Boeing F-15EX / F-15QA and related variants

50 F-15IA (=EX) and retrofit kits for Israel:

The fighter jet sale, worth $18.82 billion, includes 50 F-15IA fighter jets — the Israeli variant of the advanced F-15EX — and kits for the Israeli Air Force’s existing F-15 aircraft, along with other equipment.

Defense Minister Yoav Gallant thanked Blinken and US Secretary of Defense Lloyd Austin for the approvals. The sales will advance “critical force buildup initiatives that assist Israel in developing and maintaining its qualitative military edge in the region,” Gallant wrote on X.
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Manuducati said:
Poland F-16 Block 52 are already equipped with F-100-229, so going for the same family of engine for their F-15EX would make a lot of sense as far as maintenance and ground crew training are concerned.
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From a logistics standpoint I think it would make sense too. Though I'd hope they get them with the improved "turkey feathers" that were tested for the F100-229 on the F-15 at some point instead of going "naked" like most PW-powered Eagles. Every bit of drag reduction is nice to have.
 
Manuducati said:
Poland F-16 Block 52 are already equipped with F-100-229, so going for the same family of engine for their F-15EX would make a lot of sense as far as maintenance and ground crew training are concerned.
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Operators have done stranger things though. South Korea ordered their first batch of Ks with the F110 despite their F-16 fleet using F100. The second batch of Ks came with F100 which must complicate things a little bit for their aircrew and training.

Despite the maintenance and logistics advantages I could still see a GE win here as they may want to remain as close to the USAF/FMS configuration as possible.
 
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Colonial-Marine said:
From a logistics standpoint I think it would make sense too. Though I'd hope they get them with the improved "turkey feathers" that were tested for the F100-229 on the F-15 at some point instead of going "naked" like most PW-powered Eagles. Every bit of drag reduction is nice to have.
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The -229 composite turkey feathers were tested and are fully capable of durable operation in the F-15 environment, and are the same as the ones on the F-16 -229s. The USAF left them off their F-15E as a cost and maintenance manhour savings, along with commonality with the F-15/-220 maintenance.

There isn’t much drag associated with leaving the turkey feathers off of the F-15 (tests said it was unmeasurable), but there are definitely some signature advantages to having them. If the Poles select the F-15EX with the -229, it would make sense to have them, and would keep commonality with their F-16 Block 52 fleet.
 
From my POV, a further order of F-35s would be more beneficial for Poland, considering they already have/will have plenty of aircraft capable of acting as missile trucks; moreover, APG-85 will be a pretty capable radar so the difference in cooling/TRM count/power supply/etc. doesn't matter that much especially when you can deploy these aircraft closer to the front.
 
snne said:
From my POV, a further order of F-35s would be more beneficial for Poland, considering they already have/will have plenty of aircraft capable of acting as missile trucks; moreover, APG-85 will be a pretty capable radar so the difference in cooling/TRM count/power supply/etc. doesn't matter that much especially when you can deploy these aircraft closer to the front.
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Are the Poles getting APG-85? I thought it was at this point in time only for the US services per Steve Trimble of AvWeek.
 
snne said:
From my POV, a further order of F-35s would be more beneficial for Poland, considering they already have/will have plenty of aircraft capable of acting as missile trucks; moreover, APG-85 will be a pretty capable radar so the difference in cooling/TRM count/power supply/etc. doesn't matter that much especially when you can deploy these aircraft closer to the front.
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Their 'trucks' (f-16 blk. 52) are much lesser trucks than even f-35 itself though.

Furthermore, truck is a theoretical construct; no real air forces fight like that (and there are essentially no missiles to truly make "forward pass" seamlessly work).

And, unlike aging F-16, F-15EX is a much more capable missile carrier.
 
