Cold Warriors: The Essex Class in the Cold War

[SSgtC]

Pure Cold War idiocy, really.

Even more than usual in this case

 

[lordroel]

in this case

So this TL might become a hotter Cold War than OTL.

 

[Archibald]

That's the point indeed, it is needed for the USN to keep more Essex in service after 1975 (AFAIK).

 

[SSgtC]

So this TL might become a hotter Cold War than OTL.

That's the point indeed, it is needed for the USN to keep more Essex in service after 1975 (AFAIK).

Basically yes. Though much of what the CIA is doing is from OTL, I've started to sour relations between the West and Indonesia earlier so that Sukarno is less willing to overlook things. So it will force the Cold War to go hotter and in turn force Congress and the Navy to mandate a larger carrier force. There are a few other things that need happen as well though to keep the Essex in service past the late 70s. Part of that has already happened with the loss of Independence. There will be more to come in the other changes as well.

 

[lordroel]

That's the point indeed, it is needed for the USN to keep more Essex in service after 1975 (AFAIK).

Jumping the gun here but that would mean another upgrade after SCB-125A

 

[isayyo2]

So tentatively an SCB-125B comes with a steel deck, C-13-X catapult, boiler refresh, automatization, and general habitation improvements all wrapped up with a CV designation? I think that was the conclusion on the Alt-history forum awhile back.

I once read on another forum that Lexington was supposed to receive a steel deck sometime in the 80's to operate Hornets, take it with a grain of salt.

 

[SSgtC]

So tentatively an SCB-125B comes with a steel deck, C-13-X catapult, boiler refresh, automatization, and general habitation improvements all wrapped up with a CV designation? I think that was the conclusion on the Alt-history forum awhile back.

I once read on another forum that Lexington was supposed to receive a steel deck sometime in the 80's to operate Hornets, take it with a grain of salt.

The C13 cat is probably not possible. If you look at the overhead of Oriskany, the starboard JBD is almost up against the island. Even using the shortest version of the C13 as fitted to Charles De Gualle, I don't know if you can squeeze in an additional 36 feet forward of the island without stretching the hull. And while that's doable, I'm not so sure doing it would be any cheaper than building a new conventionally powered carrier.

 

[isayyo2]

Would there be any benefit of chopping a C-13 down to 225ft in terms of reliability, service life, or cost reduction during a big refit?

 

[SSgtC]

Would there be any benefit of chopping a C-13 down to 225ft in terms of reliability, service life, or cost reduction during a big refit?

I doubt it. Unless the C13 is lighter than the C11-1. Then there could possibly be a benefit as it reduces top weight and frees up more weight for other improvements.

 

[SSgtC]

August 1, 1957
Sulawesi, Indonesia

Major General Suharto met with Colonels Hussein and Sumal. As the representative of the Government in Jakarta, he was there to make one last ditch effort to bring the rebel officers back into the fold. He was there because he could sympathize with the rebellious Colonels nationalist views. Like them, he had no love of the Communists. But the Soviet Union was one of the only countries willing to support them in their anti-imperialist claims. Particularly in regard to West Irian and Malaya. So he was willing to work with them. A case of the enemy of my enemy, is my friend.

Now if only he could convince these men of that. His offer was straight forward. The government in Jakarta would make a greater effort to develop some of the more outlying islands like Sulawesi and Sumatra instead of concentrating so much on Java. The Officers would receive amnesty and be allowed to honorably retire with a full pension. The common soldiers under them would also be granted amnesty and would be allowed to continue with their careers with no negative repercussions. And the government would reevaluate their relationship with the Soviet Union once the West Irian situation was resolved. But if they refused, no mercy would be shown to them and the Government would order in the Army to burn them out, root and stem.

The offer by General Suharto was turned down. The rebel officers were sure of their cause and their abilities to win through to ultimate victory. They were so sure of the outcome, that they made a counter-offer. They offered to have General Suharto join them in their cause. In nearly any capacity he wished. The nascent rebellion could use a man of his skills. Either as a military commander, or as their man inside the government to inform them of how the military intended to respond them. Like General Suharto's offer to them, their offer to him was refused. Suharto would not turn his back on his government.

