I do find it interesting that the rvv-bd export model has a listed max range of 200km and that stealthflanker's simulations show around 200km max unlofted range. So the export R-37m may lack the datalinks for communicating with other vehicles which would allow kills beyond radar horizon I am guessing. Export version can probably only talk to it's host carrier.
So, what is the smaller missile above the rendering of the K30? It has a much smaller diameter seeker. It almost looks like a MANPADs seeker/warhead with a larger booster motor, but still far smaller than that of the K30?
Since the Ukrainians managed to capture an almost intact example of the AA-13 Axehead LRAAM (Its' rocket-motor appears to failed to ignite after it was launched) and it has been handed over to missile experts in the US to examine I wonder how much this knowledge will benefit the Ukrainians when their donated F-16s go into service?
There are things about that I don’t believe in the slightest. 180 with scramjet is nonsense… 300M for “anti-aam or sam defence”???? This is just stupid. Other parts of text seem believable and/or reasonable.
Only time will tell if the said designations are correct, I personally expect 810 to be called R-37BM or R-37M2 (based on “trust me bro” words from a friend, you may disregard this)
Hi ! I 've read that comment from Aviator69. Hm ,there is indeed some right data.There is really new AAM called Product 171-1. I have several pics and we can see that wings have 'windows'. I have only one pic of that Product 180 ( designation K-77M is not correct but R-87 if famous Fighterbomber is right). Now if we look better ,or If I see well ,those are not wings but some kind of air intakes? Of course both AAM's were not real ,only mock-ups. Also I've found some info that catapult launcher is AKU-180. Product 270 /R-47 ?/ also exists and I have many pics even from 2018. Pictures were from the Moscow's manufacturer GosMKB Vympel which produces all new AAM's for the Su-57. It is very interesting that Izdeliye 270 have some parts from the AAM type R-77E / Izdeliye 190 or export version of the old Soviet R-77/Izdeliye 170 / .We can see some inscriptions wrote in english.
Product 300M ,I've read about that AAM as very small in the level of R-73/-74 and that can be attached inside underwing weapon compartment. Sorry but I have no pic of the Izdeliye 300M. Hm, for anti-AAM/SAM purpose? Then there is Product 750 or R-74M/ML and Product 760 or R-74M2. First AAM we can see on the pic in the middle ( as white-orange) ,second AAM appeared in one video where prototype of Su-57 launched that AAM from the underwing compartment during climb. Now about that Product 810 . Yes, military designation is really R-97. It is huge AAM,much bigger and heavier then actual R-37M or Product 610M as we know carried by the MiG-31BM,Su-30SM2 and Su-35S. I have some pics from GosMKB Vympel.Take a look to the diameter of the rocket engine chamber. R-97 is about 4.8m long,body diameter is about 450mm ,has eight wings and four foldable stabilisers. It is about 150kgs heavier then R-37M which has by the way launch weight of 600kgs. First test launch was achieved on July 6 2017. It is interesting that 'Time of the aerodynamic stability and controlability' is 360 sec. Source from 2018 where we can see that it is really R-97 is this : https://vk.com/@milinfolive-r-97-no...QWvf6qGqrZFd_iTPPg_aem_fc0Bk17oT3UH_hIwoTnNSA
The sequence is from the famous reportage ''Voennaya Priyemka'' or 'Military Reception' with author Aleksey Yegorov.Sequence was made in Sukhoi Su-57 simulator room. Test pilot Sergey Chernyishev made real sim combat flight and we can see that incoming aircraft was tracked from 170kms. Then he launched one R-97 towards him from the distance of 160kms. Interesting was that Su-57 flew at 4400m and target flew at only 3000m ,both subsonicaly.
Izdeliye 810. First pic ,model that shows us eight wings and four foldable stabilisers. Second drawing,shows us Izdeliye 810 attached to the catapult launcher UVKU-50U. Third and fourth pic show us rocket engine chamber only and it is really huge.We can see eight wings.
The third launcher from the top is the UVKU-50U and this missile can be mounted on it inside the fuselage weapon compartments. Photos taken in 2019 in GosMKB Vympel.
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Izdeliye 270 ( photo taken in GosMKB Vympel 2018 ).Take a look onto inscriptions: Check and Air Supply !
Izdeliye 760 ( sequence from this video:
Izdeliye 270 again, photo taken in GosMKB Vympel 2019
Izdeliye 180 ( source : https://bmpd.livejournal.com/4156525.html ).
Izdeliye 171-1, clearly visible mock-up and those ''windows''.
