DARPA/USAF Force Application and Launch from CONUS (FALCON) program

[bobbymike]

quellish - Based on the FBO description of a "hypersonic weapons delivery vehicle" combined with your indicating it will be mated to a Minotaur IV it sure sounds like this is the Air Force proposed Conventional Prompt Global Strike weapon. General Kevin Chilton (my favorite general) said the Air Force could have a prompt global strike missile ready by 2012, again sure sounds like this system!

 

[flateric]

meantime, a certain person named Imata Kabua tries to make things even worse - to deprive HTV-2 its target destination point...

 

[flateric]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8v5Nqgxbh_s&feature=channel

 

[Triton]

Computer animation of Lockheed Martin Skunk Works' hypersonic cruise vehicle for DARPA Falcon program.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bWaiWtH2CuI


DARPA computer-animated video of Lockheed Martin Skunk Work's Falcon HTV-3X hypersonic test vehicle.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tM_XTwtfSgo


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8MhtLWB0dJ8

 

[flateric]

Meet HTV-2 in person

new tests schedule as of Dec.2009

• 1st flight test on-track for 3QFY10
• 2nd flight test planned for 1QFY11
• USAF planning operational demo in 2012

 

[quellish]

HTV-2's booster and pad won't be available for it's flight until early next year. Originally SBSS (same pad, first flight of the Minotaur IV) was to launch much earlier in 2009 but is now slated for Nov/Dec. HTV-2 is to use a Minotaur IV as well.
That said, I do not have any news on the HTV-2 vehicle itself. All I could get was the scheduling story.

Minotaur IV flights have been switched around again, SBSS has been put into storage and its flight pushed back. HTV-2a may end up being the first Minotaur IV (Lite - no 3rd stage) mission, and the date I have for that is Feb-March. I'll be trying to get an update on that this week from Orbital and USAF.

 

[mz]

The Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency's Falcon Combined Cycle Engine was successfully ground tested April 9 for the first time in the Aerodynamic and Propulsion Test Unit at Arnold Engineering Development Center, Arnold Air Force Base, Tenn. (AF photo)

Here's a human for scale.

 

[quellish]

HTV-1 model:
http://www.wpafb.af.mil/shared/media/photodb/photos/061212-F-5533S-010.jpg

I've seen one photo of the flight vehicle under construction but can't find the PDF it was in

 

[flateric]

...

 

[CammNut]

Launch window for HTV-2 Mission A opens April 20 (Tuesday).

 

[CammNut]

And from a release just put out by Orbital Sciences:

"Subject to final preparations and favorable weather conditions, the mission will originate from Space Launch Complex-8 at Vandenberg Air Force Base, CA, with its first available launch window from 12:00 p.m. to 5:00 p.m. (PST) tomorrow, April 20, 2010.

For the HTV-2 mission, Orbital will fly a three-stage Minotaur IV “Lite” version of the rocket to carry out the suborbital flight trajectory. The Minotaur IV will propel the HTV-2 air vehicle into the upper atmosphere, where it will be released. The HTV-2 will then descend at hypersonic speed into the Pacific Ocean near Kwajalein Atoll in the Marshall Islands."

 

[sferrin]

I'll bet the video of that baby coming in will be cool. :'(

 

[seruriermarshal]

I'll bet the video of that baby coming in will be cool. :'(

Or they don't send a video to us .