 

[SSgtC]

August 5, 1957
Iswahyudi Air Force Base, East Java, Indonesia

Colonel Sutyagin smiles under his oxygen mask as he takes the first of the completed MiG-15s into the air. The stick felt good in his hand as the trainer rocketed up into the sky. Perhaps the combat take-off was a bit much on what was supposed to be a check flight to make sure everything worked on the aircraft, but he just couldn't resist showing off a little bit. Leveling the MiG off at ten thousand meters, he began running down his checklist and verifying system functionality.

Two and a half hours later, Nikolai gently set the fighter down on runway 17R and taxied to the hanger. The technicians had done well. His gripe list was actually fairly short. With luck, they could make the few repairs needed in short order and they could begin training the Indonesians in proper Soviet tactics. And as the ground crew assembled more aircraft they would hopefully get better at it and take less time while making fewer errors.

 

[SSgtC]

August 7, 1957
Iswahyudi Air Force Base, East Java, Indonesia

The first and second MiG-15s launched into the still morning air of East Java. This is the second flight for the first trainer, meant only to verify that Colonel Sutyagin's gripe sheet had been cleared, while it is the first flight for the second trainer. At the controls of the second aircraft is Captain Saleh Basarah while Major Siskov was in the rear seat as both an instructor and safety pilot in case the Indonesian Captain was unable to complete the aircraft's check flight.

Captain Basarah was the first Indonesian pilot to complete the ground syllabus for the MiG-15 and had been given the honor of taking the second MiG off the ground for the first time. As Captain Basarah began running down the checklist for the newly assembled aircraft, Major Siskov quickly came to the realization that the Indonesian pilot in the front seat was a complete professional and a natural born pilot.

Unlike the day before, the gripe sheet from this flight is considerably longer. Included on the sheet is a potentially fatal flaw. The rear controls of the trainer failed during the flight. Fortunately for both Major Siskov and Captain Basarah, the front controls continued functioning while they two men executed an emergency decent and returned to base.

 

[SSgtC]

August 13, 1957
Washington, DC, USA

In a hearing before the Senate Appropriations Committee, Secretary of Defense Charles Wilson, Secretary of the Navy Thomas Gates and the Chief of Naval Operations Admiral Arleigh Burke are arguing for Congress to approve a second Enterprise class carrier following the loss of Independence in New York. The committee is not entirely opposed to the idea of ordering a second carrier, but they do present several serious reservations over ordering two ships of a brand new and unproven type at the same time. Several hours are spent showcasing the possible benefits of a two carrier buy, chief among them are the proposed reductions in prices that Newport News Shipbuilding believes they can achieve from building two carriers nearly simultaneously. The hearing concludes on a positive note though the Committee tells the three men before them that they do need to study the proposal more before approving it.

 

[SSgtC]

August 18, 1957
Washington, DC, USA

In a second hearing before the Senate Appropriations committee and with the Senate Armed Services Committee also present, Secretaries Wilson and Gates and Admiral Burke are offered a compromise. The two Senate committees will approve a two carrier buy of the first two Enterprise class if the Navy will agree to cutbacks elsewhere. In particular, the decommissioning of older ships. The unmodernized Essex class in particular.

After spending the day in discussions, and making several requests to have information sent to the Capitol from the Pentagon, an agreement is reached. The Navy will mothball two of their Essex class ships early in exchange for a second nuclear carrier. For the first time since he was informed of the fire on Independence, Admiral Burke was happy with the state of his fleet.

 

[SSgtC]

August 19, 1957
Iswahyudi Air Force Base, East Java, Indonesia

The last of the initial batch of MiG-15UTIs takes it maiden flight. After the near-fatal mishap on the 7th, Colonel Sutyagin ordered every trainer to be inspected from top to bottom by the senior Soviet technicians to ensure nothing was missed. Fortunately for both the Indonesian and Soviet technicians, no further in flight mishaps occurred. The senior technicians however did discover three further problems in two of the nearly completed aircraft that, had they taken to the sky, would have likely resulted in the loss of the aircraft.

After that particularly nasty discovery, Colonel Sutyagin ordered further training and instruction of the Indonesian maintenance personnel. He also quietly ordered his technicians to pay more attention to what the Indonesian techs were doing to try and catch problems before an aircraft was fully assembled.

