Bloch unbuilt designs and prototypes

[blackkite]

Hi! MB.170.
http://www.airwar.ru/enc/bww2/mb170.html

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bloch_MB.170
"MB.170
MB.170.01 - The first prototype, equipped as reconnaissance aircraft, powered by Gnome-Rhône 14N-06 engines.
MB.170.02 - The second prototype, equipped as light bomber, powered by Gnome-Rhône 14N-06 engines.
MB.174
MB.174.01 - The original MB.174 prototype, powered by Gnome-Rhône 14N-49 engines.
MB.174A.3 - Original production version, powered by Gnome-Rhône 14N-49 engines.. 56 built
MB.175
MB.175.01 - The original MB.175 prototype, powered by Gnome-Rhône 14N-48 engines.
MB.175B.3 - Second production version. 23 built, plus 56 unarmed aircraft for the Luftwaffe, powered by Gnome-Rhône 14N-48 engines.
MB.175T Post-war torpedo bomber version for the Aeronavale. 80 built.
MB.176
MB.176.01 - The original MB.176 prototype, powered by two Pratt & Whitney R-1830 SC 3-G Twin Wasp engines.
MB.176B.3 - Production version. 5 built
MB.177 Single prototype, powered by two Hispano-Suiza 12Y-31 inline engines.
MB.178 Further development , construction halted by arrival of German forces."

Original MB.174 A.3 three side view drawing source. Also you can see MB.175 B.3 drawings here.
http://lapatrouillesimple.forumgratuit.org/t486-bloch-mb-174

MB.175.
http://www.airwar.ru/enc/bww2/mb175.html

 

[hesham]

Please try to avoid mention a production variants,we want only prototype,unfinished
or Project airplanes.

 

[Avimimus]

I don't know about that... having a complete list with production variants can be interesting - especially given that production of the series was cut-off well before it was complete.

 

[blackkite]

Hi! MB.150 video.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i_bjkNmKk7o

 

[hesham]

From Le Fana 445,

the Bloch MB.500 mock-up,below right.

 

[toura]

another views from "air fan"

 

[hesham]

Thank you my dear Toura.

 

[Apophenia]

the Bloch MB.500 mock-up,below right.

Does this mockup represent a totally different aircraft from the MB.500 T3 or is it a derivative of that 1938 trainer?

 

[hesham]

My dear Apophenia,

I think it was a derivative of it.

 

[hesham]

Bloch MB.360 was six engined transatlantic aircraft project,accommodated 40 passenger,and
powered by six 2200 hp with speed of 600 km/h and weight 63 to 68 ton,the MB.361 was based
on it,and powered 3500 P & W engines,speed of 700 km/h and weight 70 ton.

From Le Fana 447.

 

[hesham]

From TU 171,

the Bloch MB.600 was a light aircraft,powered by two Gipsy engines,maybe remained a Project only ?.

 

[hesham]

Here is a small Info about MB.164 & MB.165,which I thin they were a Projects ?;

The second was originally a grand raid version of the MB-160 but in the end, the designation MB-162 planned for this aircraft which made its first flight in the spring of 1940 was attributed to a bomber declination of the MB-160 and as the designation MB-163 designated a maritime reconnaissance version of the MB-162 (two prototypes) and that the designation MB-164 was reserved for a VIP transport version, it is the designation MB-165 that this aircraft received.

Two prototypes were ordered by the Air Force in December 1942 and delivered in May 1943 for six months of intensive testing. It was therefore in November 1943 that the Air Force decided to order 36 Bloch MB-165s, but Bloch being very busy with other aircraft, it was not until July 1944 that the first aircraft series are delivered, the entire order being fulfilled in September 1945.

Bloch MB-165 – CLAUSUCHRONIA

Articles traitant de Bloch MB-165 écrits par clausmaster

clausuchronia.wordpress.com

 

[lucamax]

Dear Friends,
does anyone have more photo and a clean drawing of the Bloch MB 202?
Thank you.
--
Luca

 

[Archibald]

Here is a small Info about MB.164 & MB.165,which I thin they were a Projects ?;

The second was originally a grand raid version of the MB-160 but in the end, the designation MB-162 planned for this aircraft which made its first flight in the spring of 1940 was attributed to a bomber declination of the MB-160 and as the designation MB-163 designated a maritime reconnaissance version of the MB-162 (two prototypes) and that the designation MB-164 was reserved for a VIP transport version, it is the designation MB-165 that this aircraft received.

