Chinese Space Program

Deino said:
Wow ... interesting!

https://twitter.com/x/status/1850384708926095596
View: https://twitter.com/starmil_admin/status/1850384708926095596
Click to expand...
This is apparently what they want to do, a crewed, passenger hypersonic glide vehicle, with retropropulsive landing of both stage, not unlike New Frontiers Aerospace, although maybe (very) slightly more serious.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1589561395359940608
View: https://x.com/CNSpaceflight/status/1589561395359940608


"Lingkong Tianxing [Space Transportation] expects to complete the flight verification of the aircraft's "Jindouyun" series engine in November and realize the first flight of the supersonic passenger aircraft prototype in 2027."
"Jindouyun" seems to be a liquid-fuelled engine, no?

But on a more practical side, they've launched a lot of Supersonic and hypersonic flying test beds (for CASC, NORINCO, CASIC, CAS, AVIC, Tsinghua and Xiamen Univ...) , 16 in 2022 and Probably 20+ in 2023 looking at that second announcement.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1615573402504564738
View: https://x.com/CNSpaceflight/status/1615573402504564738

https://twitter.com/x/status/1710796841556816278
View: https://x.com/CNSpaceflight/status/1710796841556816278
 
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Considering the mounting difficulties with NASA Artemis and MSR, I'm really wondering whether the chinese might want to hammer two blows the same year: 2030.
Imagine: nailing MSR and Human Lunar Return the same year. Would be one heck of soft power victory for them. It might be only a coincidence, but both missions dates seems to converge toward 2030.
 
TheKutKu said:
This is apparently what they want to do, a crewed, passenger hypersonic glide vehicle, with retropropulsive landing of both stage, not unlike New Frontiers Aerospace, although maybe (very) slightly more serious.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1589561395359940608
View: https://x.com/CNSpaceflight/status/1589561395359940608


"Lingkong Tianxing [Space Transportation] expects to complete the flight verification of the aircraft's "Jindouyun" series engine in November and realize the first flight of the supersonic passenger aircraft prototype in 2027."
"Jindouyun" seems to be a liquid-fuelled engine, no?

But on a more practical side, they've launched a lot of Supersonic and hypersonic flying test beds (for CASC, NORINCO, CASIC, CAS, AVIC, Tsinghua and Xiamen Univ...) , 16 in 2022 and Probably 20+ in 2023 looking at that second announcement.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1615573402504564738
View: https://x.com/CNSpaceflight/status/1615573402504564738

https://twitter.com/x/status/1710796841556816278
View: https://x.com/CNSpaceflight/status/1710796841556816278
Click to expand...
Why vertical landing in particular? Feels like horizontal landing would be a lot easier on the passenger. Especially for civilian passenger.

This company intrigue me, they have tested their hardware so many time yet information about them is a lot less than even other Chinese company.
 
thanix01 said:
Why vertical landing in particular? Feels like horizontal landing would be a lot easier on the passenger. Especially for civilian passenger.

This company intrigue me, they have tested their hardware so many time yet information about them is a lot less than even other Chinese company.
Click to expand...
Fundamentally it is "just" a sounding rocket company, rather large sounding rockets admitedly (at least Terrier-familly size, if not the size of the larger Black Brant), but still that, they seem to have a variety of customers, commercial, academic and military, it's not just all military hypersonic testbed.
1730056702665.png
They have a recoverable (parachute) version of Tianxing that seems roughly comparable to the Stratolaunch Talon-A high supersonic/low-hypersonic testbed, similar mass, size, and speed.
 
TheKutKu said:
Fundamentally it is "just" a sounding rocket company, rather large sounding rockets admitedly (at least Terrier-familly size, if not the size of the larger Black Brant), but still that, they seem to have a variety of customers, commercial, academic and military, it's not just all military hypersonic testbed.
View attachment 745501
They have a recoverable (parachute) version of Tianxing that seems roughly comparable to the Stratolaunch Talon-A high supersonic/low-hypersonic testbed, similar mass, size, and speed.
Click to expand...
I mean fare enough for sounding purpose. Just curious that from their video they want to do vertical landing for their civilian transport space plane.
 