The F-15EX has payload and range advantages over both F-16 and F-35, though I would not have thought that would justify adopting an entire new type of aircraft, especially when a fifth generation one was already purchased. My guess is that the F-15 fleet is being purchased to give a long range strike capability that could be used as a deterrent for Russia. AGM-158s would be the primary weapon initially. It might also be the case that the U.S. has indicated it would green light future HACM sales, and that alone would justify F-15 purchases in my eyes.
 
Josh_TN said:
The F-15EX has payload and range advantages over both F-16 and F-35, though I would not have thought that would justify adopting an entire new type of aircraft, especially when a fifth generation one was already purchased. My guess is that the F-15 fleet is being purchased to give a long range strike capability that could be used as a deterrent for Russia. AGM-158s would be the primary weapon initially. It might also be the case that the U.S. has indicated it would green light future HACM sales, and that alone would justify F-15 purchases in my eyes.
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As you say adding another type doesn't make a lot of sense if just for JASSM given it is already integrated on the F-16 and will come to F-35 in the next few years. The extra range of the EX won't make much of a difference for a 600nm ranged missile and Poland plan for 800+ JASSM!!! HACM is likely not F-16 capable but almost certainly F-35 if it ever gets integrated. HACM just seems so unlikely to me though, the US will be taking every round they can get and I can't see them giving up production slots till the middle 2030s.
 
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Josh_TN said:
The F-15EX has payload and range advantages over both F-16 and F-35, though I would not have thought that would justify adopting an entire new type of aircraft, especially when a fifth generation one was already purchased. My guess is that the F-15 fleet is being purchased to give a long range strike capability that could be used as a deterrent for Russia. AGM-158s would be the primary weapon initially. It might also be the case that the U.S. has indicated it would green light future HACM sales, and that alone would justify F-15 purchases in my eyes.
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Indeed, heavy loads Agm-158 and future oversized munitions(QA FBW integration wasn't done just for show).
Air defense/Air intercept/Air combat (def-ca) - Eagle easily outthrow f-35, carries more, and it simply has a larger radar array and a much better a2a IRST.
Backseat with huge display also helps.
Tactical strike (low altitude approach is very much alive, as Ukraine shows, and strike eagles are great at it).
Possibly - jam with NGJ pods.

Basically, a mirror to flanker fleet across the border.
Flankers can't fight over enemy ground, but they're still a decisive Russian advantage over Ukraine.
 
Ozair said:
As you say adding another type doesn't make a lot of sense if just for JASSM given it is already integrated on the F-16 and will come to F-35 in the next few years. The extra range of the EX won't make much of a difference for a 600nm ranged missile and Poland plan for 800+ JASSM!!! HACM is likely not F-16 capable but almost certainly F-35 if it ever gets integrated. HACM just seems so unlikely to me though, the US will be taking every round they can get and I can't see them giving up production slots till the middle 2030s.
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The threshold carrier for HACM is F-15. And the U.S. seems willing to sell the poles most anything since they are the central front line and the largest armored force outside Turkey. It is notable that the IBCS system is already approved for delivery there, even before the U.S. has adopted it. I think Poland can buy most anything it can afford from the U.S.
 
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TomcatViP said:
EX are probably mostly for air defense.
- 12 missiles
- Ability to fly at supersonic speed with afterburner for reasonable amount of time to relocate and engage along the front line.
- Excellent radar
- Backseater (see The-great-turkey-shoot-over-jordan-the-story-of-the-iranian-drone-and-missile-attack-against-israel-and-how-it-was-defeated thread)

And then they can do everything a Falcon can do.
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The problem with that usage is running out of AAMs in inventory. Nor is AIM-120 a cost effective way of shooting down drones. I would not imagine a primary A2A role for them.
 
Do we know Legion/Tigereye are superior to DAS? If nothing else they would be limited in scanning arc.
 
Why don't they just call the F-15QA the F-15Q? The QA suffix is non-standard and it really bugs me, every time I see QA I think Quality Assurance so F-15Quality Assurance fighter.
 