Two prototypes were ordered by the Air Force in December 1942 and delivered in May 1943 for six months of intensive testing. It was therefore in November 1943 that the Air Force decided to order 36 Bloch MB-165s, but Bloch being very busy with other aircraft, it was not until July 1944 that the first aircraft series are delivered, the entire order being fulfilled in September 1945.

Bloch MB-165 – CLAUSUCHRONIA

Articles traitant de Bloch MB-165 écrits par clausmaster

clausuchronia.wordpress.com

Hesham: be careful... this is not real ! I know that blog author, Clausewitz. A nice fellow, not a hoaxer by any mean. But this is alternate history, not real. https://clausuchronia.wordpress.com/

 

[hesham]

OK dear Archibald,

but the MB.164 was mentioned TU mgazine.

 

[Sherman Tank]

That doesn't mean anything in that link is actual information, as opposed to fiction.

 

[hesham]

From Wikipedia,

MB.VI was Initial designation of the MB.60 at the Project stage, powered by three 89 kW (120 hp) Salmson 9AC engines;not built.

Here is a drawing to it;

L'histoire de Dassault Aviation, de 1916 à 1945

Des premiers pas industriels de Marcel Bloch, à l'essor de l'un des principaux industriels aéronautiques français.

www.dassault-aviation.com

 

[hesham]

a small info about Bloch MB.550 Project,TU magazine.

Also from; L'Intransigeant 1938.

 

[Justo Miranda]

Bloch M.B.700



The Bloch M.B.700 was designed as an answer to the Programme technique A.23. This small interceptor differentiated from the Roussel in that it was built from wood. This fact made its mass production easier as it did not require strategic materials that could be used for the Dewoitine D.520 conventional fighter. Outwardly, it looked like an 83% scaled down version of the conventional fighter Bloch M.B.152. The main advantage of the M.B.700 reduced size was that while equipped with an engine with 75% the power of an M.B.152, it flew 80 kph faster, still carrying the same armament, and was a more difficult target in dog-fight.

In 1939, a prototype was built in the Blériot-Aéronautique of Suresnes, flying for the first time by mid-April 1940. During the flight tests made on 13 May, it reached a maximum speed of just 380 kph, instead of the expected 580 km/h. As a consequence, the Mercier engine cowling and clear canopy were modified, and external plates were installed in the main undercarriage.

The airplane was destroyed shortly afterwards by the German troops in Buc airfield. There was a plan for a shipboard variant named M.B. 720 with tail hook and the armament reduced to four MAC 1934 M 39 machine guns.



Technical Data



Engine: one 700 hp Gnôme-Rhône 14 M6 fourteen-cylinder, air-cooled radial engine driving a Gnôme Rhône variable-pitch airscrew. Armament: two 20 mm Hispano-Suiza H.S. 404 cannons and two 7.5 mm MAC 1934 M39 belt-feed machine guns mounted in the wings. Wingspan: 8.9 m, length: 7.34 m, height: 3.4 m, wing surface: 12.4 sq.m, maximum weight: 2,000 kg, maximum speed: 550 kph.

 

[Justo Miranda]

Bloch MB.81

 

[hesham]

From Aerophile 1934.

 

[hesham]

The Bloch MB.190,

the MB-190 touring tandem was built from 1936 in SNCASE
workshops in Berre. this copy was all metallic and planned with
a Renault 140 hp engine. A second copy, replica to the first, but
all in wood was simultaneously under construction at Courbevoie.
This second machine, equipped with a Gipsy 130 hp, flew in
June 1937. This cantilever monoplane with low wings, two-seater
in tanden had a sliding glass roof interior and dual control. Of
similar to the Miles or Percival planes, it was painted red
carmine. It seems that only the Courbevoie copy has flown.

 

[avion ancien]

It seems that only the Courbevoie copy has stolen.

Flown, not stolen.