 

[bobbymike]

A little more information from the Air Force Association:

First HTV-2 to Launch Aboard First Minotaur IV: Air Force and industry personnel are slated to launch today from Vandenberg AFB, Calif., Orbital Sciences Corp.'s first Minotaur IV—an amalgam of three decommissioned Peacekeeper ICBM stages and one built commercially by OSC—in its "Lite" configuration with only the three Peacekeeper stages to boost DARPA's new gliding air vehicle, known as HTV-2 for hypersonic test vehicle-2. Lockheed Martin designed HTV-2 for DARPA to validate technologies needed for hypersonic speeds of Mach 20 and above. DARPA expects the first HTV-2 to separate from the Minotaur in the upper atmosphere, descend into the atmosphere, and glide across the Pacific Ocean at more than 13,000 mph, reaching its impact point in the ocean north of the Kwajalein Atoll in less than 30 minutes. (Air Force Space and Missile Systems Center release; OSC product page; DARPA HTV-2 fact sheet; HTV-2 FAQ.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Anyone know the throw weight of the Minotaur IV Lite? (Peacekeeper three stages plus post boost vehicle has a throw weight of 8,800 lbs.)

 

[blackstar]

Anyone know the throw weight of the Minotaur IV Lite? (Peacekeeper three stages plus post boost vehicle has a throw weight of 8,800 lbs.)

"About Minotaur IV

The Minotaur IV space launch vehicle leverages the flight-proven heritage
of Orbital's Minotaur I, Pegasus and Taurus space launch vehicles to
provide a reliable, capable and cost-effective space launcher. Minotaur IV
utilizes three government-furnished solid rocket motors from decommissioned
Peacekeeper ICBMs and a commercial solid rocket upper stage. Minotaur IV
builds on a long heritage of launch systems with over 50 flights of each
core stage and is capable of launching payloads up to 3,800 lbs. (1,730
kgs.) to low Earth orbit."

So it's under 3,800 pounds.

 

[bobbymike]

Anyone know the throw weight of the Minotaur IV Lite? (Peacekeeper three stages plus post boost vehicle has a throw weight of 8,800 lbs.)

"About Minotaur IV

The Minotaur IV space launch vehicle leverages the flight-proven heritage
of Orbital's Minotaur I, Pegasus and Taurus space launch vehicles to
provide a reliable, capable and cost-effective space launcher. Minotaur IV
utilizes three government-furnished solid rocket motors from decommissioned
Peacekeeper ICBMs and a commercial solid rocket upper stage. Minotaur IV
builds on a long heritage of launch systems with over 50 flights of each
core stage and is capable of launching payloads up to 3,800 lbs. (1,730
kgs.) to low Earth orbit."

So it's under 3,800 pounds.

I thought launching to LEO needed much more energy than just launching a warhead on a ballistic trajectory?

 

[flateric]

HTV-2 logo and official HTV-2 image from DARPA data sheet

 

[blackstar]

I thought launching to LEO needed much more energy than just launching a warhead on a ballistic trajectory?

Yeah, that's true. But because Minotaur IV is a space launcher, not a ballistic missile, it doesn't have a "throw weight" in the traditional sense.

 

[bobbymike]

Actually most long range ICBMs can be both depending on what they are programed to do that is why the Minotaur IV Lite is launching the HTV-2 on a ballistic trajectory and why almost all current space launch systems started life as ICBMs (Atlas, Titan, Dnepr, etc)

Launch delayed (from the Air Force Association)

Launch Delays: Weather issues delayed the launches for the Minotaur IV Lite, carrying DARPA's HTV-2 hypersonic test vehicle, and USAF's X-37B orbital test vehicle. The Minotaur launch from Vandenberg AFB, Calif., was set for April 20 but late Monday officials decided to delay a day, possibly two, because of poor weather conditions, reports the Lompoc Record. Similarly poor weather forced delays in the space shuttle landing (Discovery landed April 20), so officials postponed the inaugural X-37B launch, now set for April 22, per United Launch Alliance's launch schedule.

 

[blackstar]

Actually most long range ICBMs can be both depending on what they are programed to do that is why the Minotaur IV Lite is launching the HTV-2 on a ballistic trajectory and why almost all current space launch systems started life as ICBMs (Atlas, Titan, Dnepr, etc)

We're talking past each other, Minotaur IV is a space launcher. It's payload is not traditionally measured in terms of "throw weight." It is measured in terms of mass to LEO. I'm sure there are performance curves showing how much it could toss ballistically, but they don't appear to be publicly available. And if we want to quibble some more, the current Atlas and Titan didn't start out as ICBMs. The _previous_ Atlas and Titan did.