Izdeliye 270 again .Blue circle shows us very interesting detail.Some sources give data that it is position where mini-booster have to be inserted ?
Izdeliye 171-1 again.Photo taken in the GosMKB Vympel during visit of Moscow's mayor Sergey Sobyanin in 2019 ( 70th Anniversary of the manufacturer).
Izdeliye 270 during serial production in GosMKB Vympel.In the upper angle of the pic we can see three Izdeliye 170-1 or maybe Izdeliye 190 for export. Photo taken in 2018.
Now about that Product 810 . Yes, military designation is really R-97. It is huge AAM,much bigger and heavier then actual R-37M or Product 610M as we know carried by the MiG-31BM,Su-30SM2 and Su-35S. I have some pics from GosMKB Vympel.Take a look to the diameter of the rocket engine chamber. R-97 is about 4.8m long,
Now about that Product 810 . Yes, military designation is really R-97. It is huge AAM,much bigger and heavier then actual R-37M or Product 610M as we know carried by the MiG-31BM,Su-30SM2 and Su-35S. I have some pics from GosMKB Vympel.Take a look to the diameter of the rocket engine chamber. R-97 is about 4.8m long,body diameter is about 450mm ,has eight wings and four foldable stabilisers. It is about 150kgs heavier then R-37M which has by the way launch weight of 600kgs. First test launch was achieved on July 6 2017. It is interesting that 'Time of the aerodynamic stability and controlability' is 360 sec. Source from 2018 where we can see that it is really R-97 is this : https://vk.com/@milinfolive-r-97-no...QWvf6qGqrZFd_iTPPg_aem_fc0Bk17oT3UH_hIwoTnNSA
The model of AAM presented besides the Su-75 can be maybe K-77M as version of the R-77 (R-77-1) without those lattice stabilisers that can not be foldable.
Now about lenght,if fuselage weapon bays are really almost 5m long then there is chance to accomodate Izd 810 ? About body diameter as far as I know,tactical cruise missile Kh-69 has body diameter of 420mm. Anyway ,Izd 810 has much bigger body diameter in comparison with Izd 610M ,am I right?
What if Izd 810 is same diameter as 610M but bit longer ? Your dimension for 810 seems way too big. Also for internal bays, you have to make allowance for airflow and the suspension itself, so the real missile that can be accommodated inside the bay is smaller than the bay's dimension.
X-69 is 400mm/40 cm so does X-58UShK, and they're all 4.2 m. Feels like it's not possible to take more than that dimension.
What if Izd 810 is same diameter as 610M but bit longer ? Your dimension for 810 seems way too big. Also for internal bays, you have to make allowance for airflow and the suspension itself, so the real missile that can be accommodated inside the bay is smaller than the bay's dimension.
X-69 is 400mm/40 cm so does X-58UShK, and they're all 4.2 m. Feels like it's not possible to take more than that dimension.
Yes, you are right,thank you for data. Kh-69 has 400mm and Kh-58UShK-TP has 380mm and with folded wings 400mm in diameter. We have that pic of Izd 810's rocket chamber and can estimate possible body diameter.Also we must keep in mind that those wings are long but very narrow as we can see( 100mm maybe ?) . I would say 380/400mm now. Hm,R-37M is by the way 4.1m long. Anyway thanks again.
Now after so many years,data and info are more available.
SR AAM for the Su-57 are Izdelie 270, Izdeliye 750 or R-74M/ML, Izd 760 or R-74M2 and Izd 300M or K-30/R-30 ? Yes, R-74M2 ( RVV-MD2) is highly modernised version of the R-74M for the close in combat. Then Izdelie 270 with unique aero and gasdynamics control surfaces. Izd 300M is not only for 'dogfight' but also for anti-AAM/SAM defence ( obviously that guy 'Av69' was right).There is one interesting article about Izd 300M with very interesting comparison details. It is Russian article from 2021 ( sorry for that it is in Russian Cyrilic) .
MR AAM ,we have that Izdeliye 171-1 ( not 170-1 ) as obviously modernised version of the Izd. 170-1/R-77-1. We can easily identify Izd 171-1 by those windows in the wings. Izd 180 is maybe the AAM presented besides Su-75 a few years ago. Izd 180PD is the AAM carried in flight by one prototype T-50/Su-57.Some Russian sources called it only Izdeliye 180.
