Boeing F/A-18E/F Super Hornet

[Ogami musashi]

IIRC one AMA with a superhornet driver on reddit the pylon are canted for one and only one weapon that may pose problem. He was obviously very critical of that choice.

 

[NeilChapman]

Here's the story that I heard - supposedly from a Boeing employee. Who knows.

Boeing had the technology (90's) to run computer simulations for Super Hornet that had not been available when the Hornet was designed. So Boeing ran these computer simulations for the Super Hornet that told them that in a certain flight envelope there was a risk of certain types of ordinance hitting the wings/flaps. The cheapest way to eliminate the risk was to put in the weapons pylon cant we have today.

Several years later, Boeing got around to running the same computer simulations on the legacy Hornet and found the same risk existed for the older jet. So - since there has never been an instance of ordinance hitting a wing or flap on the legacy Hornet, Boeing went back to the Navy to say "hey, we think that risk we talked about is minimal, would you like us to design the wing pylon can't back out?"

The Navy decided to not spend the money. Hence the pylon cant.

 

[XaHyMaH]

When F/A–18E Super Hornet was presented to NAVY all the pylons was straight. It has two additional pylons at the wingroots to carry more payload than old Hornet. Suddenly it appears that new Super Hornet cannot use ordnance from these new hardpoints. Missiles' exhaust will be sucked into engine intake and cause a compressor stall. And bombs can hit fuselage.
The fix was simple: let's cant the pylons! Hurrah!
Yep. But now there is another problem: mid-wing pylons. Huh... Well... We'll cant them too!
So it goes.

 

[marauder2048]

http://dsca.mil/major-arms-sales/government-kuwait-fa-18ef-super-hornet-aircraft-support

WASHINGTON, Nov. 17, 2016 - The State Department has made a determination approving a possible Foreign Military Sale to the Government of Kuwait for F/A-18E/F Super Hornet Aircraft with support, equipment, and training. The estimated cost is $10.1 billion. The Defense Security Cooperation Agency delivered the required certification notifying Congress of this possible sale on November 17, 2016.

The Government of Kuwait has requested to purchase thirty-two (32) F/A-18E aircraft, with F414-GE-400 engines; eight (8) F/A-18F aircraft, with F414-GE-400 engines; eight (8) spare F414-GE-400 engines and twenty-four (24) engine modules; forty-one (41) AN/APG-79 Active Electronically Scanned Array (AESA) Radars; forty-four (44) M61A2 20mm Gun Systems; forty-five (45) AN/ALR-67(V)3 Radar Warning Receivers; two hundred and forty (240) LAU-127E/A Guided Missile Launchers; forty-five (45) AN/ALE-47 Airborne Countermeasures Dispenser Systems; twelve (12) AN/AAQ-33 SNIPER Advanced Targeting Pods; forty-eight (48) Joint Helmet Mounted Cueing Systems (JHMCS); forty-five (45) AN/ALQ-214 Radio Frequency Counter-Measures Systems; forty-five (45) AN/ALE-55 Towed Decoys; forty-eight (48) Link-16 Systems; eight (8) Conformal Fuel Tanks; and fourteen (14) AN/ASQ-228 ATFLIR Systems. Also included in the sale are ARC-210 radio (aircraft); Identification Friend or Foe (IFF) systems; AN/AVS-9 Night Vision Goggles (NVG); Launchers (LAU- 115D/A, LAU-116B/A, LAU-l 18A); Command Launch Computer (CLC) for Air to Ground Missile 88 (AGM-88); ANAV/MAGR GPS Navigation; Joint Mission Planning System (JMPS); aircraft spares; Aircraft Armament Equipment (AAE); support equipment; aircrew/maintenance training; contractor engineering technical service; logistics technical services; engineering technical services; other technical assistance; contractor logistics support; flight test services; storage and preservation; aircraft ferry; Repair of Repairable (RoR); support systems and associated logistics; training aides and devices; spares; technical data Engineering Change Proposals; avionics software support; software; technical publications; engineering and program support; U.S. Government and contractor engineering; technical and logistic support services. The estimated total program cost is $10.1 billion.