 

[bobbymike]

blackstar - there is no disagreement from me on what you are saying. My original point was just to point out that since the Minotaur IV Lite, in this particular instance, is going to perform an "ICBM" type mission and was not launching a payload to LEO which takes more energy and therefore a comparable launch system will be able to launch less payload to LEO than it could launch on an ICBM type mission.

That was the original intent of my question trying to compare apples to apples. The Minotaur IV is a Peacekeeper missile, therefore I concluded that it probably has the same ICBM throw weight as the Peacekeeper, 8800 lbs. The fact, as you pointed out, that it only has a LEO "payload" of 3800 lbs indicates my original point that the same missile has less payload to LEO than as an ICBM.

The Minotaur IV "Lite" is a three stage (no post boost vehicle, I am assuming the HTV-2 acts as its' own PBV) Peacekeeper so I was simply curious what its' throw weight would be at only three stages. I am assuming "less than 8800 lbs" but I personally could not find the answer on the internet.

Actually we are in agreement on "LEO or ICBM" so I apologize if my post were unclear as to the question I was looking to get answered.

 

[blackstar]

Got ya. However, as JCM noted in a post over on www.nasaspaceflight.com, this flight is not flying a ballistic trajectory, so it would be difficult to determine the actual throw weight of the flight without the actual flight profile.

 

[flateric]

very nice paper (not only on HTV)
http://www.aiaa.org/documents/industry/presentations/MG_Bedke_High_Speed_Weapons.ppt

 

[quellish]

The weather in CA is being uncooperative, so do not be surprised if it is pushed back again.

 

[quellish]

Firing up any minute now.

 

[seruriermarshal]

Minotaur rocket blasts off
Story Discussion Posted: Thursday, April 22, 2010 4:10 pm | (0) Comments

Font Size: Default font size Larger font size Vandenberg Air Force Base successfully launched a Minotaur IV rocket at 4 p.m. this afternoon.

http://www.santamariatimes.com/news/local/article_a55c95fc-4e64-11df-acad-001cc4c002e0.html

 

[seruriermarshal]

A Minotaur rocket lifts off from Vandenberg Air Force base this afternoon. Bryan Walton/Staff

 

[flateric]

(c) US Air Force

http://www.vandenberg.af.mil/news/story.asp?id=123201119 (hi-res versions of photos are there, too)

First Minotaur IV Lite launches from Vandenberg

Posted 4/22/2010 Updated 4/22/2010

30th Space Wing Public Affairs

4/22/2010 - VANDENBERG AIR FORCE BASE, Calif. -- Team Vandenberg launched the first Minotaur IV Lite launch vehicle at 4 p.m. April 22 from Space Launch Complex-8 here.

The rocket launched the Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency's Falcon Hypersonic Technology Vehicle 2.

The 30th Space Wing commander, Col. David Buck, was the launch decision authority.

The Minotaur family of launch vehicles are provided via the Orbital/Suborbital Program 2 and managed by the U.S. Air Force Space and Missile Systems Center, Space Development and Test Wing's Launch Test Squadron located at Kirtland AFB, N.M.

 

[bobbymike]

So a question for the SP forum members. Does this day - the launch of HTV-2 on an ICBM - mark the beginning of the conventional prompt global strike era? Will we see this weapon deployed?

 

[Skybolt]

mark the beginning of the conventional prompt global strike era?

This milestone is as relevant as any other....

Will we see this weapon deployed?

Too early to fathom... now its cost is fairly modest. It will be interesting to see reactions worldwide (when someone understands what's really IS CPGS, now it is flying under the radar). My guess is that the next few years will see a couple of regional nuclear arms races, so the theme will be obscured in the general public awareness.

 

[sferrin]

The next question is what kind of target would warrant such an expensive JDAM (in effect)? ???