В полной версии уже упоминавшегося видеосюжета по поводу отмечавшегося 100-летия 929-го Государственного лётно-испытательного центра Министерства обороны Российской Федерации имени В. П. Чкалова (929 ГЛИЦ), в числе прочего, продемонстрирован ряд небезынтересных материалов по истребителю пятого…
bmpd.livejournal.com
LR AAM is Izd 810 of course but it is questionable whether it is based on the R-37M/Izd 610M. Maybe it is completely new design.
All new AAM's for the Su-57 are serial produced in Moscow's factory AO GosMKB 'Vympel' after the name of I.I.Toropov.
Can 180PD mean Povishennaya Dal’nost’ (extended range) and not RAMJET? Because missile that was shown on T-50 prototype during parade looks way longer than izd. 180 near T-75?
Those are the sequences from one reportage dating back to 2015. Manufacturer is PO 'Strela' ( Arrow) in the city of Korolev.
Now some very interesting technical details .Comparison between old Soviet K-37 or Izdeliye 610 ,not R-37 'cause this AAM has never become operational and new Russian R-37M or Izdeliye 610M. Old K-37 had only RC-channel receive antenna or Radio-Correction channel ( midcourse update data-link ). RC-channel has 100kms range. New R-37M has one channel more,it is by some sources TVM-channel ( Track Via Missile) channel. Special combat mode called 'Tandem' allows that one MiG-31BM in the patrol group illuminate with its radar N007AM Zaslon-AM / search,detect,track and lock-on given targets/, while others can launch 4 or max 8 R-37M long-range AAM in the radio-silence mode.
Next detail is what should be 'missile to missile' data-link ( marked with red arrow and square ).It is used for networking between missiles in attacking group.
Can 180PD mean Povishennaya Dal’nost’ (extended range) and not RAMJET? Because missile that was shown on T-50 prototype during parade looks way longer than izd. 180 near T-75?
Hi ! PD stands for 'Pryamotochni Dvigatel' or ram-jet for sure.There was project for RVV-AE-PD from the beginning of 1990's.RVV-AE-PD was as we know version of RVV-AE with ram-jet. I'm pretty sure that AAM's under the wings of the prototype have air intakes ,not wings.
It is certain that this AAM is longer then Izd 170-1 ( 3.7m), maybe by 0.5m ( 4.2m ).
Since the Ukrainians managed to capture an almost intact example of the AA-13 Axehead LRAAM (Its' rocket-motor appears to failed to ignite after it was launched) and it has been handed over to missile experts in the US to examine I wonder how much this knowledge will benefit the Ukrainians when their donated F-16s go into service?
Hi ! On the pic below is one of the R-37M that finnished its flight on the Ukrainian field. I must correct you that there was no chance to happened as you mentioned ''Its' rocket-motor appears to failed to ignite after it was launched'' .Reason is simple ,MiG-31BM's launch their AAM's type R-37M way far from Ukrainian air space. About possible ''examination'', if that ever happened any way ,both Ukries and US specialists would be surprised.About on-board equipment ,from the multi-channel data-link on-board system ( midcourse update channel,TVM-channel,missile to missile data-link channel ) via dual-band radar seeker and radio-proximity fuse to the new strapdown INS or BINS. Some details about the new dual-band radar-seeker type 9B1103M-350 called 'Shayba' or MFBU-610M.
Dual-band radar seeker type 9B1103M-350 'Shayba' from the company 'Agat' has completely new fiber-optic gyroscopes and it works in two radar bands. Ku-band /12-18GHz frequency range/ is used for ARH-mode and X-band / 8-12GHz frequency range/ is for the SARH mode. It is interesting that both modes can be used separetly( one by one) or simultaneosly. It is very hard ,almost impossible to jamm it when both modes work simultaneously. It has new digit processing computer which has capacity of 50mil FLOPS. This seeker is more resistant on ECM then older seeker type 9B1388 in the old Soviet test AAM type K-37 /used only by MiG-31M prototypes/ . By the way, it is 3 times lighter ( 13kgs vs 39kgs ).Seeker 9B1103M-350 has very powerfull TWT and also thanks to slotted antenna with diameter of 350mm ,it can lock on incoming target with RCS in Ku-band/ARH mode of 5sqm from almost 50kms. Same target can be locked on in SARH mode working in X-band from 100kms. SARH mode of course need illumination of the targets. It can lock on target inside 120° sector. There is also dual-band proximity fuse working in radar and optical band( laser) with their transmit and receive antennas.
