BAe P.1216: Supersonic ASTOVL fighter

Re: BAe P.1216: Supersonic ASTOVL fighter by Michael Pryce

SABA and P.1154. Both get my vote.
 
Re: BAe P.1216: Supersonic ASTOVL fighter by Michael Pryce

The P.1154 is featured in the P.1216 book, as are some other projects - BAe P.1205, P.1212, P.1214, P.1222 and others from Kingston, plus the P.103, P.109, P.112, P.115 and P116 from Warton. All are illustrated.


Books on P.1154 and SABA are already in my head. For the P.1154 one I'd combine it with the HS.681.
 
Re: BAe P.1216: Supersonic ASTOVL fighter by Michael Pryce

I said don't tease us! ::)

Harrier projects really appeals to me, big wing GR3 and Sea Harrier concepts etc. Currently reading Pegasus by Andrew Dow which has reminded me of the wasted potential of the Harrier/Pegasus combination.

Is any of your previous work available on Harrier developments?
 
Re: BAe P.1216: Supersonic ASTOVL fighter by Michael Pryce

My Harrier projects paper is available via the Society of Automotive Engineers - http://papers.sae.org/2005-01-3195/ - but they charge as much as a book would cost, and the paper needs an update anyway - found a lot more since!


They also have the paper that started me on the road to the P.1216 book - http://papers.sae.org/2003-01-3050/
 
Re: BAe P.1216: Supersonic ASTOVL fighter by Michael Pryce

Glad to hear the 1216 book will out next week - for sure I'll be buying one! It may finally give me the impetus to get on and do the R/C one that I've been threatening ever since I read the BSP Fighters book.

On the other note, SABA book please (R/C P1233...)

S
 
Re: BAe P.1216: Supersonic ASTOVL fighter by Michael Pryce

The pictures in the book should help with models of all sorts. A flying R/C one would be very cool!



SABA looks a likely candidate for the next book.
 
Re: BAe P.1216: Supersonic ASTOVL fighter by Michael Pryce

In an email from Amazon today :-
Michael Pryce "BAe P.1216: Supersonic ASTOVL Aircraft (ProjectTech Profiles)"
Estimated arrival date: August 19 2011 - August 22 2011




cheers,
Robin.
 
Re: BAe P.1216: Supersonic ASTOVL fighter by Michael Pryce

harrier said:
The P.1154 is featured in the P.1216 book, as are some other projects - BAe P.1205, P.1212, P.1214, P.1222 and others from Kingston, plus the P.103, P.109, P.112, P.115 and P116 from Warton. All are illustrated.
...
Click to expand...

As such thi kit might be of interest !??

http://fantastic-plastic.com/BAEHawkerP1214CatalogPage.htm

Deino
 
Re: BAe P.1216: Supersonic ASTOVL fighter by Michael Pryce

Mike

Will be buying this one. You have to do a book on the HS 1154 and HS 681 to
match Damien's TSR 2 book.

It could also include the saga of the RN's Phantom alternatives ending with the BAC 583

offered in lieu of 1154. BAC 583 and the other swing wing projects have been alluded to
in BSP and Project Cancelled but we need to know more!

The HS 681 could also cover the DH 129 and cooperation with the Germans on Do 131.

In fact the theme might broaden to cover the whole RAF/NATO mobile air force idea of
the early 60s.

Anyway I must get off and order your book

Ralph
 
Re: BAe P.1216: Supersonic ASTOVL fighter by Michael Pryce

A book on the SABA proposals would be fantastic!!! ;)
 
Re: BAe P.1216: Supersonic ASTOVL fighter by Michael Pryce

Thanks for the order Ralph, and the ideas on the next one.


SABA and 'the other 1965 planes' sound good to me.
 
Re: BAe P.1216: Supersonic ASTOVL fighter by Michael Pryce

How do I buy this? When I go to Amazon it reads "Out of print -limited availability."

NM, was able to order it from Amazon UK.
 
Re: BAe P.1216: Supersonic ASTOVL fighter by Michael Pryce

It's here!

I'll be shipping it out to Amazon and other respectable bookshops in the next couple of days.

And here is the photographic evidence:

Chris
 

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Re: BAe P.1216: Supersonic ASTOVL fighter by Michael Pryce

;D ;D ;D
 
Re: BAe P.1216: Supersonic ASTOVL fighter by Michael Pryce

Ralph,

There's a bit on the Vickers Type 582 and 583 AEW variants in "The Admiralty and AEW" which will be going for layout sometime soon once some funds come in from P.1216.

Chris
 
Re: BAe P.1216: Supersonic ASTOVL fighter by Michael Pryce

Got my copy today, and it's great! Of course, I am biassed... ;)


Those who have already placed orders should get them in the next few days. I hope you like it.
 
Re: BAe P.1216: Supersonic ASTOVL fighter by Michael Pryce

I ordered mine through amazon quite a while ago; received another notification today apologising for a further delay.
 