This proposed sale will contribute to the foreign policy and national security of the United States by helping to improve the security of a Major Non-NATO Ally that has been, and continues to be, an important force for political and economic progress in the Middle East. Kuwait is a strategic partner in maintaining stability in the region. The acquisition of the F/A-18E/F Super Hornet aircraft will allow for greater interoperability with U.S. forces, providing benefits for training and possible future coalition operations in support of shared regional security objectives.

The proposed sale of the F/A- l8E/F Super Hornet aircraft will improve Kuwait's capability to meet current and future warfare threats. Kuwait will use the enhanced capability to strengthen its homeland defense. The F/A-18E/F Super Hornet aircraft will supplement and eventually replace the Kuwait Air Force's aging fighter aircraft. Kuwait will have no difficulty absorbing this aircraft into its armed forces.
The proposed sale of this equipment and support will not alter the basic military balance in the region.

The prime contractors will be The Boeing Company, St. Louis, Missouri; Northrop Grumman in Los Angeles, California; Raytheon Company in El Segundo, California; and General Electric in Lynn, Massachusetts. Offsets agreements associated with this proposed sale are expected; however, specific agreements are undetermined and will be defined during negotiations between the purchaser and contractor. Kuwait requires contractors to satisfy an offset obligation equal to 35 percent of the main contract purchase price for any sale of defense articles in excess of three million Kuwait Dinar, (approximately $10 million USD).

Implementation of this proposed sale will require the assignment of contractor representatives to Kuwait on an intermittent basis over the life of the case to support delivery of the F/A-18E/F Super Hornet aircraft and provide support and equipment familiarization.

There will be no adverse impact on U.S. defense readiness as a result of this proposed sale.

This notice of a potential sale is required by law and does not mean the sale has been concluded.

All questions regarding this proposed Foreign Military Sale should be directed to the State Department's Bureau of Political Military Affairs, Office of Congressional and Public Affairs, pm-cpa@state.gov.

 

[bring_it_on]

Potentially, $30 Billion worth of fighter orders in a single day (I know long pending deals but still). Add the earlier F-15SA deal and Boeing is doing quite well by international standards in a post JSF world especially given they haven't really designed anything new. Now if only they can let us know what the heck is going on with F-15SA's that they keep stacking up without delivering.

 

[starviking]

Potentially, $30 Billion worth of fighter orders in a single day (I know long pending deals but still). Add the earlier F-15SA deal and Boeing is doing quite well by international standards in a post JSF world especially given they haven't really designed anything new. Now if only they can let us know what the heck is going on with F-15SA's that they keep stacking up without delivering.

Some US allies reminding the incoming president that they also buy American...

 

[bring_it_on]

The general consensus was that the WH was holding this back so it could have happened a lot sooner. I'm trying to tally up the total Boeing fighter exports since loosing the JSF contract. It should be above $50-60 Billion at the very least. Folks keep forgetting this when they paint a doom and gloom picture of Boeing exiting the fighter jet enterprise.

 

[marauder2048]

The general consensus was that the WH was holding this back so it could have happened a lot sooner. I'm trying to tally up the total Boeing fighter exports since loosing the JSF contract. It should be above $50-60 Billion at the very least. Folks keep forgetting this when they paint a doom and gloom picture of Boeing exiting the fighter jet enterprise.

But aside from Australia, we don't know if Saudi Arabia, Qatar and Kuwait were given the option of an F-35 acquisition.
My guess, based on the what transpired around F-15SE for the Saudis, is that they were not. Not saying that it would have
necessarily changed their acquisition decision but it's a big confound.

 

[bring_it_on]

Most certainly. My point was that there is plenty of meat on the bone out there for Boeing to keep its fighter ambitions funded into the future. Lack of JSF while a severe blow wasn't all doom and gloom for its fighter business. I mean by most standards having > $ 60 Billion in fighter-aircraft exports over 16 years on top of more than 500 domestic sales in the same period is a hell of a position to be in . I mean its tough to really claim that Boeing is at a financial disadvantage vis-a-vis a Lockheed going into the PCA or any other future fast jet program.