Active Homing Radar Head 9B-1103M-350 is designed for installation on air-to-air missiles designed to engage aircraft, helicopters (including hovercrafts), cruise and anti-location missiles. The
en.missilery.info
If this is not against the Forum rules, I will give some data about launch distance records achieved with this heavy very long-range hypersonic AAM type R-37M.On October 2022 one Ukr AF tact recce aircraft Su-24MR was hit and shot down by the R-37M which was launched from MiG-31BM.Launch distance was 217kms.Then on Dec 2023 one Ukr AF fighter MiG-29 was shot down by the R-37M launched from MiG-31BM. Launch distance was 125kms .
The MiG-31 hit the Ukrainian MiG-29 with an R-37M missile. Video shooting from the cockpit.
Since the Ukrainians got a near intact example of an AA-13 Axehead last year they (And the West) no doubt know a lot about how its' G&C electronics work including weaknesses so that they can be jammed.
Since the Ukrainians got a near intact example of an AA-13 Axehead last year they (And the West) no doubt know a lot about how its' G&C electronics work including weaknesses so that they can be jammed.
Sorry but may I ask you something .If you are a fighter pilot and SAM or AAM flies towards your fighter, will you continue to fly straight like a 'flying brick' and wait and hope that your aircraft jammers will do the job or will go to sharp evasive turns and maneuvers? Take a look on this video. I think you will understand .
Izdelie 270 is one completely new AAM .Completely new not by its design but by philosophy,so by combat tactics. It is obvious that its base is R-77 ,even has export R-77E parts but Izd 270 (R-47 ?) is much shorter. This AAM is developed for long term close in combat where its Time of aerodynamic stability and controlability or Guided flight time is 100sec. Izd 270 has multiple aero and gasdynamic control surfaces,from those famous lattice stabilisers via TVC-nozzle to the mini boosters on the sides of the body / maybe the centre of the mass/ .That boosters will can be used for sharp 180° turn immediately after launch and for the engaging of enemy fighter flying in the rear hemisphere of Su-57.Also they can be used for, if needed for multiple sharp turns .
Blue lines on the pic shows us somethnig very interesting ,astonishing....Those holes on the missile's body are for the laser proximity fuse transmit /receive antennas by the way.
Izdelie 270 is one completely new AAM .Completely new not by its design but by philosophy,so by combat tactics. It is obvious that its base is R-77 ,even has export R-77E parts but Izd 270 (R-47 ?) is much shorter. This AAM is developed for long term close in combat where its Time of aerodynamic stability and controlability or Guided flight time is 100sec. Izd 270 has multiple aero and gasdynamic control surfaces,from those famous lattice stabilisers via TVC-nozzle to the mini boosters on the sides of the body / maybe the centre of the mass/ .That boosters will can be used for sharp 180° turn immediately after launch and for the engaging of enemy fighter flying in the rear hemisphere of Su-57.Also they can be used for, if needed for multiple sharp turns .
Blue lines on the pic shows us somethnig very interesting ,astonishing....Those holes on the missile's body are for the laser proximity fuse transmit /receive antennas by the way.
Came from the multiple Russian and other sources: TG-channels,some sites and articles, some forums and GosMKB Vympel reviews etc. I've read for the first time that this AAM is designated as Izdeliye 270 in one Vympel's article.
It is interesting in that it is higher diameter (higher thrust?), but quite short. Although still not short enough to stack two of them within a 4.2 metre long weapon bay...? Makes me wonder where it is supposed to fit and what is supposed to use it?
Maybe it is to provide more acceleration or better engine performance (or a higher seeker diametre), while keeping within a weight constraint? That could explain the length... it is purely a by-product of keeping the weight down while meeting other criteria?
It is interesting in that it is higher diameter (higher thrust?), but quite short. Although still not short enough to stack two of them within a 4.2 metre long weapon bay...? Makes me wonder where it is supposed to fit and what is supposed to use it?
Maybe it is to provide more acceleration or better engine performance (or a higher seeker diametre), while keeping within a weight constraint? That could explain the length... it is purely a by-product of keeping the weight down while meeting other criteria?
FWC-fuselage weapon compartments are certainly longer than 4.2m. As mentioned before ,AAM's with those lattice stabilizers can not be carried inside of the FWC because they are not foldable.
Came from the multiple Russian and other sources: TG-channels,some sites and articles, some forums and GosMKB Vympel reviews etc. I've read for the first time that this AAM is designated as Izdeliye 270 in one Vympel's article.
I've seen Izdeliye 270 mentioned as a designation for a new missile but as a clean-sheet replacement to R-77 (170). People have speculated this missile might be 270 but I've seen no evidence this is anything but speculation.
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