 

[SSgtC]

August 19, 1957
Amsterdam, New Holland, Netherlands

322 Squadron departs Holland for West New Guinea. The squadron is being permanently transferred to the island and as such, the families of the men assigned to the squadron are traveling with them aboard the chartered liner SS Nieuw Amsterdam. The squadron's aircraft and other equipment had been loaded aboard the freighter SS Stad Maassluis for shipment. The 6,700 Gross Register Ton freighter was considerably slower than the Nieuw Amsterdam and as such, the chartered liner would arrive in New Guinea more than a week earlier than the freighter carrying the squadron's equipment. This would give the men of the squadron time to prepare for the arrival of their aircraft at their new home of Mokmer Airfield on Biak. While the Dutch government would have far preferred shipping the fighters of the squadron on their aircraft carrier Karel Doorman, she was currently in drydock receiving a comprehensive overhaul to enable her to operate fast jets.

 

[Archibald]

Hmmm, a Enterprise twin ? nice to have. Although the 8*reactors scheme was heavy and complex, with perfect hindsight we know it worked well enough that Enterprise lasted until 2013.
Having a twin will certainly help CVN-65, at least it won't be a huge "one-off" (must have cost the OTL USN an arm and a leg, or maybe not since it wasn't retired at the end of Cold War).
Down the line this will probably impact the "in between" Kennedy and America.
So CV-66 will be CVN-66 ?

Also, with Independance a floating bonfire, will its "CV-62" number be given to Kitty Hawk ?

Alternate numbering

CV-61 Ranger
CV-62 Kitty Hawk
CV-63 Constellation
CVN-64 Enterprise
CVN-65 "Enterprise-twin" or "America" (would make sense).

 

[SSgtC]

Hmmm, a Enterprise twin ? nice to have. Although the 8*reactors scheme was heavy and complex, with perfect hindsight we know it worked well enough that Enterprise lasted until 2013.
Having a twin will certainly help CVN-65, at least it won't be a huge "one-off" (must have cost the OTL USN an arm and a leg, or maybe not since it wasn't retired at the end of Cold War).
Down the line this will probably impact the "in between" Kennedy and America.
So CV-66 will be CVN-66 ?

Also, with Independance a floating bonfire, will its "CV-62" number be given to Kitty Hawk ?

Alternate numbering

CV-61 Ranger
CV-62 Kitty Hawk
CV-63 Constellation
CVN-64 Enterprise
CVN-65 "Enterprise-twin" or "America" (would make sense).

No, CVA-62 was assigned to Independence. It won't change. CVA-63&64 are still the two Kitty Hawk class. CVA(N)-65&66 will be the two Enterprise class.

And yes, this will have consequences for the Navy's shipbuilding budget. Enterprise was 50% over budget (projected cost was $300 million, actual cost was $450 million). So while it looks like the Navy is getting a bonus here, it will only look like that until Congress sees the bill.

 

[SSgtC]

August 23, 1957
Norfolk, VA, USA

USS Lake Champlain is eased into dry dock in Norfolk, VA. Her planned, then cancelled, then reauthorized SCB-125A refit is scheduled to take between twenty-four and twenty-six months. After which, she would emerge with an aluminum clad angled flight deck, enclosed hurricane bow, steam catapults and an enlarged forward elevator among other changes.

Air Task Group 182, currently serving as Lake Champlain's Air Group is disestablished concurrent with Lake Champlain's move into drydock. The squadrons that the ATG had "borrowed" are returned to the operational control of their parent Carrier Air Groups. Lake Champlain would have no need of them for the foreseeable future.

 

[SSgtC]

August 25, 1957
Port of Tanjung Perak, East Java, Indonesia

The Chinese flagged cargo ship SS Sheng Neng arrives at the Port of Tanjung Perak. In her holds she has numerous light industrial products, rice and the first six crated Shenyang F-5 fighters for the Indonesian Air Force. The fighters are the first thing offloaded onto trucks and quickly sent to Iswahyudi Airbase for assembly. Chinese and Soviet technicians are present at the airbase to train the Indonesian ground crews on how to assemble and service the new aircraft.

