Beeper as a Weapon

yahya said:
If the shipment was indeed made through Jordan, and Jordan was indeed involved, then the consequences would be dire. Jordan, already badly experienced in the recent years, has become a police state. Doubtful such a pager op could have been run without the knowledge and consent from the top level. We should learn soon what was the shipment route, anyway, so this thread still needs clarification.
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I mean, we know that King Houssein of Jordan absolutely hates folks like Hezbollah and DAESH.

There's no doubt in my mind he'd approve an operation like this.



yahya said:
Instead of visiting a shop and buying what was on the shelves at the moment, they most likely relied on contacts and large orders. And that was undoubtedly their gravest mistake.
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When you need some 3000 batteries, you don't go to a shop. If you do, you'll pay way over market.

You go to Alibaba and order direct from China.
 
yahya said:
The short battery life should always rise suspicions. The AR-924 specs mentioned that the internal parts including the battery could be user exchanged. This feature was no doubt exploited in yesterday's attack.

If the shipment was indeed made through Jordan, and Jordan was indeed involved, then the consequences would be dire. Jordan, already badly experienced in the recent years, has become a police state. Doubtful such a pager op could have been run without the knowledge and consent from the top level. We should learn soon what was the shipment route, anyway, so this thread still needs clarification.

I think that Hezbollah were not stupid. The idea to use two-way HAM radios, which they actually did from at least the 1990s, and to use pagers for one-way comms was bright and clever. But they did not suspect the chain supply attack. I presume that the batteries inside the pagers and radios were doctored with explosives, and they were remotely detonated, perhaps from an UAV or ELINT plane. The Icom IC-V82 radio is relatively old. It was introduced around two decades ago. Doubtful they could have got a large shipment of such doctored radios lately. Rather, they had to replace the aging batteries. In such a scenario, they probably asked their member, an Ahmed, to procure them. He contacted his trusted friend, a Samir, who then reached out to Faisal, who was actually a traitor collaborating with Yitzhak. And you know how the story ended. Worse if each of the guys got his commission.

Instead of visiting a shop and buying what was on the shelves at the moment, they most likely relied on contacts and large orders. And that was undoubtedly their gravest mistake.

I assume that Hezbollah already knows who supplied the rigged items. Perhaps that individual (or individuals) undergoes enhanced interrogation while we discuss the matter. Tomorrow, the head of Hezbollah is to make public statement on the attack. Hopefully we will learn more details and the culprit.
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Only the head or the head with a body attached? Now that the walky talkies are exploding too....
 
Scott Kenny said:
I mean, we know that King Houssein of Jordan absolutely hates folks like Hezbollah and DAESH.

There's no doubt in my mind he'd approve an operation like this.




When you need some 3000 batteries, you don't go to a shop. If you do, you'll pay way over market.

You go to Alibaba and order direct from China.
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The late King Hussein was known to have been on US payroll.

I do not know about King Abdullah II's attitude towards Hezbollah. He seems to be more cautious. But there is a huge security apparatus that is not necessarily fully responsible.

Today's walkie talkie attacks toll in Lebanon: at least 1 dead, and 100 wounded.

Below is a SM photo of another damaged Icom IC-V82:

photo_2024-09-18_17-38-47.jpg

So, Hezbollah's comm infrastructure was basically shut down within two days.

I wonder what will be Icom's response to the above incidents.
 
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Scott Kenny said:
We already know they're going to blame Israel. And admittedly, it's a really good bet that it was the Israelis that did this. But that doesn't mean that Israel actually did it. There's probably half a dozen agencies/countries that would happily set up such an attack on Hezbollah, including Russia, US, UK, Israel, possibly Jordan, ... Or a combination of some or all of the the above.

And yes, I do think that parts of the Russian government would work with US or other intelligence agencies to deal with Hezbollah. "Hey, CIA, we have contact looking for new batteries for Hezbollah radios." "Oh, really, KGB? You mind if we give them an explosive present?" "Nyet, Hezbollah is pain in our ass, too!"
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Israel already briefed the US on the attack yesterday, they said it was a joint Mossad-IDF operation.

Its certainly escalatory, the international community managed to talk Iran down from retaliating from the attack inside its territory but now that good will has been burnt.
 
yahya said:
An interesting new analysis pointing to the British intel involvement in yesterday's attack:
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She went to SOAS (School of Oriental and African Studies) so it's clearly British intelligence? This is a level of logic akin to saying the sky is blue, therefore it must Wednesday.

SOAS originally specialised in Asia and Africa, it still does to an extent, but has widened its coverage in recent years and is now essentially a post grad school/university with full coverage outside of the sciences. A friend of mine got her doctorate at SOAS about 5 years back, she specialises in how Christian Churches approach disability....
 
Do you have hard evidence other than the reference to a friend graduate that contradicts the quoted analysis? In the discussion above, more countries and their intel agencies were listed as possible contributors or facilitators of the Lebanon attacks in the recent days.
 
Lots of people talking about the technology and how clever an attack it was.

But was it?