 

[marauder2048]

Most certainly. My point was that there is plenty of meat on the bone out there for Boeing to keep its fighter ambitions funded into the future. Lack of JSF while a severe blow wasn't all doom and gloom for its fighter business. I mean by most standards having > $ 60 Billion in fighter-aircraft exports over 16 years on top of more than 500 domestic sales in the same period is a hell of a position to be in . I mean its tough to really claim that Boeing is at a financial disadvantage vis-a-vis a Lockheed going into the PCA or any other future fast jet program.

Given the offset requirements, it's not clear to me how much net income from these FMS sales Boeing is really able to devote to IRAD.
And while Boeing's LRS-B proposal was technically superior to NG's it's not clear how much of that was Lockheed and how much of that
can be devoted to PCA. Certainly PCA sounds like it's a very large fighter aircraft compared to previous aircraft that performed
penetrating counter-air. If F-15SE or ASH had gone forward I'd be far more confident in their prospects.

 

[bring_it_on]

The SA actually has some of the smarter features from the SE. The FBW, the cockpit, and some other systems but I get your point. They aren't really short on cash given their sheer size but I was thinking more in terms of having a healthy, well funded team and retaining talent despite loosing competitions. If you're not cranking out high end systems you better have a very healthy IRAD pipeline to stay competitive.

 

[marauder2048]

The SA actually has some of the smarter features from the SE. The FBW, the cockpit, and some other systems but I get your point. They aren't really short on cash given their sheer size but I was thinking more in terms of having a healthy, well funded team and retaining talent despite loosing competitions. If you're not cranking out high end systems you better have a very healthy IRAD pipeline to stay competitive.

And some of the Kuwaiti Super Bugs will come with the conformal fuel tanks intended for ASH.
So with F-15SA and whatever is planned for F-15QA there's new stuff there to keep some of your design and manufacturing talent occupied and engaged.

 

[sferrin]

And while Boeing's LRS-B proposal was technically superior to NG's

Any details on this?

 

[NeilChapman]

And while Boeing's LRS-B proposal was technically superior to NG's

Any details on this?

Same question jumped out to me as well.

Also...

Makes absolutely no sense to me to purchase F-18's for US domestic use. Increase the production volume of F-35. It is the platform the Navy needs to settle on for the next few years. The quicker the CVW's can move to, integrate/get up to speed on this platform the better.

Also - increased production volumes will absolutely bring down the price. LRIP 9 is at ~US$100M sans engine.

 

[marauder2048]

And while Boeing's LRS-B proposal was technically superior to NG's

Any details on this?

Just my inference from this gem from the GAO protest.

 

[sferrin]

Without knowing what the subfactors are it's difficult to judge; just that Boeing checked off more boxes. If the boxes Boeing missed were, RCS, Range, Payload, and Cost, well. . .you see what I mean?

 

[NeilChapman]

http://www.stltoday.com/business/local/canada-to-negotiate-for-new-f-a--purchases/article_d26a4b1b-a724-5489-be9e-8e379715e5d9.html

So it's official.

Lord knows when the Canadians will actually receive these jets. Looks like at the line will be open at least through 2020. Good for St. Louis at least.

 

[NeilChapman]

India's dream fighter jet: Boeing says it can deliver

Boeing's plan involves setting up an Indian factory and the aerospace ecosystem to build the Block II Super Hornet.

www.rediff.com

This doesn't seem like a good idea if you want to continue to sell Super Hornets (or anything else) to Donald Trumps DoD. Heck, he's talked about a 35% tariff on a US$20k Ford for production that leaves the US. Imagine the cost (political and fiscal) for moving production of US$60M F-18's. Trump would probably threaten to cancel the replacement Air Force 1.

Ok - it's a little tongue-in-cheek. But not too much. This could have serious political ramifications for Boeing.

 

[SpudmanWP]

1st, It's a lease, not a buy

2nd, Given Trumps harsh words to "allies" who don't pay their share, I doubt Canada will get any new JSF contracts if they keep dragging this out. I would not be surprised if he tells Boeing that they are on their own in setting up the lease. Good luck selling them at the end of the term. Trump is first and foremost a businessman and he knows that Canada buying/leasing the SH instead of having an open comp (or God forbid sticking to the original deal) is just bad for America's interests.