Josh_TN said:
The threshold carrier for HACM is F-15. And the U.S. seems willing to sell the poles most anything since they are the central front line and the largest armored force outside Turkey. It is notable that the IBCS system is already approved for delivery there, even before the U.S. has adopted it. I think Poland can buy most anything it can afford from the U.S.
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Sure but for F-15EX carriage HACM will almost certainly be less than 5k lbs and so that means F-35 is also capable of that same payload. HACM USAF IOC appears to be F-15E after which will be B-52, B-21 etc and will go to RAAF F/A-18F at some point but with RAAF SHs not lasting long beyond about 2030 F-35 is the obvious candidate.
 
Ozair said:
Sure but for F-15EX carriage HACM will almost certainly be less than 5k lbs and so that means F-35 is also capable of that same payload. HACM USAF IOC appears to be F-15E after which will be B-52, B-21 etc and will go to RAAF F/A-18F at some point but with RAAF SHs not lasting long beyond about 2030 F-35 is the obvious candidate.
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I responded to a post that said F-15s would not get HACM and pointed out they are the first platform slated to get HACM. What happens after that is speculation.
 
dark sidius said:
Soon with all under the plane it will never be able to go supersonic:eek::D:D:D
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The pods alone are not that draggy. It's the CFTs that kill performance. So for A/A missions, best to leave them at home.
That being said, I don't think the Tiger Eyes IRST can be carried without a targeting pod underneath it, so that's a bit of unnecessary drag if you need to carry the targeting pod in the A/A role.

Josh_TN said:
Do we know Legion/Tigereye are superior to DAS? If nothing else they would be limited in scanning arc.
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AN/AAR-57 is the equivalent system to DAS, though the MAWS in the F-15 doesn't offer the see-through capability.
The equivalent to the Legion/Tiger Eyes IRST pods would be the EOTS in IRST mode, though it's not a dedicated IRST and as such is less capable in the long range search role.

NMaude said:
Why don't they just call the F-15QA the F-15Q? The QA suffix is non-standard and it really bugs me, every time I see QA I think Quality Assurance so F-15Quality Assurance fighter.
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All operator specific suffixes are techically non standard. F-15P would have to exist before F-15Q could follow. The I in F-15I would never be used. Etc.
The A suffix is used by Boeing to denote all Advanced Eagles i.e. those with fly-by-wire...
...Except the F-15EX of course, which is an USAF designation but also non-standard. Should be F-15F of course.
 
FighterJock said:
I too really wanted the F-4G Wild Weasel to be replaced by an EF-15F/G too BlackBat242 but the USAF went for the HARM carrying F-16C instead which was a bad mistake in my view.
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Not really, F-16CJ is much better choice in term of logistic, and lower signature likely mean it harder to shotdown at extended range. Big radar is kinda pointless in SEAD/DEAD
 
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Ainen said:
Their 'trucks' (f-16 blk. 52) are much lesser trucks than even f-35 itself though.

Furthermore, truck is a theoretical construct; no real air forces fight like that (and there are essentially no missiles to truly make "forward pass" seamlessly work).

And, unlike aging F-16, F-15EX is a much more capable missile carrier.
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But PAF doesn't have much fighters to CAP, only f-35 can be good in A/A. Poland will be have 32 f-35, that is not big amount. Rest of task must take f-16 and fa-50 (A/G). F-15ex will be only double the f-16 and fa-50 capabilities.
 
Josh_TN said:
The F-15EX has payload and range advantages over both F-16 and F-35, though I would not have thought that would justify adopting an entire new type of aircraft, especially when a fifth generation one was already purchased. My guess is that the F-15 fleet is being purchased to give a long range strike capability that could be used as a deterrent for Russia. AGM-158s would be the primary weapon initially. It might also be the case that the U.S. has indicated it would green light future HACM sales, and that alone would justify F-15 purchases in my eyes.
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Poland only is considering f-15ex. It will be unknown, that will be bought. But f-15ex deosn't makes sense, because it will only duplicate the capabilities of the F-16 and FA-50.
 