3000 explosions randomly scattered around a country is not an attack pattern consistent with the laws of war. There was no capability to determine who else was in the blast radius or otherwise likely to be endangered and whether they were civilians.

Mossad has staged technologically clever attacks before, but they've almost always been specifically targeted at a target few people will object to. That isn't true here and people outside Israel aren't going to remember "two hezbollah fighters killed", they're going to remember "young girl killed".

Israel is losing the PR war, and it's doing it to itself.

breakingdefense.com

US special ops official lays out 'strategic' reason for Israel to better protect civilians - Breaking Defense

Chris Maier, assistant secretary of defense for Special Operations and Low-Intensity Conflict, said how the Israeli military operates "has concerned us at times."
breakingdefense.com breakingdefense.com
 
yahya said:
Do you have hard evidence other than the reference to a friend graduate that contradicts the quoted analysis? In the discussion above, more countries and their intel agencies were listed as possible contributors or facilitators of the Lebanon attacks in the recent days.
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Using the word 'analysis' for claiming that there is a British intel connection just because someone claimed to go to SOAS and LSE????

They're just universities....and if you knew anything about British universities you'd know that someone going to SOAS in particular means they're more likely to work for anyone but British Intelligence Agencies...
 
yahya said:
Do you have hard evidence other than the reference to a friend graduate that contradicts the quoted analysis? In the discussion above, more countries and their intel agencies were listed as possible contributors or facilitators of the Lebanon attacks in the recent days.
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That's not analysis. It barely reaches the standard of drivel. An article repeatedly talking about 'Netanyahoo' clearly has a bias issue, if not a maturity one, and that's before we get to the facts, or absence of same.

The sum total of facts are that a name reportedly linked to the company reportedly implicated in the supply of the pagers reportedly went to a UK university (LSE) and post grad school (SOAS). We don't even know if that is a real identity, never mind a real CV. And it makes the bizarre assumption that someone with that CV is clearly British intelligence. Are we also to assume that Crown Princess Mette-Marit of Norway, UK Foreign Secretary David Lammy, and the former Prime Ministers of Turkey, Ghana and Mozambique are MI6 assets because they attended SOAS?
 
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Its a bit OT. im not wanting to add any credence to unverified speculation but like many such institutions, SOAS. is a potential recruiting ground for a number of 'security services', more so with regard language's and overseas experience. Certain courses often see students being approached after suitable background vetting etc.
 
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DWG said:
That's not analysis. It barely reaches the standard of drivel. An article repeatedly talking about 'Netanyahoo' clearly has a bias issue, if not a maturity one, and that's before we get to the facts, or absence of same.

The sum total of facts are that a name reportedly linked to the company reportedly implicated in the supply of the pagers reportedly went to a UK university (LSE) and post grad school (SOAS). We don't even know if that is a real identity, never mind a real CV. And it makes the bizarre assumption that someone with that CV is clearly British intelligence. Are we also to assume that Crown Princess Mette-Marit of Norway, UK Foreign Secretary David Lammy, and the former Prime Ministers of Turkey, Ghana and Mozambique are MI6 assets because they attended SOAS?
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While I do not know for sure, I can only assume that you are from the UK or at least from the Commonwealth. I hope that you will read what follows to learn something about your country. People who I know and who studied at various UK's universities in the past, including the top ones, had an impression that these institution were infested by spooks, who were profiling the students or even begging some for information. The students who succumbed made some careers later, others did not. Whether that served your country, and did not serve other countries, the history will eventually judge.

Now, could we get back to the pager and walkie talkie Lebanon attacks please?
 
according some News reports
next Walkie-talkie start handheld Radios to explode at the Hezbollah...

...while social media gloatingly the current events.
but seriously, people died here ! its not funny !
 
yahya said:
I hope that you will read what follows to learn something about your country.
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Perhaps you might try applying some basic logic to the situation? The UK has something over two million university students, the UK intelligence community (MI6/SIS, MI5 and GCHQ) amounts to around 16,000 people. Even if we assume only 20 year careers, that comes to barely 800 recruits a year (almost half of them for GCHQ), across over 160 universities. So MI6 will recruit on average around one person per university per year.* And nowadays they recruit openly.

SIS | Intelligence Officers

www.sis.gov.uk www.sis.gov.uk

* TSRJoe is correct that recruitment from SOAS has historically been higher because of specialist language skills, but there are 6000+ students at SOAS, and the overwhelming majority will never come near an MI6 recruiter, because they're studying fields of no interest to MI6, doubly so if they're a non-Brit.

Personally I'm still pouting that GCHQ never tried to recruit me ;)
 
DWG said:
Perhaps you might try applying some basic logic to the situation? The UK has something over two million university students, the UK intelligence community (MI6/SIS, MI5 and GCHQ) amounts to around 16,000 people. Even if we assume only 20 year careers, that comes to barely 800 recruits a year (almost half of them for GCHQ), across over 160 universities. So MI6 will recruit on average around one person per university per year.* And nowadays they recruit openly.