The Official Press Release says:
Canada announces plan to replace fighter jet fleet - Canada News Centre

The Government will enter into discussions with the U.S. Government and Boeing regarding use of these jets for an interim period of time.

That screams lease, not buy.

 

[bring_it_on]

Boeing PR needs to do an Advanced Growler graphic with CFT's and the new Jammer pods.

 

[bring_it_on]

That screams lease, not buy.

https://twitter.com/LeighGiangreco/status/801436700098564096

 

[marauder2048]

That screams lease, not buy.

https://twitter.com/LeighGiangreco/status/801436700098564096

In theory, Boeing has the currency hedging chops to insulate the Canadian Peso from some of the wilder fluctations its been experiencing.

 

[NeilChapman]

That screams lease, not buy.

https://twitter.com/LeighGiangreco/status/801436700098564096

Thanks for posting! You guys find everything. Great stuff!

 

[bobbymike]

http://www.nextbigfuture.com/2016/12/national-interest-analysis-is-that.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+blogspot%2Fadvancednano+%28nextbigfuture%29&utm_content=FaceBook

 

[SpudmanWP]

That is some Grade-A BS Analysis going on there.

 

[fightingirish]

Notice the new "stealthy" IRST window on the center pod.
Source: https://twitter.com/laraseligman/status/831261666365042688

 

[sferrin]

Isn't a stealthy window on a friggin' POD a bit like the proverbial, "lipstick on a pig"?

 

[TomS]

I'd assume the flat windows aren't for stealth but just for better optical performance. They're basically relocating the IRST that was in the chin "scab" of the ASH into a fuel tank, sort of a Super Hornet equivalent to the F-15's TALON HATE pod.

 

[_Del_]

Making a very expensive drop tank, and one that may be mission critical to hold on to depending on the mission. Never really understood this. Should have stuffed it in the Fast packs.

 

[Flyaway]

Trump teases Super Hornet order

Trump teases Super Hornet order

As US President Donald Trump stood in front of Boeing's inaugural 787-10 Dreamliner in South Carolina this week, he turned his attention from the company's commercial crown jewel to tease a possible military aircraft sale.

www.flightglobal.com

 

[bring_it_on]

Boeing plans delivery of block 3 by 2020 if funded for in FY18. While it is certainly doable, in light of the recent US Navy solicitation of F-414 Enhanced upgrades, block 3 may be rolled out to the fleet in increments and what Boeing promises as part of the XT is simply a standard F-18 E with CFT's that gets upgraded incrementally to block 3 configuration at some point in the future.

 

[marauder2048]

The last thing a service struggling to maintain multiple configurations of a fighter needs is yet another configuration.

 

[Triton]

The concept is now named F/A-18XT.

The XT is the Advanced Super Hornet, or the Block III fighter jet concept for the Navy, a Boeing spokesman confirmed to Military.com.

“While Boeing demonstrated advanced Super Hornet capabilities in flight in 2013, the package of upgrades has evolved to best complement F-35, EA-18G and E-2D as they will be operating together in the air wing well into the 2040s,” Boeing said in a description of the XT/Block III aircraft.

Boeing developed the Block III jet concept to “address the strike fighter shortfall as well as to ensure the air wing has the capabilities needed to win in the 2020s and beyond,” the description said.

The new variant will feature an enhanced network capability to allow large amounts of data on and off the airplane, which would increase the ability to receive targeting information from aircraft like the F-35 Joint Strike Fighter, EA-18G Growler and the E-2D Hawkeye, according to Boeing.

Source:
https://www.dodbuzz.com/2017/02/17/trump-order-fa-18xt-super-hornets/?ESRC=dodbuzz.sm

 

[Flyaway]

If you buy more Hornets then you have to take the money from somewhere and that probably means less F-35Cs, if that's the case then that will put the unit costs of the other versions up which means you buy less of them and USAF ends up with more older airframes.