 

[SSgtC]

September 1, 1957
Washington, DC, USA

In an effort to reduce costs after reauthorizing Lake Champlain's SCB-125A refit, and as part of the deal negotiated with Congress to get a second Enterprise class carrier ordered, the US Navy announces that USS Leyte (CVS-32) will be decommissioned following the completion of her current deployment to the Mediterranean. Upon her return to her home port of Quonset Point, RI she will offload stores and then sail to the Brooklyn Navy Yard for her preinactivation overhaul.

Authors Note: In OTL, Leyte was not decommissioned until 1959.

 

[apparition13]

Would there be any benefit of chopping a C-13 down to 225ft in terms of reliability, service life, or cost reduction during a big refit?

I doubt it. Unless the C13 is lighter than the C11-1. Then there could possibly be a benefit as it reduces top weight and frees up more weight for other improvements.

Could one develop the requisite velocity in a shorter length with an internal combustion catapult? It was under consideration for Enterprise, so the timing could work.

 

[SSgtC]

Would there be any benefit of chopping a C-13 down to 225ft in terms of reliability, service life, or cost reduction during a big refit?

I doubt it. Unless the C13 is lighter than the C11-1. Then there could possibly be a benefit as it reduces top weight and frees up more weight for other improvements.

Could one develop the requisite velocity in a shorter length with an internal combustion catapult? It was under consideration for Enterprise, so the timing could work.

Theoretically, sure. The C14 would have been an ideal fit for the Essex class. It was lighter, it was stronger and it didn't require steam, which meant the ship could give you a continuous 31 knots of wind over the deck while conducting high tempo flight operations. That's something that not even a Nimitz can do. And the final benefit? It was backfitable to any existing steam catapult system.

Now for the bad news. They never got it working right. No matter how much they fiddled with it, they could never get the damn thing to give them a consistent end run speed. That's vital in carrier operations. You need to know, with absolute certainty, what speed you'll be going when the catapult shuttle hits the end of its run. Because that determines whether you can launch or not.

 

[Archibald]

an internal combustion catapult?

Never heard about that. How does that work ?

 

[SSgtC]

an internal combustion catapult?

Never heard about that. How does that work ?

There's an article about it on the global security website. Apparently it got pretty advanced. To the point that the system was formally designated C14 and Enterprise was actually fitted with some of the hardware needed to operate it before it was determined to be unsuitable for carrier operations and the C13 catapult was installed instead.

The gist of it is that a combustion chamber would be filled with a fuel-air mixture (the C14 used JP-5), then ignited and mixed with water to generate steam, sending the shuttle down the run. The system had a ton of advantages apparently, like massively reduced stress on the aircraft and crew during cat shots, lower weight, less complex, no steam piping coming from the boilers, no stealing steam from propulsion, etc. It was also apparently under consideration for the Ford class as well before the decision was made to go with EMALS. It was referred to as ICALS during that iteration.

But the Navy could never get it working right. It did actually launch aircraft from test sites on land, but was never installed aboard ship. The biggest issue was the shuttle end run speed kept fluctuating with identical loads on it. They could never get it to hit a consistent speed. There were also some material failures, but those were all traced back to human error, and nothing inherent with the C14 itself.

 

[lordroel]

Hmmm, a Enterprise twin ? nice to have. Although the 8*reactors scheme was heavy and complex, with perfect hindsight we know it worked well enough that Enterprise lasted until 2013.
Having a twin will certainly help CVN-65, at least it won't be a huge "one-off" (must have cost the OTL USN an arm and a leg, or maybe not since it wasn't retired at the end of Cold War).
Down the line this will probably impact the "in between" Kennedy and America.
So CV-66 will be CVN-66 ?

Also, with Independance a floating bonfire, will its "CV-62" number be given to Kitty Hawk ?

Alternate numbering

CV-61 Ranger
CV-62 Kitty Hawk
CV-63 Constellation
CVN-64 Enterprise
CVN-65 "Enterprise-twin" or "America" (would make sense).

would the second Enterprise-class not be CVN-66 as Enterprise was CVN-65 ore am I wrong.

