Chengdu J-20 pictures, analysis and speculation Part II

[Deino]

Next round of rumours is open !!!

To admit I'm quite not convinced, but if You look who Goneless is, You will know that he's one of the better "informed" or "reliable" photographer. That does not excudes a manupulated image by someone else, but maybe .... just take a look at Airliners.net (including Y-20 and J-20 prototype, ...) ... and You will know what I mean !

Photo Search Results | Airliners.net

Deino

 

[kaiserbill]

Deino, what are we looking at here?

I notice in the images you've posted that the ventral fins on the rear are gone, the verticle stabilisers are modified, and the radome is different.

 

[Avimimus]

I think it is the same image - just with the colours inverted. I also think that the ventral stabilisers are still there in the photo.

 

[Deino]

Sorry to be so mysterious ! The image was posted yesterday at the Top.81-Forum (at least there I found it).

IMO it shows a slightly modified / photoshoped image and black&white negative photo of the third flying prototype.
There have been rumours since some weeks about that bird, which should feature some modifications like on the tail, radome, ...

Since that image was reportedly taken by Goneless, who is well known to be quite reliable there is at least a slight hope that this is indeed the third prototype. To admit I also asked myself why the contrast between fuselage and radome is so extreme and why some panel-lines are clearly visible while others not ... IMO this is indeed an image, that was heavily doctored of an unpainted prototype.

As such I think we have to wait but come on ... unveil that thing !

 

[TAKHISS]

a white J-20

 

[Sundog]

It looks more like a gray camo scheme to me, assuming it isn't photoshopped.

 

[Deino]

Finally I think we are getting closer to the real J-20 '2011' or '2003' ... come on, and if You like "just leave Your hat on" !

Deino

 

[Deino]

Come on ....

Seems as if the engines are missing ! ???

 

[Deino]

Hopefully sooooooon ....

 

[Deino]

Today reportedly the first high-speed taxi-test was done ... however IMO there are nearly no changes visible at all. Neither the tails are clipped nor the fins were moved for. As such we surely need to wait for better images but so far I'm a bit disappointed.

Deino

 

[Deino]

Here it is (at least a bit better) and there are indeed some changes:

- Intake is different,
- HUD looks different
- new canopy changed to a F-35-style inner frame
- IRST/EOTS under nose
- maybe smaller accuators under the wings

... more hopefully soon !

 

[Sundog]

It also looks like they added cooling ducts at the base of the leading edge of the vertical tails (The fixed portion).

 

[Raptor_101]

Is it just me, or is there RAM on the edges of all flight surfaces and the intakes? Something akin to the F-22's RAM.

 

[donnage99]

Yeah which makes me think that this is closer to a preproduction model stage than prototype stage

 

[Radical]

The actuator fairings are no longer at a 90 degree angle at the wing joint.

 

[Deino]

Here a nice comparison ... just click on the image !

 

[overscan (PaulMM)]

Initial impressions are it looks like several minor RCS related tweaks. Reduced size actuator housings probably indicate new technology compact actuators. Intake changes. aside from RCS tweaks, may go with new engines. ventral fins seems to have moved a little.

 

[latenlazy]

Initial impressions are it looks like several minor RCS related tweaks. Reduced size actuator housings probably indicate new technology compact actuators. Intake changes. aside from RCS tweaks, may go with new engines. ventral fins seems to have moved a little.

The curvature of the intakes probably affects its aerodynamics too.

 

[Avimimus]

Well - it looks like the ventral fins are here to stay

 

[LowObservable]

I am wondering about the actuator housings. I may be wrong but it could be that the image of the newer aircraft is from a minutely higher elevation, with the result that a little more of the actuator housing is concealed behind the lower wing surface.

 

[BDF]

Looks like there is a IRST housing on the 2011 pic as well

 

[saintkatanalegacy]

^would be funny if it resembled the NATF IRST

 

[Deino]

That made my day !!!

 

[Trident]

List of changes I've spotted so far:
- IRST under the nose
- smaller wing TE control surface actuators
- canopy strengthened with an internal frame (F-35 like)
- vertical fin tips slightly cropped (TE)
- inlet geometry modified
- small bump under the fuselage has switched sides
- tire fairing for the main landing gear seems larger
- new nose landing gear lights (square rather than round)

 

[Deino]

 

[overscan (PaulMM)]

It looks like the changes to the intake align it with the angled plane of the canard. Also nosegear door looks different.

 

[Hanse]

I have mixed feelings on this. One the one hand, if they came up with everything on their own, then kudos to them and an awesome job. One the other hand I can't help but feel a little sick inside at the complete and utter incompetence of the people doing security on US programs.