TomcatViP said:
EX are probably mostly for air defense.
- 12 missiles
- Ability to fly at supersonic speed with afterburner for reasonable amount of time to relocate and engage along the front line.
- Excellent radar
- Backseater (see The-great-turkey-shoot-over-jordan-the-story-of-the-iranian-drone-and-missile-attack-against-israel-and-how-it-was-defeated thread)

And then they can do everything a Falcon can do.
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But carrying only aim-120 will be not effective like in f-35, because energy what can got from speed will not be able to provide the appropriate range againts r-37m. F-35 with stealth capabilities can get closer, and be more dangerous, than f-15ex.
 
@gigant_rejser : Of course! ;)

I was more thinking at plinking Drones and Cruise Missiles.

Note: I do believe Poland would phase out their F-16 earlier than planned if they do acquire the EX.
 
TomcatViP said:
EX are probably mostly for air defense.
- 12 missiles
- Ability to fly at supersonic speed with afterburner for reasonable amount of time to relocate and engage along the front line.
- Excellent radar
- Backseater (see The-great-turkey-shoot-over-jordan-the-story-of-the-iranian-drone-and-missile-attack-against-israel-and-how-it-was-defeated thread)

And then they can do everything a Falcon can do.
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I didn't reply to this before Tom, but here's my counter argument:

Current Polish F-16Ds and (also to a lesser degree Cs) can already do all of these tasks, especially if you adapt TMLAs and upgrade them to the V-standard. "Plinking drones and cruise missiles" is what I've meant by describing it as a missile truck, and you don't need a huge 50 year old twin engine design with the RCS of a school bus for this role if you're not trying to lob lots of cruise missiles at Russian bases. And even if that last one would be an important advantage, althogether this simply doesn't require introducing a new type of aircraft.

Final_AirToAirLoadout_SteveOtte_LowResWithChute.jpg.pc-adaptive.full_.medium.jpeg


The only advantage the Eagle II has in this scenario is it's excellent radar compared to the mediocre SABR, but the upcoming APG-85 is going to be just as good anyway and is more adaptable to network centric warfare. Combined with it's situational awareness and stealth capabilities, this is why spending that budget for more of future-proof F-35s (and also on a radar mod for F-16s) instead is way more efficient and sensible since the procurements cost of new F-15s vs more F-35s and an F-16 mod should be roughly the same anyway.
 
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GTX said:
I haven't heard anyone call the SABR mediocre before.
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Try reading what American F-16 pilots have to say about that on Reddit.

Don't get me wrong, it's definitely better than the previous radar, but it's underperforming for an AESA radar simply because the F-16 design doesn't give you a lot of room and cooling capacity to work with.
 
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I would also point out that if loading an airframe to the gills with AAMs is goal, nothing would stop an F-35 Blk 4 with sidekick from carrying a dozen weapons either.
 
gigant_rejser said:
But PAF doesn't have much fighters to CAP, only f-35 can be good in A/A. Poland will be have 32 f-35, that is not big amount. Rest of task must take f-16 and fa-50 (A/G). F-15ex will be only double the f-16 and fa-50 capabilities.
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Saying that f-15ex will be bad in a/a is at very least controversial.

It isn't stealth(though logically it should be treated), but stealth matters only for part of A/A profile, and not the whole team has to be stealthy.

VKS isn't exactly a full Su-57 force either; 4th generation fighters are still in active production. Mixed forces are the game for everyone sans small token air forces.
 
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Josh_TN said:
I would also point out that if loading an airframe to the gills with AAMs is goal, nothing would stop an F-35 Blk 4 with sidekick from carrying a dozen weapons either.
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(1)Sidekick isn't part of the upgrade. Some customers want to go for it(Japan), but this is a local diversion. Or did things change?

(2)With external stores f-35 starts to lose out to new f-15 in many ways. While they can be used as such, overall it's much better to keep them clean.
 

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