 

[SSgtC]

Hmmm, a Enterprise twin ? nice to have. Although the 8*reactors scheme was heavy and complex, with perfect hindsight we know it worked well enough that Enterprise lasted until 2013.
Having a twin will certainly help CVN-65, at least it won't be a huge "one-off" (must have cost the OTL USN an arm and a leg, or maybe not since it wasn't retired at the end of Cold War).
Down the line this will probably impact the "in between" Kennedy and America.
So CV-66 will be CVN-66 ?

Also, with Independance a floating bonfire, will its "CV-62" number be given to Kitty Hawk ?

Alternate numbering

CV-61 Ranger
CV-62 Kitty Hawk
CV-63 Constellation
CVN-64 Enterprise
CVN-65 "Enterprise-twin" or "America" (would make sense).

would the second Enterprise-class not be CVN-66 as Enterprise was CVN-65 ore am I wrong.

It would be. CVA-62 was ordered as a Forestallclass carrier and is in the process of being scraped. So that number is unavailable. The next carrier after Enterprise will be CVA(N)-66.

 

[SSgtC]

September 5, 1957
Clark Air Base, Luzon, Philippines

Allen Pope completed his walk around of the Douglas A-20 that had just been reassembled at the large American Air Force Base. He had been recalled from his previous assignment in Vietnam and ordered to the Philippines to take part in a covert CIA operation to support the Indonesian rebels. His part in that would be flying the Havoc to attack government targets as directed by the Permesta rebels.

Unlike the other aircraft on the flight line at Clark which were all clearly identified as US Air Force aircraft, his aircraft was planted a matte black and all it's identifying markings had been obscured. This was not his first rodeo for the CIA. He knew that this was an operation that would never see the light of day if it was performed properly. He could live with that. It was also not his first introduction to combat. He had flown numerous bombing missions over Korea during his service in the Air Force. Now he would be doing the same for the CIA. Though now, his mission also included training Indonesian pilots to fly the aircraft themselves.

Strapping into the cockpit, he turned the twin engines over and let them warm up before taxing to runway 02R. Easing the throttles forward to send the light bomber hurtling down the runway in the late afternoon sun, he carefully watched his airspeed increase to the point where he could lift his aircraft's nose off the runway and take to the air. Leaving the ground behind him, Allen climbed into the sky and felt the freedom of flight once again.
Two hours later, having completed his check flight, he gently set the old bomber down on the runway and returned it to the disused hanger that the CIA had appropriated for their use. He had no complaints about the condition of the aircraft. When the time came, he would be flying this aircraft to a rebel held airfield on Sulawesi and commencing bombing missions for the CIA.

 

[SSgtC]

September 8, 1957
Port of Tanjung Perak, East Java, Indonesia

The now familiar sight of the Admiral Ushakov once again enters the busy East Javan port. Aboard are the final twelve MiG-15UTI trainers. The first dozen jets are already flying with the Indonesian Air Force, training their pilots in modern aerial combat. Also aboard is a single crated MiG-19PM. The brand new missile armed fighter is a demonstration unit intended to entice Indonesia into buying the new supersonic aircraft. Two of her missiles are also onboard the Soviet Freighter. The Kaliningrad K-5 beam riding missile was no star performer. But against bombers like the Australian Canberras and New Zealand Avengers, they were deadly. If purchased, the MiG-19 would become the first supersonic fighter in service with any country in the Southwest Pacific.

 

[SSgtC]

September 12, 1957
Iswahyudi Air Force Base, East Java, Indonesia

Four aircraft were forming a classic "string of pearls" as they lined up at two mile intervals while approaching the runway for landing. The twin engine aircraft were completing a ferry flight that had started days earlier in Irkutsk, Russia. As the aircraft touched down one after another, they quickly exited the runway and taxied to the prepared hangers where they were met by the Soviet training detachment and their Indonesian students. Servicing of the aircraft began at once. In the morning, the four planes would be officially transferred to the Indonesian Air Force.

From a control room high up in one of the hangers, President Sukarno smiled. His country now had to means to directly attack the damn Dutch on West Irian. Soon, they would have a full squadron of the aircraft he saw below him. As the lights shined down on the flight of four light bombers, Soviet and Indonesian ground crew started the process of replacing the Soviet Red Star with a red Indonesian roundel on the IL-28s that would soon constitute the striking arm of the Indonesian Air Force.

 

[GTX]

If purchased, the MiG-19 would become the first supersonic fighter in service with any country in the Southwest Pacific.