 

[hesham]

From TU 153,

a more Info about MB.101;

MB 100 and 101

Last attempt of Marcel Bloch in the field of private aircraft, the MB 100
was a four-seater tourism with trapezoidal wing and round fin which was
powered by a 150 hp Hispano-Suiza 5 Q engine. It flew in January 1934
and was presented at the Salon de la Qualité French. It remained unique
copy.

The MB 101 was a derivative of the 100 model with an engine Hisparo-Suiza
9 Qa with 250 hp and a bearing surface increased, the wingspan from 9.60 m
to 10.01 m. Conceived in 1934, it will not be realized.

 

[hesham]

Here is a small Info about MB.164 & MB.165,which I thin they were a Projects ?;

The second was originally a grand raid version of the MB-160 but in the end, the designation MB-162 planned for this aircraft which made its first flight in the spring of 1940 was attributed to a bomber declination of the MB-160 and as the designation MB-163 designated a maritime reconnaissance version of the MB-162 (two prototypes) and that the designation MB-164 was reserved for a VIP transport version, it is the designation MB-165 that this aircraft received.

Two prototypes were ordered by the Air Force in December 1942 and delivered in May 1943 for six months of intensive testing. It was therefore in November 1943 that the Air Force decided to order 36 Bloch MB-165s, but Bloch being very busy with other aircraft, it was not until July 1944 that the first aircraft series are delivered, the entire order being fulfilled in September 1945.

Bloch MB-165 – CLAUSUCHRONIA

Articles traitant de Bloch MB-165 écrits par clausmaster

clausuchronia.wordpress.com

From TU 156,

the MB.164 was a real Project,with its drawing;

In January 1945, the Naval Staff launched the study of a version of
Maritime research from Bloch 161. Designated MB-161E then MB-164,
this machine had to have a crew of 10 men with a traversable distance
of 4000 km at the cruising speed of 300 km / h. The offensive armament included 1000 kg of ASM bombs or grenades while the defensive
armament was to include 3 13 mm bitudes posts (front, rear and
inferior).

It was envisaged to order 50 devices of this type to equip two flotillas,
then subsequently 80 machines for 4 flotillas. But eventually all plans
were abandoned. Only a layout model had been started at Suresnes
in September 1945.

 

[Apophenia]

But we should reiterate that Clauchronia is a 'What If' site. After all, the subtitle Une uchronie un peu folle translates as 'A somewhat crazy uchronia'

Google's "ASM bombs and grenades" translation is a bit garbled. That "grenades ASM" (ie: anti-sous-marine) should translate as 'depth charges'. So, the offensive armament was to be 1,000 kg of bombs or depth charges.

Since the Aéronavale used the German Ju 188 postwar, I assume the "13 mm" reference to mean Rheinmetall-Borsig MG 131s (rather than, say, prewar 13.2 mm Hotchkiss Mle 1929s). The gun positions are forward, aft, and ventral - or lower (another meaning of inferieur).

Suresnes, BTW, is on the western outskirts of Paris. Based on that location, this layout model was probably constructed at the former Blériot Aéronautique facility - by then, like Bloch, part of SNCASO. I wonder if André Herbemont was involved in the MB-164 adaptations?

 

[hesham]

From TU 158,a more Info and Drawing to MB.1020,

Studied under the supervision of Paul Deplante within the Bordeaux Aéronautique company founded by Marcel Bloch after nationalization,
the MB-1020 (or BA-1020) was a twin-engine transport intended for Air
France with a clear resemblance to SNCASO's SO-30.

Scheduled for transport of 18 to 24 passengers and two crew members,
it was a two-tailed aircraft equipped with two Gnome engines-Rhône 14 N
or 14 R (see three-view map). The construction of 3 fuselages will be cut,
one of them being practically completed at the Liberation. Marcel Bloch
had high hopes on this machine to restart its activities but the SO-30 of
SNCASO will be preferred. The MB-1020 will therefore never be completed.

 

[hesham]

From TU 156,the MB.400 with drawing,

The last known (currently) member of the 160 family, the MB-400 was a
derivative of the 160 type tricycle designed in 1939, equipped with 4 Gnôme-Rhône engines 14N16 / 17 its construction was started, but the aircraft was destroyed in 1940 without having flown.