 

[lancer21]

One rumour i read (not sure how accurate but here we go) says that if no more issues are found, then they'll go ahead with building more J-20 as a pre-series batch for PLAAF based on 2011's configuration.

One of the mysteries is the engine. Imo, it must be either an AL-31FN series III (13,500kgf if not more) or perhaps an increased thrust WS-10 variant (reportedly, wall climbers say the engine sound is different). WS-15 apparently won't be ready for another 3 years at least - again according to rumours. So perhaps they'll go the same as PAK-FA, build an initial series with an available engine, then later continue building the full spec variant when the new engine is ready.

 

[Radical]

Is the dorsal airbrake still there?

 

[kcran567]

It looks like the changes to the intake align it with the angled plane of the canard. Also nosegear door looks different.

The top surface of the intake looks "drooped" or sloped and the front angled downward, rather than straight. Also do the ventral fins appear slightly larger?

 

[latenlazy]

I have mixed feelings on this. One the one hand, if they came up with everything on their own, then kudos to them and an awesome job. One the other hand I can't help but feel a little sick inside at the complete and utter incompetence of the people doing security on US programs.

Just a symptom of the times I think. Offensive cyber warfare is currently more powerful than defensive cyber warfare for everybody (we break into China's systems more frequently than is reported), no matter which country it is. We just happen to have the most valuable targets.

 

[Sundog]

I don't think the inlet redesign has anything to do with new engines, as it looks like the capture area is the same. It seems they made them wider and less tall (Reduced their aspect ratio). The inlet performance losses may have been too high with the original inlet. I remember back in the 80's when the U.S. was doing a lot of research on high aspect ratio inlets and nozzles. IIRC the results of those studies showed they had too many losses as well, when compared to aspect ratios of around one.

Edit: Also note that the slime light on the nose has moved from just under the chine near the cockpit, to a more forward and lower position on the nose. I wonder if this was due to sensor reasons, or just to move it away from the cockpit to reduce the chances of it being damaged.

 

[quellish]

Here it is (at least a bit better) and there are indeed some changes:

- Intake is different,
- HUD looks different
- new canopy changed to a F-35-style inner frame
- IRST/EOTS under nose
- maybe smaller accuators under the wings

... more hopefully soon !

Interesting radome is interesting.

 

[flanker]

It doesn't appear to be different from earlier ones? Or am i missing something.

 

[Radical]

Speaking of inlets, I'm now curious about the comparative advantages and disadvantages of the inlets of the three 5th gen fighter so far. We have the F-22 with a fixed inlet which hides the engine compressor but probably has worse pressure recovery than a variable geometry inlet. Then there's the T-50 with a complex variable geometry inlet, but with a radar blocker that may degrade pressure recovery. Then there's the DSI used by both the J-20 and F-35 that I don't know much about, but is said to be considerably less effective above Mach 2.

 

[Blitzo]

Edit: Also note that the slime light on the nose has moved from just under the chine near the cockpit, to a more forward and lower position on the nose. I wonder if this was due to sensor reasons, or just to move it away from the cockpit to reduce the chances of it being damaged.

I'm not sure if that grey band is the slime light, it looks rather wide and its different colour makes me think it might house some kind of sensor instead.
If we look at the tail, we see a blackish line in the same place where the slime light once sat. I suspect the slime lights haven't moved, but rather the new paint scheme and the sheer distance of this photo (and possibly a newer type of slime light?) creates the illusion that they are not where they were on the older planes.

 

[Sundog]

I'm not sure if that grey band is the slime light, it looks rather wide and its different colour makes me think it might house some kind of sensor instead.
If we look at the tail, we see a blackish line in the same place where the slime light once sat. I suspect the slime lights haven't moved, but rather the new paint scheme and the sheer distance of this photo (and possibly a newer type of slime light?) creates the illusion that they are not where they were on the older planes.

I went back and clicked on it, twice this time. I didn't know it was that big of an image. Having done that, I think you're right. When I scale it up it almost seems like you can kind of still see the slime light in the same place as the prototype, but it's just a bit too low of an image quality to tell.

 

[Deino]

Just from today !! Maybe just preparing maiden flight ???

 

[Deino]

This Image is said to Show how the J-20 211's nozzle are said to look like even THIS image is a PS-fake !

 

[VH]

I have mixed feelings on this. One the one hand, if they came up with everything on their own, then kudos to them and an awesome job. One the other hand I can't help but feel a little sick inside at the complete and utter incompetence of the people doing security on US programs.