Main one: Here's the crew of Shenzhou 19

Cai Xuzhe, 2nd flight after Shenzhou 14, 48 yo
GbBL0XAbsAAq0Cs.jpg
Song Lingdong, 1st flight, former PLAAF pilot, 34 yo
GbBL0YAbUAArm3Y.jpg

Song Lingdong (宋令东), male, Han ethnicity, from Cao County, Shandong Province, with a college degree. Born in August 1990, he joined the military in September 2008. In March 2013, he became a member of the Communist Party of China. Currently, he is a member of the third batch of PLA astronauts, a test pilot, and a middle-ranking Air Force cadre. He served as a company commander in a certain Air Force brigade and was evaluated as a first-level pilot. In September 2020, he was selected for the third batch of Chinese astronauts. After a comprehensive evaluation, he was selected to be part of the flight team of the Shenzhou 19 spacecraft.
Click to expand...

Wang Haoze, 1st flight, former CASC AALPT Propulsion engineer, 34 yo
GbBL0XBbQAApADn.jpg
Wang Haoze (王浩泽), female, ethnic Manchu, from Luancheng, Hebei Province, with a master's degree. Born in March 1990, she joined the military in January 2021. In December 2009, she became a member of the Communist Party of China. She is currently a member of the third batch of PLA astronauts, an astronaut and a middle-ranking army cadre. She served as a senior engineer at China Aerospace Science and Technology Corporation. In September 2020, she was selected for the third batch of Chinese astronauts. After a comprehensive assessment, she was selected to be part of the Shenzhou 19 spacecraft flight team.
Click to expand...

Couple notes:
-Song Lingdong was a Su-35 pilot in the relatively well known 6th Aviation brigade of Guangdong, the only chinese brigade to fly su-35.
1730205382370.jpeg
-Wang Haoze is known for her research on Nuclear Thermal Propulsion, she is the only woman in the 3rd astronaut group, and the 2nd chinese astronaut of civilian background (do note that they all had to join the army after the selection however)
1730205708868.jpeg

Other important news:
-The 4th astronaut corps (2022) has begun training, they are being specifically trained for lunar missions, there are 10 astronauts in the corps, 8 pilots and 2 payload specialists who are from Hong Kong and Macau respectively.
-Following a call to tender from CMSA, both SAST and CAST have been selected for the preliminary development of a crewed lunar rover, pending further selection, this rover will also be named by the public, here are the concept pictures of SAST's and CAST's rovers:
1730205878774.jpeg
1730205885226.jpeg
-Following a question about the risks of a "Starliner" scenario, CMSA assures that they can quickly launch Shenzhou 20.

-About the manned lunar program, the latest tests are the Mengzhou capsule air drop tests and the Lanyue lunar lander separation tests. The flight plan and scientific payloads for China's first manned lunar landing are "almost finalized." The schedule is "tight." More information will be shared at the upcoming 6th Manned spaceflight conference on 20 november.
-Return of Shenzhou 18 is planned for November 4.
-In 2025, the Chinese manned space program plans to implement three missions: Shenzhou 20, Shenzhou 21 and Tianzhou 9.


And finally some news on the "Chinese COTS/CRS", following selection two proposals have been selected:
-轻舟 Qingzhou of the Innovation Academy for Microsatellite of the CAS, called "a spacecraft"
-昊龙 Haolong of Chengdu Aircraft Design Institute (611 institute) of Chengdu Aerospace of AVIC, called "a space shuttle"
Concept picture of Haolong have been unveiled:
1730206428813.jpeg
1730206436122.jpeg
Needless to say Chengdu 611 has vast experience in aerospace, and especially hypersonic flight with their WZ-8 hypersonic rocket plane.

The requirement for the "chinese COTS" are
-A minimum of 1.8t and 7m^3 of cargo mass and pressurized volume to Tiangong (41-42° 340-420 km)
-Launch campaign in less than a month
-Cost of less than 120M Yuan/ton ($16.81/ton, cheaper than what NASA pays for dragon!)
Very ambitious ones

1730206635011.jpeg
 

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TheKutKu said:
Main one: Here's the crew of Shenzhou 19

Cai Xuzhe, 2nd flight after Shenzhou 14, 48 yo
View attachment 745668
Song Lingdong, 1st flight, former PLAAF pilot, 34 yo
View attachment 745667



Wang Haoze, 1st flight, former CASC AALPT Propulsion engineer, 34 yo
View attachment 745666


Couple notes:
-Song Lingdong was a Su-35 pilot in the relatively well known 6th Aviation brigade of Guangdong, the only chinese brigade to fly su-35.
View attachment 745669
-Wang Haoze is known for her research on Nuclear Thermal Propulsion, she is the only woman in the 3rd astronaut group, and the 2nd chinese astronaut of civilian background (do note that they all had to join the army after the selection however)
View attachment 745670