 

[Caravellarella]

From TU 158,a more Info and Drawing to MB.1020,

Studied under the supervision of Paul Deplante within the Bordeaux Aéronautique company founded by Marcel Bloch after nationalization,
the MB-1020 (or BA-1020) was a twin-engine transport intended for Air
France with a clear resemblance to SNCASO's SO-30.

Scheduled for transport of 18 to 24 passengers and two crew members,
it was a two-tailed aircraft equipped with two Gnome engines-Rhône 14 N
or 14 R (see three-view map). The construction of 3 fuselages will be cut,
one of them being practically completed at the Liberation. Marcel Bloch
had high hopes on this machine to restart its activities but the SO-30 of
SNCASO will be preferred. The MB-1020 will therefore never be completed.

Dear Hesham, in this image (from my SNCASO SO-30 Facebook group), the fuselage of the incomplete MB.1020 is stored in the background. The prototype Dassault Flamant is in the foreground.

Terry (Caravellarella)

 

[hesham]

Thank you dear Caravellarella,

and from TU 153.

 

[Apophenia]

... and from TU 153.

... speed of 500 km/h for a maximum range of 2,200 km. The defensive armament included a nose 7.5 mm machine gun, a similar weapon in the ventral position, and a dorsal 20 mm cannon. The abandonment of the 14P engines marked the end of the project and the design office then turned to the second MB 134, this time unrelated to the 131 family. A float variant of the first type MB 134 was however offered under the denomination MB 136 equipped with Gnome-Rhone 14N or 14P engines, but this torpedo bomber also remained in the design stage.

Interesting. Other than a mention of possible Gnome-Rhône 14Ps, this MB 136 floatplane seems almost indistinguishable from the built MB 480. Does this represent the change of a project's designation? Or were this MB 136 and the built MB 480 essentially similar but parallel projects?

In reply #107, I had noted that the MB 136 lacked the MB 480's bracing struts - both inter-float and tailplane. In fact, the latter were only added when the MB 480-01's tailplane was raised and clipped. That aside, the armament descriptions are identical - although MB 136 drawings don't show the MB 480's ventral gun position's small blister.

 

[hesham]

Thank you dear Apophenia,

and for all Info about MB.480.

 

[juanT]

Hola
"Prototype marqué Marcel Bloch T.303.01"....and plans of Marcel Dassault D-303.01... from: Le Fanatique d´laviation

 

[Archibald]

The Flamant direct ancestor, evolved into the 310- series.

 

[hesham]

...found the Bloch MB.170 monomoteur...

From TU 171,

the T1 & T2.

 

[juanT]

Hi
Prototype MB-133 RB4 (L+K 1999)

 

[airman]

Hi
Prototype MB-133 RB4 (L+K 1999)

It was surely better than MB 131 : from which book is taken ?

 

[juanT]

Hi
Prototype MB-133 RB4 (L+K 1999)

It was surely better than MB 131 : from which book is taken ?

"Letectví + Kosmonautika" (75 - 1999)

 

[sgeorges4]

Dassault talk about a bloch mb 210 tested in a windturbine using gnome & rhone 14 20/21, not sure how this variant would be externally different from the normal one https://www.dassault-aviation.com/fr/passion/avions/bloch-militaires/mb-210-211/

 

[Apophenia]

Dassault talk about a bloch mb 210 tested in a windturbine using gnome & rhone 14 20/21, not sure how this variant would be externally different from the normal one https://www.dassault-aviation.com/fr/passion/avions/bloch-militaires/mb-210-211/

AFAIK, the Gnome-Rhône 14N 20/21 were to be interchangeable with the GR 14N 10/11 on the MB.210 Bn.4. The key differences between the two engine pairs were the 14N 20/21's increased cooling fin area, slightly larger supercharger, and higher compression ratio (6.8:1 vs 5.5:1).

The Dassault site says 910 hp for both model pairs of 14Ns. However, that was the take-off power for the 14N 10/11 (with 900 hp at 3,000 m). By contrast, the 14N 20/21 were capable of 1,120 hp for take-off (and 1,000 hp at at 4,000 m).