 

[bring_it_on]

The McCain plan increases the production rate for the of the F-35 A's and B's while keeping C steady and adding Super Hornets (50 or so of them iirc). This way he proposed they purchase around 90 more aircraft in the FYDP (f-35's) while the Navy also got more Super Hornets. There are definitely ways in the short term to maintain or increase F-35 build rates while also buying the Super Hornet but your concern is valid when talking of the Navy specific variant.

 

[lantinian]

Guys XT is the NEW Advanced Super Hornet/Block III, different than the 2013 Advanced Super Hornet that focused on stealth https://twitter.com/jacqklimas/status/832655110098477063

 

[bring_it_on]

Boeing’s Block III Super Hornet ‘High End’ Complement To F-35: Stackley

It’s not a “high/low mix,” Stackley told reporters yesterday. “That’s too Air Force.” (The term “high/low mix” originally referred to the Air Force’s combination of twin-engine F-15s and single-engine F-16s). In particular, he said, “we’re looking at a Block III F-18. It’s fairly high-end. It doesn’t have all the stealth characteristics of a fifth-gen fighter, all the advanced capabilities of an F-35, but it’s an extremely capable aircraft.”

 

[Colonial-Marine]

This current "Block III" or F/A-18XT or whatever you call it doesn't seem that impressive to me. No improved engines and no IRST that isn't on a drop-tank.

I'm torn between wanting Boeing to have the work so Lockheed doesn't have a monopoly on fighter production but I'm also left thinking that we have enough F/A-18s and that the F-35C will do just about everything better than it.

 

[Triton]

"Boeing, Lockheed debate F-35C capability gaps"
06 April, 2017 SOURCE: Flightglobal.com BY: Stephen Trimble Washington DC

Source:
https://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/boeing-lockheed-debate-f-35c-capability-gaps-435965/

Compared to a Lockheed Martin F-35C, a Block III Boeing F/A-18E/F Super Hornet will be able to detect and track stealth aircraft at long range by their heat emissions and carry a full load of external weapons for significantly longer distances, says Boeing programme manager Dan Gillian.

By filling these two claimed capability gaps, Boeing believes it can preserve the F/A-18E/Fs presence on aircraft carrier decks well into the 2040s and extend a once-threatened production line in St. Louis, Missouri, far into the 2020s.

Although US president Donald Trump once tweeted that he had ordered Boeing to offer a Super Hornet upgrade that would be “comparable” to the stealthy F-35C, the Chicago-based manufacturer prefers to use the term “complimentary”.

“We’ve designed the Block 3 Super Hornet to be viable in the future in the high-end fight just like the navy’s planning to use it as complimentary with F-35, [EA-18G] Growler and [Northrop Grumman E-2D,” Gillian says.

The Block III Super Hornet, like the Block II, will come equipped with IRST21, a centreline pod with an infrared telescope.

In making such claims, Gillian calls into question direct statements made by his competitor, particularly in regard to the air-to-air infrared search and track (IRST) capability of the F-35C.

Lockheed advertises the electro-optical targeting system on all F-35s is designed with air-to-air IRST modes, although it also used to track ground targets.

When asked about the F-35’s EOTS sensor, Gillian quickly replied that the system is for “medium-range air-to-ground.” He declined to comment directly about Lockheed’s claims that it can perform air-to-air tracking as well. .

As for the F-35, Lockheed vice-president for business development Jack Crisler defends the IRST capability of EOTS, though doesn’t offer specifics.

“We have an an IRST capability,” he says. “There will be some Block 4 capability added to that.”

He also questions the relevance of the Super Hornet’s range with a full load of weapons under-wing.

“If you’re loaded up with bombs like that,” he asks, “are you going to be able to go into an [area denied] environment?”

 

[VTOLicious]

Sea Air Space 2017 Online Show Coverage
Boeing Unveils F/A-18E/F Super Hornet Block III with New Capabilities

http://www.navyrecognition.com/index.php/news/naval-exhibitions/2017/sea-air-space-2017-show-daily-news/5075-sas-2017-boeing-unveils-f-a-18e-f-super-hornet-block-iii-with-new-capabilities.html