Hmmm...would such a development drive Australia to accelerate plans to replace the CAC Sabre?

 

[SSgtC]

If purchased, the MiG-19 would become the first supersonic fighter in service with any country in the Southwest Pacific.

Hmmm...would such a development drive Australia to accelerate plans to replace the CAC Sabre?

Maybe? It didn't in OTL when Indonesia was flying MiG-21s by 1962 (Australia didn't induct the Mirage III until 1965). They may start inquiring about new fighters earlier in TTL just because Indonesia is getting them slightly earlier. Also in OTL, Indonesia bought the MiG-19S, a gun armed variant. Here, they're being offered the -19PM, a missile armed version. Not sure how that will effect the RAAF.

 

[Volkodav]

If purchased, the MiG-19 would become the first supersonic fighter in service with any country in the Southwest Pacific.

Hmmm...would such a development drive Australia to accelerate plans to replace the CAC Sabre?

Maybe? It didn't in OTL when Indonesia was flying MiG-21s by 1962 (Australia didn't induct the Mirage III until 1965). They may start inquiring about new fighters earlier in TTL just because Indonesia is getting them slightly earlier. Also in OTL, Indonesia bought the MiG-19S, a gun armed variant. Here, they're being offered the -19PM, a missile armed version. Not sure how that will effect the RAAF.

Probably not much at all as the RAAF seemed to suffer the same cultural cringe as the government of the day, i.e. Australia was a predominantly agrarian society (wrong we had always been more urban than country) and was incapable of effectively operating advanced combat aircraft. It wasn't until it became an election issue that the government committed to replacing the Canberra, irrespective of what was happening in the region.

Once they finally woke up to the fact Indonesia and the Netherlands were potentially about to have a war on our doorstep the answer was conscription to increase the number of infantry and finally investigate obtaining a GPMG and an APC, cancel the conversion of Melbourne into an ASW Helo carrier and investigate modernising its airgroup. Once Suharto took over removing the northern communist threat, the conscripted infantry were committed to Vietnam in an attempt to bribe the US into being our security blanket, even though Indonesia was strategically much more important to them. The RAAF remained very much an ineffective, late 40s / early 50s force until the Mirage arrived in significant numbers in the late 60s.

 

[SSgtC]

Probably not much at all as the RAAF seemed to suffer the same cultural cringe as the government of the day, i.e. Australia was a predominantly agrarian society (wrong we had always been more urban than country) and was incapable of effectively operating advanced combat aircraft. It wasn't until it became an election issue that the government committed to replacing the Canberra, irrespective of what was happening in the region.

Once they finally woke up to the fact Indonesia and the Netherlands were potentially about to have a war on our doorstep the answer was conscription to increase the number of infantry and finally investigate obtaining a GPMG and an APC, cancel the conversion of Melbourne into an ASW Helo carrier and investigate modernising its airgroup. Once Suharto took over removing the northern communist threat, the conscripted infantry were committed to Vietnam in an attempt to bribe the US into being our security blanket, even though Indonesia was strategically much more important to them. The RAAF remained very much an ineffective, late 40s / early 50s force until the Mirage arrived in significant numbers in the late 60s.

All I'll say, is that events in the TL will be snapping Australia out of that mindset much more rapidly than in OTL. For one, Indonesia and the Netherlands are much more antagonistic towards each other than they were at this point in OTL.

Though I do find it odd that Australia took such a relaxed approach to modernising their military post WWII. I mean, Indonesia was flying MiG-21s while the RAAF was still flying Sabres.

 

[Volkodav]

Probably not much at all as the RAAF seemed to suffer the same cultural cringe as the government of the day, i.e. Australia was a predominantly agrarian society (wrong we had always been more urban than country) and was incapable of effectively operating advanced combat aircraft. It wasn't until it became an election issue that the government committed to replacing the Canberra, irrespective of what was happening in the region.

Once they finally woke up to the fact Indonesia and the Netherlands were potentially about to have a war on our doorstep the answer was conscription to increase the number of infantry and finally investigate obtaining a GPMG and an APC, cancel the conversion of Melbourne into an ASW Helo carrier and investigate modernising its airgroup. Once Suharto took over removing the northern communist threat, the conscripted infantry were committed to Vietnam in an attempt to bribe the US into being our security blanket, even though Indonesia was strategically much more important to them. The RAAF remained very much an ineffective, late 40s / early 50s force until the Mirage arrived in significant numbers in the late 60s.

