Dassault Rafale NEWS ONLY

Deltafan said:
TomcatViP said:
It seems also through those last rumors (Croatia & Greece) that the French gov looks toward divesting part of the early Rafale lot (even for free) to buy some new tranches for the AdlA.

Regarding Greece, I wonder if a refit of their M2K won't be in the plan.
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Already signed (December 2019)

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Yes but that one has all to look like a minimalist upgrade. More probably a refresh. I had more in mind something more robust like the 2000-9
 
Article Reuters :

af.reuters.com

Reuters | Breaking International News & Views

Find latest news from every corner of the globe at Reuters.com, your online source for breaking international news coverage.
af.reuters.com af.reuters.com

Greece is in talks with France and other countries over arms purchases to boost its armed forces, a government official told Reuters on Tuesday (...)

“We are in talks with France, and not only with France, in order to increase our country’s defence potential,” a government official told Reuters. “Within this framework, there is a discussion which includes the purchase of aircraft.”

The official added that no final decisions had been made. Greek media reported on Monday that Athens had agreed to acquire 18 Dassault-made Rafale fighter jets from France.

“There is no agreement as written in several media. However, there are discussions on a number of subjects,” a French government source said, without providing further detail.
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I think it's dead. There is no way Greek are gonna validate a multi-billions dollars buy to a nation that led them deal with the flow of migrants, mostly unsupported. The fire in Lesbos camp will re-ignite internal debates.
 
Guess it's a good capability increase for the Greek. as Meteor can provide some BVR advantage
 
The Greek prime minister just publicly announced the agreement for the HAF to procure 18 Rafales and that some of the older un-modernized Mirage 2000s will be returned back to France as part of the deal. Rumours of the deal abounded for the past few weeks but now it's official... :D
 
Meteor will be available on F-35 as quick as they get their order complete. And F-35 is cheaper!

The only reason I see Rafale winning will be for the Exocet. But since foreign missiles (non-US) are now available with better range...

I know I know, you'll say ITAR free and other similar lullabies. But think a second: if Greeks start throwing anti-ship missiles (think at the number of casualties!) at another NATO member, you can be sure that, at this moment, ITAR free will have no meanings...

EDIT (see below):
what a complete surprise. Great thing.
 
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Seem to be confirmed, btw :

Comment la Grèce relance la France

Cette fois c'est officiel : le premier ministre grec vient de confirmer l'achat par son pays de 18 Rafale de
lemamouth.blogspot.com lemamouth.blogspot.com
Gooooogle translated :

Comment la Grèce relance la France

Cette fois c'est officiel : le premier ministre grec vient de confirmer l'achat par son pays de 18 Rafale de
translate.google.com translate.google.com
18 planes, the mix of new ones and ones taken from AdlA not specified yet.
But wait until the thing is signed...
 
TomcatViP said:
I think it's dead. There is no way Greek are gonna validate a multi-billions dollars buy to a nation that led them deal with the flow of migrants, mostly unsupported. The fire in Lesbos camp will re-ignite internal debates.
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Your information to SPF readers on France in general as well as on the Rafale and its customers in particular are still as relevant ... ;)
 
French MoD, Mme Parly got it perfectly:
“For the first time, a European country wants to acquire Rafale fighter jets. This announcement is a success for the French aeronautics industry,
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Also Dassault statement:
This announcement illustrates the strength of the partnership that has linked the Greek Air Force and Dassault Aviation for more than 45 years, and demonstrates the enduring strategic relationship between Greece and France.
Greece ordered 40 Mirage F1 from Dassault Aviation in 1974, then 40 Mirage 2000 in 1985 and finally 15 Mirage 2000-5 in the year 2000; this latest contract also includes the modernization of 10 Mirage 2000 to the 2000-5 standard with a large contribution from Greek industry.
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www.dassault-aviation.com

Greece and the Rafale - Press kits

Saint-Cloud, France, September 12, 2020 – Greece announced today its intention to acquire 18 Rafales to equip its air force. © Dassault Aviation - C. Cosmao
www.dassault-aviation.com www.dassault-aviation.com
 
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@Archibald : they kept the old ones for the Exocet. The 2000-5 can't fire them. Either that's the part the Greek industry will play, being allowed to fit them on the 2K-5, or the 18 Rafale can be seen as taking over the maritime strike role from the 16 old Mirages.
 
Archibald said:
I checked status of the Greek Mirage fleet. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hellenic_Air_Force

Of the 40 Mirage sold in 1985-88, seems 16 remained at 1980's level and 24 were modernized to 2000's tech level. I bet you, they will keep the modernized ones, and dump the antiquated, unmodernized ones to us (sigh).
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Well we need the modernised ones. :p What I've seen written is Dassault intends the old ones for resale or agressors. it would be fun to see them with Draken international...

But see the positives, Rafale just got its first European export. Now if people were more logical the Greeks would had joined the program around 1986 or in 1999 Dassault would be offering Rafale instead of Mirage 2000-5 with the same result. Better late than never...
 
TomcatViP said:
@Archibald : they kept the old ones for the Exocet. The 2000-5 can't fire them. Either that's the part the Greek industry will play, being allowed to fit them on the 2K-5, or the 18 Rafale can be seen as taking over the maritime strike role from the 16 old Mirages.
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The price tag I've seen was Dassault had asked for 1 billion euros to modernize 17 Mirage 2000EG to dash 5. Unless Dassault suddenly made o logical offer as part of the deal it is not happening at all. I mean the F-16 modernizations to block 70 cost about $13 million per pop and Dassault wanted 5 times that per aircraft without an AESA radar? Hell that's about the fly-away cost of a dozen more Rafales.

