China's New Helicopters - Z-10 and Z-19

[otxentero]

Link with information, sure Deino will like it!

http://military.china.com/bbs2/11053806/20130618/17896688.html

 

[borovik]

Just a couple of comparisons / images to the foregoing.
Magazine of Aviation - Cosmonautics

 

[hesham]

Hi,


I have a little confuse,in two sites for Wikipedia,I found two counter informations,
one is about China WZ-12 as a stealth attack helicopter project,and the other is
about Z-12 as a medium military transport helicopter,is the China use the same
number twice or something else ?.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_aircraft_of_the_People's_Liberation_Army_Air_Force


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Chinese_aircraft

 

[Deino]

The 80. serial example and the first + MMR !

 

[seruriermarshal]

seems like a WZ-10 crashed .

 

[Deino]

Yes ... :-[ via Key-Forum, but the crew survived. :

4 March 2014:
WZ-10.
PLA.

About 2 PM, crashed, at farm, Ba Yi Village, southeast of Gu Shi Town, Lin Wei District, Wei Nan City, Shaan Xi Province.

Two crew rescued.

According to witnesses, its tail rotor suddenly had a loud noise, and crashed.

http://big5.xinhuanet.com/gate/big5/news.xinhuanet.com/local/2014-03/04/c_126220046.htm
http://mil.news.sina.com.cn/2014-03-04/1617767093.html

 

[yasotay]

My (almost pure) guess is catastophic tail rotor failure. I say that because the tail section with the tail rotor is completely gone from the aircraft in the pictures and the main rotors are fully intact. Intact main rotors means that the main rotors did not fail and lop off the tail rotor. Loss of that much weight at the back of the aircraft made for a sudden forward shift in the cg of the aircraft. The aircrew did a good job just getting the aircraft to the ground without becoming a smoking hole. It appears there are decent safety features in the design as the crew survived and the main rotor system did not flex down into the cockpit.

I would not be surprised to read of a grounding of the type while they explore to see if it was a material failure. These sort of things are pretty normal for new production aircraft. One only hopes the big problems can be found without loss of life.

 

[Blitzo]

Apparently the area it crashed in has a lot of high tension cables, my guess is the rotor caught onto one.


That sounds like the most reasonable explanation for such a sudden break of the tail.

 

[yasotay]

Apparently the area it crashed in has a lot of high tension cables, my guess is the rotor caught onto one.


That sounds like the most reasonable explanation for such a sudden break of the tail.

A very real possibility

 

[Deino]

Seems indeed to be a flight into power lines, if you look closely at the strongly bent rear cablecutter (as well the front one is even missing completely).

Deino

 

[yasotay]

I would have to agree that the probability that the aircraft went through powerlines is the highest likelyhood given the photo.

 

[Grey Havoc]

http://news.yahoo.com/china-developing-attack-helicopter-stealth-abilities-052857344.html

BEIJING (Reuters) - China has begun developing a new generation of attack helicopter which will have stealth abilities and should start deliveries to the Chinese armed forces by about 2020, the official China Daily newspaper said on Friday.

The helicopter is being developed by Aviation Industry Corp of China (AVIC), one of the country's leading arms manufacturers, the state-run English-language publication said.

Its stealth capabilities will "reshape the combat patterns" of the People's Liberation Army, company chairman Lin Zuoming was quoted as saying.

"It is a trend that the ground force will become increasingly dependent on helicopters because they have better strike capability and mobility than armored vehicles, and transport supplies to frontier troops," Lin said.

The company's chief helicopter designer, Wu Ximing, said the aircraft would have "supreme maneuverability in complicated environments, outstanding survivability and joint operation ability", the report added.

It provided no other details.

President Xi Jinping has pushed to toughen and modernize the country's 2.3 million-strong armed forces as China takes a more assertive stance in the region, particularly in the South China and East China seas.

That has included developing a series of high-tech weapons, including stealth jets, aircraft carriers and emerging technology aimed at shooting down satellites.

(Reporting by Ben Blanchard; Editing by Joseph Radford)

Potentially bad news for the Z-10 program?

 

[Deino]

Potentially bad news for the Z-10 program?

Why ?? until this new type will fly or even more roll-off the production line we have surely 202x ...

 

[yasotay]

US sells Apache and Cobra, Russia sells Mi-35, Mi-28 and Ka52. So why can't China sell two attack / reconnaissance helicopters?

 

[overscan (PaulMM)]

Z-10ME at Zhuhai 2018

https://www.sinodefenceforum.com/z-10-thread.t2879/page-239

 

[overscan (PaulMM)]

More

 

[overscan (PaulMM)]

External panels are supposed to be graphene armour panels. Z-10ME also has uprated engines and modified intake and exhausts, among other changes.

 

[yasotay]

I am especially impressed with the new avionics shown with the aircraft.

It turns out that is the ammo compartment... not a bad spot actually, if you are the people putting the ammo in the aircraft.