Other important news:
-The 4th astronaut corps (2022) has begun training, they are being specifically trained for lunar missions, there are 10 astronauts in the corps, 8 pilots and 2 payload specialists who are from Hong Kong and Macau respectively.
-Following a call to tender from CMSA, both SAST and CAST have been selected for the preliminary development of a crewed lunar rover, pending further selection, this rover will also be named by the public, here are the concept pictures of SAST's and CAST's rovers:
View attachment 745671
View attachment 745672
-Following a question about the risks of a "Starliner" scenario, CMSA assures that they can quickly launch Shenzhou 20.

-About the manned lunar program, the latest tests are the Mengzhou capsule air drop tests and the Lanyue lunar lander separation tests. The flight plan and scientific payloads for China's first manned lunar landing are "almost finalized." The schedule is "tight." More information will be shared at the upcoming 6th Manned spaceflight conference on 20 november.
-Return of Shenzhou 18 is planned for November 4.
-In 2025, the Chinese manned space program plans to implement three missions: Shenzhou 20, Shenzhou 21 and Tianzhou 9.


And finally some news on the "Chinese COTS/CRS", following selection two proposals have been selected:
-轻舟 Qingzhou of the Innovation Academy for Microsatellite of the CAS, called "a spacecraft"
-昊龙 Haolong of Chengdu Aircraft Design Institute (611 institute) of Chengdu Aerospace of AVIC, called "a space shuttle"
Concept picture of Haolong have been unveiled:
View attachment 745673
View attachment 745674
Needless to say Chengdu 611 has vast experience in aerospace, and especially hypersonic flight with their WZ-8 hypersonic rocket plane.

The requirement for the "chinese COTS" are
-A minimum of 1.8t and 47m^3 of cargo mass and pressurized volume to Tiangong (41-42° 340-420 km)
-Launch campaign in less than a month
-Cost of less than 120M Yuan/ton ($16.81/ton, cheaper than what NASA pays for dragon!)
Very ambitious ones

View attachment 745676
Click to expand...
AVIC Chengdu is also maker of Chinese fighter Aircraft (like J-20). Interesting to see them in space sector.

Wild idea but I wonder if this may mean CAC might be the one to build China military space plane in the future.
 
A rough size estimation of Haolong gives a fuselage roughly comparable to X-37B, maybe a bit shorter (length/height) and a bit fatter (width), it is likely smaller than Dream Chaser, I expect that the payload volume and mass won't be much above the required minimum of 1.8t/7m^3.

Docking directly from back (where you'd expect thrusters) and a lack of service module is intriguing, I wonder how they make all of this fit.
 
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Can anyone help clarified. Is Shanghai Microsat state institute, Private Company, or Government Commercial spinoff?

I try googling but no avail.
 
Safe return of the Shenzhou 18 crew
www.chinadaily.com.cn

All Shenzhou XVIII astronauts out of return capsule

JIUQUAN -- The three astronauts of the Shenzhou XVIII manned mission — Ye Guangfu, Li Cong and Li Guangsu — were all out of the return capsule that touched down at the Dongfeng landing site in North China's Inner Mongolia autonomous region on Monday.
www.chinadaily.com.cn www.chinadaily.com.cn


1730659761521.png
 
Archibald said:
Considering the mounting difficulties with NASA Artemis and MSR, I'm really wondering whether the chinese might want to hammer two blows the same year: 2030.
Imagine: nailing MSR and Human Lunar Return the same year. Would be one heck of soft power victory for them. It might be only a coincidence, but both missions dates seems to converge toward 2030.
Click to expand...

Since China's heavily invested in turning itself into a hegemonic power, I could definitely see that.
 
In_A_Dream said:
Since China's heavily invested in turning itself into a hegemonic power, I could definitely see that.
Click to expand...
Actually, the closest country we can compare China to is 1900s and 1910s America (in the sense that it is still an emerging industrial powerhouse which dominates everyone else combined). It's military might is still largely bound to it's geography, meaning; It is not yet at the stage of military expansion to the rest of the world that America has gone through during and after WW2 and thus can't be considered a "hegemon" acc. to the most used meaning of the word (even as an "economic hegemon" or a juggernaut since it's still a developing economy due to the sheer size of the country).