I fully expect a second squadron to come sooner or later, what I wonder is whether the current government has grown enough common sense to ask joining SCAF as a junior partner. It has already shown way more common sense than I was used to...

About industrial work back about a year ago there had appeared news that Safran was supposed to invest in Greece specifically for the construction and repair of M88. At the time it made no sense... now it does make sense.
 
TomcatViP said:
Meteor will be available on F-35 as quick as they get their order complete. And F-35 is cheaper!

The only reason I see Rafale winning will be for the Exocet. But since foreign missiles (non-US) are now available with better range...

I know I know, you'll say ITAR free and other similar lullabies. But think a second: if Greeks start throwing anti-ship missiles (think at the number of casualties!) at another NATO member, you can be sure that, at this moment, ITAR free will have no meanings...

EDIT (see below):
what a complete surprise. Great thing.
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I hope you are not under the impression we are not buying... both. Again. An F-35 buy is more or less considered to be a given. But is likely not coming before 2024-27.
 
Dassault always amazes me with their production line minimum sustaining rate for Rafale.
 
are they they only country that will operate both the F-35 and the Rafale?
 
According to a specialized links on twitter, It seems that the contract provides for 6 new and 12 used aircraft.


The @PrimeministerGR just clarified that the #HellenicAirForce will acquire 6 new and 12 second-hand Rafale !
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I am waiting for a better link in English or in French.
 
Geez... 6 new Rafales. Meanwhile, F-35 production is gearing up for 3000 airframes: 500 times more. :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:
 
www.lavoixdunord.fr

Achat d’avions Rafale par la Grèce : il s’agira de 6 neufs et 12 d’occasion

Le Premier ministre grec Kyriakos Mitsotakis a précisé dimanche que six des dix-hui...
www.lavoixdunord.fr www.lavoixdunord.fr

"These are six new devices and twelve which have been used a little," said the (Greek) prime minister, who on Saturday announced a major ten-year weapons program amid tensions with neighboring Turkey. "The first devices will arrive in Greece in 2021 and the purchase will be completed in early 2022," he said at a press conference in Thessaloniki (north), the country's second largest city. The Prime Minister did not specify the cost of this purchase of these devices which will replace the Mirage-2000, also French.
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I am scared to learn that's it's another gold for a penny deal (e.g a donation) . President Macron has proved himself to be peculiarly spectacular in his own way by giving for nothing HUNDREDS of airframe
So far, we have a total of 123 airframe "sold" for 382M€* (50% of them sold for under 82M€ in total ) in 17 months**...
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(quote from myself-sry- from December 2018)

Otherwise, it's probable that this deal (used airframe given away and replaced (?) by new order) would not have been possible without the EU recovery package... Hence, every Europeans can now claim she/he owns a bit of Rafale, making it, de-facto, the most European fighter aircraft of our time... Pronounce RafalEU. :rolleyes:

It all depends obviously on the agreed terms, but it is reasonably probable that the net balance in cost acquisition for the French Taxpayers will be a burden to carry among generations. Hence in 2040 (the due date to payback the EU support package) the future French will be hard paying (think at interest rates) a decades old fighter to protect the sky above them...
And you all well know what they fear the most!
 
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TomcatViP said:
Otherwise, it's probable that this deal (used airframe given away and replaced (?) by new order) would not have been possible without the EU recovery package... Hence, every Europeans can now claim she/he owns a bit of Rafale, making it, de-facto, the most European fighter aircraft of our time. :rolleyes:
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Since the F-35 of Poland (the country which receives the most subsidies from the European Union each year) is the most european american fighter aircraft of our time... Pronounce Poland's F-35EU ?
 
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TomcatViP said:
I am scared to learn that's it's another gold for a penny deal (e.g a donation) . President Macron has proved himself to be peculiarly spectacular in his own way by giving for nothing HUNDREDS of airframe
So far, we have a total of 123 airframe "sold" for 382M€* (50% of them sold for under 82M€ in total ) in 17 months**...
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(quote from myself-sry- from December 2018)
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I don't understand what you're talking about.
 
with Greece buying it..
it seems that most of the Mirage 2000 customers are now becoming Rafale operators.

whats missing
Brazil, Taiwan and Peru?

(although Rafale did originally win in Brazil).
What are the chances of TW and PR getting some raffies
 
TomcatViP said:
www.key.aero

The great aircraft bazaar: French donated airframes since

It's a mystery to me how French could have gave away so much aircraft at such a low cost since 2017 and the beginning of the Macron government. Here is a short
www.key.aero www.key.aero
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1-Let's wait until the price details are given for this Rafale contract


2-There is a problem with your link. I cannot read any of the "donated airframes" in your link. Anybody can ?

I understand (because of the answers) that it's about retired Mirage F1, Super Etendard, Jaguar, Mirage 2000 and helicopters that, then, were no longer in service.

The responses to your post in your link give all the answers. I like in particular the answer of Sintra :

Pretty common stuff, Draken air bought 22 F-1´s from the Spanish for almost nothing, same for their Cheetah´s, the Marine Corps bought RAF Harriers for a beer and a bit of money, etc.
https://theaviationgeekclub.com/drak...e-f1-fighters/
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-15876745
Cheers
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I let the readers judge.
 
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