 

[bobbymike]

sferrin - one scenario I envision would be an Iranian or NORK missile on the launch pad with the recognition it will be launched against Israel (Iran), South Korea or Japan (NORK). The President asks, "Is it loaded with WMD's?", with the response, "We don't know, maybe."

Even if they could prove a nuke was mounted on such a missile I think you would still have the president more open to using a conventional ICBM than one loaded with a nuke. This is also why I think you need a family of systems including conventional Trident for threats like described above.

 

[sublight]

Yay, actual MSM coverage....

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/n/a/2010/04/23/state/n100555D08.DTL&type=newsbayarea

 

[blackstar]

sferrin - one scenario I envision would be an Iranian or NORK missile on the launch pad with the recognition it will be launched against Israel (Iran), South Korea or Japan (NORK). The President asks, "Is it loaded with WMD's?", with the response, "We don't know, maybe."

Here's a neat little experiment: Open Google Earth. Turn on the ruler function. Trace a line from Vandenberg AFB in California to the middle of Iran. Notice what countries the missile overflies. (The path is not exact, but it's close enough.)

I remain dubious of prompt global strike for several reasons and this is one of them. How well do you think the Russians will react to an ICBM heading their way, not terribly far from Moscow?

 

[sferrin]

sferrin - one scenario I envision would be an Iranian or NORK missile on the launch pad with the recognition it will be launched against Israel (Iran), South Korea or Japan (NORK). The President asks, "Is it loaded with WMD's?", with the response, "We don't know, maybe."

Here's a neat little experiment: Open Google Earth. Turn on the ruler function. Trace a line from Vandenberg AFB in California to the middle of Iran. Notice what countries the missile overflies. (The path is not exact, but it's close enough.)

I remain dubious of prompt global strike for several reasons and this is one of them. How well do you think the Russians will react to an ICBM heading their way, not terribly far from Moscow?

Vandenberg to NK or the Indian Ocean (SLBM) to Iran.

 

[flateric]

http://www.space.com/missionlaunches/new-rocket-launches-hypersonic-glider-sfn-100424.html

A new Minotaur launch vehicle derived from retired missile parts successfully blasted off from the California coast Thursday, but officials lost contact with a hypersonic glider testbed for a U.S. military quick-response global strike system.

The Minotaur 4 booster, flying in a downsized three-stage configuration, launched on a suborbital mission at 4 p.m. local time (7 p.m. EDT; 2300 GMT) from Space Launch Complex 8 at Vandenberg Air Force Base, Calif.

The three-stage version of the launcher uses retired Peacekeeper missile motors. The configuration is called the Minotaur 4 Lite. A small winged glider designed by Pentagon researchers was the payload for Thursday's launch.

The craft, called the Hypersonic Test Vehicle 2a, apparently did not complete all of its planned maneuvers to demonstrate new hypersonic flight systems.

"Preliminary review of technical data indicates the Minotaur Lite launch system successfully delivered the Falcon HTV 2 glide vehicle to the desired separation conditions," the Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency said in a statement. "The launch vehicle executed first of its kind energy management maneuvers, clamshell payload fairing release and HTV 2 deployment."

 

[sublight]

http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2010/04/pentagons-mach-20-glider-disappears-whacking-global-strike-plans/

 

[sferrin]

http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2010/04/pentagons-mach-20-glider-disappears-whacking-global-strike-plans/

I love how the tone is "well, the first launch is a bust, the program is doomed". :

 

[Skybolt]

The level of regression to childish-thinking (children excuse me) of the generalist media on everything aerospace and/or complicated amazes me.... must be something in the water.

 

[sublight]

http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2010/04/pentagons-mach-20-glider-disappears-whacking-global-strike-plans/

I love how the tone is "well, the first launch is a bust, the program is doomed". :

They totally ranted against conventionally armed ICBM's and Tridents, so you would think they would be a little more optimistic about the success of this program....