SIS | Intelligence Officers

www.sis.gov.uk www.sis.gov.uk

* TSRJoe is correct that recruitment from SOAS has historically been higher because of specialist language skills, but there are 6000+ students at SOAS, and the overwhelming majority will never come near an MI6 recruiter, because they're studying fields of no interest to MI6, doubly so if they're a non-Brit.

Personally I'm still pouting that GCHQ never tried to recruit me ;)
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You're confusing two things. Applying for a career in these institutions is not equal to recruiting assets from foreign countries. If they attract one employee per uni per year according to your estimates, no doubt your country internationally is in a steady decline since 1945. Perhaps the reading about the experiences of ex-personnel like Tomlinson, Shayler, Machon, Kane or Gun further discouraged potential recruits.
 
Archibald said:
Death toll from the talkie-walkies is now 12, so 21 dead so far.
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It's getting worse.
Today's death toll is 14.
Number of wounded is ca. 450.


www.al-monitor.com

At least 14 killed, 450 injured as second wave of blasts targets Hezbollah devices in Lebanon

Hezbollah has vowed to respond to the pagers attack, which it pinned on Israel, as the two parties continue to exchange fire along the Lebanese-Israeli border.
www.al-monitor.com www.al-monitor.com

arstechnica.com

14 dead as Hezbollah walkie-talkies explode in second, deadlier attack

People aren't sure what devices will explode next.
arstechnica.com arstechnica.com
 
Two kids killed in yesterday's pager explosions, Bilal Kanj and Fatima Abdullah, were buried today.

en.abna24.com

Photos: Two kids among martyrs of Israel cyber attack on Lebanon

Two kids among martyrs of Israel cyber attack on Lebanon: 10 years old Fatima Jaafar Abdullah and Bilal Kanj
en.abna24.com

98a8a986-2c71-4211-922a-3f9d684bf039.jpeg



www.huffpost.com

Funeral Held For 9-Year-Old Girl Killed In Lebanon Pager Explosions

Fatima Abdullah had recently started fourth grade.
www.huffpost.com www.huffpost.com

 
yahya said:
Two kids killed in yesterday's pager explosions, Bilal Kanj and Fatima Abdullah, were buried today.

en.abna24.com

Photos: Two kids among martyrs of Israel cyber attack on Lebanon

Two kids among martyrs of Israel cyber attack on Lebanon: 10 years old Fatima Jaafar Abdullah and Bilal Kanj
en.abna24.com

98a8a986-2c71-4211-922a-3f9d684bf039.jpeg



www.huffpost.com

Funeral Held For 9-Year-Old Girl Killed In Lebanon Pager Explosions

Fatima Abdullah had recently started fourth grade.
www.huffpost.com www.huffpost.com

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Sad
 
The sources explained that the material used in the complex operation could bypass all scanning equipment available even in countries and airports around the world as the explosive material is undetectable. In other words, the explosive material is "specially designed for this mission."

Contrary to initial assumptions, it was not the pager batteries that caused the explosions, but the lithium within them that caused the detonation. The blast was triggered through advanced technology, which transmitted a message activating the explosives.

Additionally, the sources revealed that the explosives, often waist-strapped, were intended to cause maximum harm by directly impacting the body. It was noted that pager units that were either turned off or located in areas without coverage did not explode, as well as older pager models.

That being said, the sources then expanded by explaining that the pagers had been "rigged from source via their IC (Integrated Circuit) units," where the explosive material was contained.
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Source:


 
sublight_ said:
I will just leave this here since I don't have portraits of the 220 Marines and 18 sailors.....

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On the morning of Sunday, October 23, 1983, a second suicide bomber struck the Drakkar building, a few miles away, where the French contingent was stationed; 55 paratroopers from the 1.er Parachute Hunter Regiment and three paratroopers from the 9th Parachute Hunter Regiment were killed and 15 wounded. The wife and four children of a Lebanese janitor in the French building were also killed and more than twenty Lebanese civilians were wounded.
 
The theory that there was around there thousands of batteries rigged with explosive is absurd. Why would you expose the general public to such risks for an indefinite period of time? Visualize those pagers at airports, in flight with someone seated close to you etc...
 
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In my opinion, the easiest way to do this would be to replace in transit a full shipment of pagers destined for Beirut with one manipulated to blow them up by radio-frequency, perhaps from an ELINT aircraft.

Perhaps those who purchased the pagers did not take precautions by examining some copies because they considered that the entire purchase operation had been kept secret. Perhaps a simple explosives detector would have been enough to uncover the deception. I regret the losses of non-combatants.
 
TomcatViP said:
The theory that there was around there thousands of batteries rigged with explosive is absurd. Why would you expose the general public to such risks for an indefinite period of time? Visualize those pagers at airports, in flight with someone seated close to you etc...
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From the sounds of things, they were able to infiltrate some very specific supply chains indeed. Also, it seems that some exotic explosives and associated technologies may have been used.
 
@Grey Havoc : I would understand if that was done in a controlled manner, for a dozen or so targets where risks can be rigorously assessed. But thousands?! How can you guarantee that not a single one would cross beyond your assessment plan? That would require an industrial level of risk assessment for something that could only have been put in place in a matter of months.
 

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