 

[Moose]

External panels are supposed to be graphene armour panels. Z-10ME also has uprated engines and modified intake and exhausts, among other changes.

Aye, and if my grandmother had wheels, she'd be a wagon.

 

[totoro]

 

[overscan (PaulMM)]

From 2015

Chinese scientists’ new ‘super-strong foam’ could form lightweight tank and troop armour

Chinese scientists’ new ‘super-strong foam’ could form lightweight tank and troop armour

www.scmp.com

Chinese scientists have discovered a “super material” that is as light as a balloon yet as strong as metal, which could be developed by the mainland’s military into armour that protects troops and tanks without sacrificing mobility, a mainland study reports.
The foam-like material was created when tiny tubes of graphene were formed into a cellular structure that had the same stability as a diamond, said the study led by researchers at the Chinese Academy of Sciences’ Shanghai Institute of Ceramics.

Graphene, an extremely thin sheet of carbon with extraordinary properties, has attracted great interest among researchers in recent years.

It is about 207 times stronger than steel by weight and able to conduct heat and electricity with very high efficiency.

However, the new material was able to support something that was 40,000 times its own weight without bending, said the report in the latest issue of the journal, Advanced Materials.

One piece of the graphene foam withstood the impact of a blow that had a force of more than 14,500 pounds per square inch – almost as much pressure as is experienced at the deepest depth of the world’s ocean – about 10.9km – known as Challenger Deep, in the Mariana Trench, off the coast of the US island of Guam.

The Shanghai research team said their newly created material could withstand more external shocks than other previously reported graphene materials.

It could also be squashed to just 5 per cent of its original size and still return to its original shape, and remained intact after the process was repeated 1,000 times.

The properties of the new material meant one possible use could be as a cushion under the surface of bulletproof vests and on the outside of tanks to absorb the shocks from incoming projectiles, the study said.

 

[starviking]

And the research paper is available at: https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1002/adma.201502682

 

[overscan (PaulMM)]

Z-19 with mast-mounted MMW radar - high-resolution images from the 2019 China Helicopter Expo in Tianjin.

Z-19 armed recon helicopter

Chinese Harbin Z-19 light attack helicopter known as Black Whirlwind . . .

www.sinodefenceforum.com

 

[FighterJock]

Z-19 with mast-mounted MMW radar - high-resolution images from the 2019 China Helicopter Expo in Tianjin.

Z-19 armed recon helicopter

Chinese Harbin Z-19 light attack helicopter known as Black Whirlwind . . .

www.sinodefenceforum.com

View attachment 620078
View attachment 620070View attachment 620071View attachment 620072View attachment 620073View attachment 620074View attachment 620075View attachment 620076View attachment 620077

Will be interesting to see how the mast mounted milimetric wave radar compares to the Longbow radar of the Apache in terms of range and number of targets that it can detect.

 

[totoro]

Will be interesting to see how the mast mounted milimetric wave radar compares to the Longbow radar of the Apache in terms of range and number of targets that it can detect.

I don't think we'll see any figures for that sort of comparison anytime soon. Perhaps when/if some variant of the system gets promoted for export.

 

[TomcatViP]

Just to be sure, given how this thing lacks power, it has to be an aesa to have any meaningful utilitity with such small enclosure.

 

[helmutkohl]

some new Z-19 videos from chinese state media today with A2A missiles

View: https://youtu.be/omzUzhEPeGI


how much of a capability overlap is there between the 19 and 10?

 

[youROKer]

Hmm ... Stealth Z-10? The source is unknown to me.

 

[fightingirish]

IMHO just a mock-up to be displayed in the entrance area, just in front of a Chinese Government building.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1427548996394885130

View: https://twitter.com/AlexLuck9/status/1427548996394885130?s=19

 

[yasotay]

Well, ... at least the blades aren't drooping on that one.

 

[Deino]

We know this model since years, AFAIR even longer than the Z-19.

 

[helmutkohl]

basically Pakistan opts for Z-10 over Turkish helicopters due to US blocking engines

Pakistan cancels Turkish chopper deal amid US license deadlock

Pakistan has reportedly ditched a $1.5 billion deal to acquire a total of 30 attack helicopters from Turkey due to a U.S. embargo on the choppers’...

www.dailysabah.com

Reports have been suggesting for some time now that Islamabad could consider buying the Z-10ME, an upgraded version of the Chinese Z-10 helicopter, while they also suggest that the Chinese helicopter engines under-performed during the tests made by Pakistan.


Pakistan in 2018 agreed to buy 30 T129 Tactical Reconnaissance and Attack Helicopters (ATAK) made by TAI, powered by engines made by LHTEC, a joint venture of British Rolls Royce and Honeywell, a U.S. company. Foreign companies are obligated to obtain export permits for U.S. military-grade commercial sales.