Everyone trying to follow China somewhat closely could see that -politics aside- they just want to develop and progress further (as does everyone else), and in order to do that you gotta invest in tomorrow's technologies and compete with everryone else for larger market shares. America's obviously trying to stop that by forcing China's hand on the Taiwan issue sooner rather than later before they become fully unstoppable.
 
Michel Van said:
<Irony mode on>

It's remind me of something...
...is there not a trivial company in Texas, that build something like this from steel ?

<Irony mode off>
Click to expand...

If things don’t work out for Elon post election you’ll know where he’ll go!
 
I am still holding out hope that the first stage is recovered by string catch system that they have spend a lot of resource on. That would at least make it more unique.
 
I had to have a second glance at the Long March 9 and yes it does look a lot like the SpaceX Starship. I do wonder how many engines the Long March 9 will have compared to the Starship?
 
Maxar may have pictured Chinese Space Plane. Look to be from United State Space Command presentation.
https://twitter.com/x/status/1854805161014689997
Assuming for a moment this is an on-orbit image, maybe made by MAXAR
@Maxar
(see their logo top right) apart from the SAWs on the service module, the wing shape seems wrong for the X-37BChinese X-37B ?
Click to expand...
Does match with earlier low res photo which shown outline of similiar solar panel layout and shape of it wing

China Space Plane: New Image Shows Delta-wing Design

www.leonarddavid.com www.leonarddavid.com
 
thanix01 said:
Maxar may have pictured Chinese Space Plane. Look to be from United State Space Command presentation.
https://twitter.com/x/status/1854805161014689997

Does match with earlier low res photo which shown outline of similiar solar panel layout and shape of it wing

China Space Plane: New Image Shows Delta-wing Design

www.leonarddavid.com www.leonarddavid.com
Click to expand...
I have seen people disagreeing and think it is X-37B with lens distortion, alongside all of the thing on the slide being all US asset. Unless it is the show case of US imaging capability then it may not be Chinese space plane after all.

My bad for posting this too quick.

Hopefully it is true, but finger cross.
 
cattalonX said:
View attachment 747048Long March 12B，longer than Long March 12， with 7 methane engines
Click to expand...
There are lots of speculation on this launcher (previously called XLV22/XLV3x/CZ-12R) by CASC's SAST, especially since there are good odds it'll be one the first Chinese launcher to attempt a retropropulsive landing of a booster.

The methane-oxygen engines are very likely Jiuzhou Yunjian's Longyun-70 engines, which were already tested in SAST's test flight in June.

Also i'm not quite sure if there are 7 or 9 engines on this model, various sources mentionned both, there's some uncertainty about the diameter too...

1731023337576.png
Specs of the Longyun 70
thanix01 said:
I have seen people disagreeing and think it is X-37B with lens distortion, alongside all of the thing on the slide being all US asset. Unless it is the show case of US imaging capability then it may not be Chinese space plane after all.

My bad for posting this too quick.

Hopefully it is true, but finger cross.
Click to expand...
One of the picture on the presentation is a photo of a Gaojing satellite to illustrate these capabilities; so it wouldn't be surprising to have a picture of the Chinese Shuttle.
It's definitely not X37B, wings and nose are too different. Also the protuberance on the fairing fit the wings and stabilizers, the shape can fit in the fairing, and the distance between wings and solar panel fits Schöfbänker's ground observations.

Also, it seems like it is a bit larger than the X37B, which would also explain why it's a bit heavier (8t vs ~5.5t)

Some launcher news:

93969e16ly1hvdhrvi1ovj20nc0fedui.jpg

93969e16ly1hvdhtifjl2j21hc0u0kjl.jpg

Picture of the first Pallas 1 flight vehicle undergoing final assembly, it's a partially reusable, Antares-size launch vehicle by Galactic Energy, first launch is planned for Q1 2025.

006HGq7agy1hvf9xhpspxj30zk1be4b2.jpg
006HGq7agy1hvf9xf8954j30zk0qoqb3.jpg Picture of a CZ-8 that will be the first launch from one of the Hainan commercial launch pad next month, it will carry G60 Qianfan satellites. The first CZ-8A (upgraded upper stage) will be the 2nd launch from this site, now delayed to January.
 
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First look at Long March 9 first stage catcher. Look like LM10A catcher but replaced cable with more rigid steel trusses, and pretty different from SpaceX Superheavy catcher

https://twitter.com/x/status/1855197029640630734
Looks like we got our first look at what LM9 recovery system might look like Doesn't look like they'll be doing tower recovery
Click to expand...
 

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