All I'll say, is that events in the TL will be snapping Australia out of that mindset much more rapidly than in OTL. For one, Indonesia and the Netherlands are much more antagonistic towards each other than they were at this point in OTL.

Though I do find it odd that Australia took such a relaxed approach to modernising their military post WWII. I mean, Indonesia was flying MiG-21s while the RAAF was still flying Sabres.

There has always been a cultural cringe in Australia, i.e. we are too small, poor, whatever to go it alone so therefore need a protector. From this the concept of providing component capabilities to an allies efforts is derived, i.e. infantry and mounted infantry in WWI and naval forces totally integrated with the Rn then USN in WWI then WWII. The myth of the citizen soldier didn't help either, i.e. Australians are natural soldiers meaning an army can be created from scratch, when and as required.

This narrative suited the conservative side of politics, which saw Australia as an adjunct to the UK then the US, not as a truly independent nation. The left side of politics had a more progressive independent agenda but saw defence, at best, as a necessary evil. The only time there were any clear efforts regards defence was as a political wedge and when the glass had been broken, the alarm was ringing and neither the fire brigade or police were able to come (UK and US).

 

[SSgtC]

September 21, 1957
Iswahyudi Air Force Base, East Java, Indonesia

The first completed Shenyang F-5 leaves the runway at Iswahyudi. Unlike the Soviets who sent a large training detachment led by a full Colonel, the Chinese training detachment is significantly smaller. Also unlike the Soviet detachment, the first flight is not being made by the detachment commander, but by Senior Officer (Captain) Zhao Baotong. The Major commanding the detachment had good reason for this though. Shang wei Zhao was an ace of the Korean War with nine kills to his name, the highest scoring pilot of the Peoples Liberation Army Air Force. He had also been trained as a test pilot after the war, so was the ideal man to test a newly assembled fighter.

As Shang wei Zhao put his newly reassembled Fresco through its paces and ran down the checklist to ensure everything had been put back together satisfactorily, he looked out over the vast expanse of the Pacific Ocean from his cockpit at ten thousand meters and savored the view. Indonesia sure as hell beat Korea when it came to foreign postings. He was honored that he had been chosen to be part of the training detachment.

 

[SSgtC]

October 30, 1957
Moscow, Russian SFSR

President Sukarno meets with Soviet Premier Nikolai Bulganin in an official state visit. The two men spend the day discussing "matters of mutual interest." In reality, a preliminary agreement is reached to provide Indonesia with up to thirty-six MiG-19PM fighters and twenty-four TU-16 bombers. President Sukarno also expresses interest in acquiring Komet anti-ship missiles.

Beyond the weapons sales, Indonesia and the USSR begin to discus allowing Soviet forces to train in Indonesia in jungle and tropical warfare. A series of port visits by Red Fleet ships are also floated along with plans to have Soviet Air Force strategic bombers rotate through the country as a refueling waypoint while on their patrols. President Sukarno also agrees to allow Soviet military aircraft to use Indonesian airfields as emergency diversion fields in the event of an inflight emergency.

 

[Archibald]

Bulganin... sounds like a medecine lol. "I took bulganin for three weeks and it cured all my ailments !" ROTFL

More seriously: here come the Tu-16s. Outch: this gonna hurt later on.

 

[lordroel]

Bulganin... sounds like a medecine lol. "I took bulganin for three weeks and it cured all my ailments !" ROTFL

More seriously: here come the Tu-16s. Outch: this gonna hurt later on.

As the Dutch have no carrier in the region, the most likely target would be the US carriers.

 

[SSgtC]

Bulganin... sounds like a medecine lol. "I took bulganin for three weeks and it cured all my ailments !" ROTFL

More seriously: here come the Tu-16s. Outch: this gonna hurt later on.

Indonesia is determined to make themselves strong enough that they can't be ordered around. It's backfired a little bit, since Sukarno has been forced to cozy up to the Soviets instead of charting a truly neutral course, but he has more pressing concerns at the moment.