Washington, though greenlighting the export of this particular aircraft to the Philippines, for example, has never approved the sale to Pakistan, with some linking it to Turkey’s acquiring the Russian-made S-400 air defense system.

 

[FighterJock]

basically Pakistan opts for Z-10 over Turkish helicopters due to US blocking engines

Pakistan cancels Turkish chopper deal amid US license deadlock

Pakistan has reportedly ditched a $1.5 billion deal to acquire a total of 30 attack helicopters from Turkey due to a U.S. embargo on the choppers’...

www.dailysabah.com

Reports have been suggesting for some time now that Islamabad could consider buying the Z-10ME, an upgraded version of the Chinese Z-10 helicopter, while they also suggest that the Chinese helicopter engines under-performed during the tests made by Pakistan.


Pakistan in 2018 agreed to buy 30 T129 Tactical Reconnaissance and Attack Helicopters (ATAK) made by TAI, powered by engines made by LHTEC, a joint venture of British Rolls Royce and Honeywell, a U.S. company. Foreign companies are obligated to obtain export permits for U.S. military-grade commercial sales.


Washington, though greenlighting the export of this particular aircraft to the Philippines, for example, has never approved the sale to Pakistan, with some linking it to Turkey’s acquiring the Russian-made S-400 air defense system.

I wonder why Turkey put engines made by LHTEC into the T129 knowing that they would be blocked from export to countries like Pakistan.

 

[Kaanere]

basically Pakistan opts for Z-10 over Turkish helicopters due to US blocking engines

Pakistan cancels Turkish chopper deal amid US license deadlock

Pakistan has reportedly ditched a $1.5 billion deal to acquire a total of 30 attack helicopters from Turkey due to a U.S. embargo on the choppers’...

www.dailysabah.com

Reports have been suggesting for some time now that Islamabad could consider buying the Z-10ME, an upgraded version of the Chinese Z-10 helicopter, while they also suggest that the Chinese helicopter engines under-performed during the tests made by Pakistan.


Pakistan in 2018 agreed to buy 30 T129 Tactical Reconnaissance and Attack Helicopters (ATAK) made by TAI, powered by engines made by LHTEC, a joint venture of British Rolls Royce and Honeywell, a U.S. company. Foreign companies are obligated to obtain export permits for U.S. military-grade commercial sales.


Washington, though greenlighting the export of this particular aircraft to the Philippines, for example, has never approved the sale to Pakistan, with some linking it to Turkey’s acquiring the Russian-made S-400 air defense system.

I wonder why Turkey put engines made by LHTEC into the T129 knowing that they would be blocked from export to countries like Pakistan.

The LHTEC T800 engines were already part of the Agusta A-129 International project years before it was developed into the TAI T129.

Turkey is already financing a domestic rotorshaft engine (the TEI TS1400), which could get them arround the American veto if they certify the T129 for them. Obviously, the engine will not be ready for the Pakistani order.

 

[KUMA]

The fire control system of Z-10 was tested on Mi-17. The Mi-17 test bed can carry 8 x TY-90 missiles.


With the help of my friends, I collected enough information to draw the following side view, and I restored the details of the real aircraft as much as possible. It is an interesting test bed, worth the effort to draw it.

KUMA

 

[FighterJock]

The fire control system of Z-10 was tested on Mi-17. The Mi-17 test bed can carry 8 x TY-90 missiles.
View attachment 687025
View attachment 687026
With the help of my friends, I collected enough information to draw the following side view, and I restored the details of the real aircraft as much as possible. It is an interesting test bed, worth the effort to draw it.
View attachment 687028
KUMA

What will happen to the Mi-17 once testing has finished? Will it enter service or go to a museum?

 

[KUMA]

The fire control system of Z-10 was tested on Mi-17. The Mi-17 test bed can carry 8 x TY-90 missiles.
View attachment 687025
View attachment 687026
With the help of my friends, I collected enough information to draw the following side view, and I restored the details of the real aircraft as much as possible. It is an interesting test bed, worth the effort to draw it.
View attachment 687028
KUMA

What will happen to the Mi-17 once testing has finished? Will it enter service or go to a museum?

It is most likely that the aircraft will be restored to its original condition and continue to serve.

 

[FighterJock]

The fire control system of Z-10 was tested on Mi-17. The Mi-17 test bed can carry 8 x TY-90 missiles.
View attachment 687025
View attachment 687026
With the help of my friends, I collected enough information to draw the following side view, and I restored the details of the real aircraft as much as possible. It is an interesting test bed, worth the effort to draw it.
View attachment 687028
KUMA

What will happen to the Mi-17 once testing has finished? Will it enter service or go to a museum?

It is most likely that the aircraft will be restored to its original condition and continue to serve.

Thanks KUMA, at least it will continue to serve.

 

[Deino]

Totally missed to post the latest version, the Z-10ME

 

[yasotay]

This looks like a solid attack helicopter now. Good layout, sufficient ASE (flares) and warning receivers laid out to cover all quadrants.