/a956001.pdf

 

[hesham]

Some additions;


D-124 DC-2
D-165 DC-2
D-346 YC-34 DC-2
D-386 C-49C-DO
D-390 C-51-DO
D-440 C-68-DO

 

[Maveric]

Do you have a source, my friend?

 

[hesham]

Of course my friend,


the McDonnell Douglas aircraft since 1920,first edition.


Model-1134C ; http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,5101.msg137336.html#msg137336

 

[Maveric]

Thanks, hesham!

 

[hesham]

Thank you my dear Maveric,


D-570 was navy attack aircraft,began its life as XBT2D-1 (AD-1) aircraft.

 

[Stargazer]

Some additions;


D-124 DC-2
D-165 DC-2
D-346 YC-34 DC-2
D-386 C-49C-DO
D-390 C-51-DO
D-440 C-68-DO

Once again hesham I must differ on the use of the D- prefix. Nowhere in the source you mention is that prefix used for these aircraft!

What we have is:
DC-2-124
DC-2-165
DC-2-346
etc.

I do not know of "D-" designations being assigned by Douglas before the 500 series.

 

[hesham]

OK Stargazer,


we can say D,DS or DT,all of them used before "500",and we can also say Model,
but there are a Douglas designations,and Nugo explained before the reason for
that.

 

[Stargazer]

OK Stargazer,


we can say D,DS or DT,all of them used before "500",and we can also say Model,
but there are a Douglas designations,and Nugo explained before the reason for
that.

hesham, both you and nugo know a lot of things but that doesn't mean you should invent prefixes that do not exist just to make your lists look nicer...

 

[Steve Pace]

Hi All!

D-402------DC-3-402, C-52C
D-417------Feederliner, 2 piston engine, (proposal)
D-438------DC-3A-438
D-459------XA-42, XB-42 Mixmaster
D-466------XB-43
D-477------DC-6-477
D-496------DC-6-496
D-510------DC-5-510
D-561------F3D
D-565------USN Fighter (proposal)
D-581------Blimp, lighter than airship (proposal)
D-585------USN Fighter (proposal)

to be continued

I believe D-459 (XB-42) when modified to XB-42A in Santa Monica became DS-740. -SP