Re: BAe P.1216: Supersonic ASTOVL fighter by Michael Pryce

My copy came in the post from the publisher, one of the first ten 'handmade' ones off the line, but he has started despatching them to distributors, who fulfil Amazon's orders.


I will be doing direct orders from this weekend if you want to use that method.


I used to work for the company that supplied the systems and data for Amazon and know that it can take a week or more for their website to catch up with events.
 
Re: BAe P.1216: Supersonic ASTOVL fighter by Michael Pryce

Indeed, and 8 lucky chaps will receive their copy first thing tomorrow morning as I posted them out today. One very lucky chap will receive Blue Envoy's equivalent of Willie Wonka's Golden Ticket as there's a copy with extra bonus pics of Maggie.

Chris
 
Re: BAe P.1216: Supersonic ASTOVL fighter by Michael Pryce

Sorry to be a bit thick but is the best way to order via Amazon or by some other method? I'm just a little wary of Amazon when it's still saying "not yet released" (though I note the explanation given above).
 
Re: BAe P.1216: Supersonic ASTOVL fighter by Michael Pryce

And I just received a message today from Amazon.co.uk that they can't tell me a new delivery date at the moment since it was postponed again ! :eek:
 
Re: BAe P.1216: Supersonic ASTOVL fighter by Michael Pryce

I have my copy - ta Chris - review to follow tomorrow.
 
Re: BAe P.1216: Supersonic ASTOVL fighter by Michael Pryce

I'd suggest direct orders, personally.
 
Re: BAe P.1216: Supersonic ASTOVL fighter by Michael Pryce

overscan said:
I'd suggest direct orders, personally.
Click to expand...

Me too, ... but since at the given hame-page he specifies "
[font=arial, helvetica, sans-serif]Further information on individual orders will follow shortly[/font]​
" I thought I should wait ! ???
 
Re: BAe P.1216: Supersonic ASTOVL fighter by Michael Pryce

Deino,

In about an hour my boxes of books should be arriving. So further details will follow after that!

Prices (direct) are £9.95 for the book, plus P&P of:

£1.60 for the UK
£3.00 for Europe
£4.50 Rest of World

Paypal details will be on the webpage

BAe P.1216 Supersonic ASTOVL Aircraft by Michael Pryce

The BAe P.1216 supersonic ASTOVL project was a Harrier successor designed in the 1980s. This new book, part of the ProjectTech Profiles series, tells its story.
web.archive.org
by tomorrow (day job also needs to be done - UK 'A' level results today!).

Mike
 
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Re: BAe P.1216: Supersonic ASTOVL fighter by Michael Pryce

Chris thanks for the ref on your AEW book which I shall also buy.

Mike I have fooloishly ordered my copy from Amazon UK so may not see it for a couple of weeks. But
at least you have some money in the Amazon till. As soon as I get it I will come back to the site.

I have a very crude, but I think quite sweet, 1-72 desk model from Builderscience in the Philippines. It is
in pale blue and is the sort of thing BAe would have given to clients back in the 80s. Once I have your book
I am sure I can get some more ideas.

The collector who owns the BAC 581 model also has original models of the 1216 and 1214. Interestingly BAe house
models were finished in a plain white gloss finish.

All the best
Ralph
 
Re: BAe P.1216: Supersonic ASTOVL fighter by Michael Pryce

Received a copy as a direct order from Chris today ;D
 
Re: BAe P.1216: Supersonic ASTOVL fighter by Michael Pryce

Direct orders now available:
Click to expand...


Amazon order cancelled, ordered direct instead......... B)




cheers,
Robin.
 
Re: BAe P.1216: Supersonic ASTOVL fighter by Michael Pryce

I should be placing an order at the end of the month :D
For some reason, this project more than most, really has become a firm favourite and tbh it'd not look out of place on the new British Carriers. Ahh, if only. And the book might help me perfect the Lego model of the P1216 I built for my wee boy.
Regards
Malky
 
Re: BAe P.1216: Supersonic ASTOVL fighter by Michael Pryce

Thank you Michael, I've just placed my (direct) order as well.
 
Re: BAe P.1216: Supersonic ASTOVL fighter by Michael Pryce

robunos said:
Amazon order cancelled, ordered direct instead......... B)

cheers,
Robin.
Click to expand...

dito ...
Cheers, Deino
 
Re: BAe P.1216: Supersonic ASTOVL fighter by Michael Pryce

Direct orders to the publisher are always best because this means they garner a much higher profit margin compared to selling for the same sticker price (or less) via vendors (who pass on a much lower amount of dollars to the publisher for sales). This is good for enthusiasts because it promotes more investment in the kind of books we want to buy. So rethink that $5 or $10 saving you may have via Amazon and like and buy from the publisher. The long term benefit for all of us is substantial.
 
Re: BAe P.1216: Supersonic ASTOVL fighter by Michael Pryce

Thanks for the orders, all due to ship Monday AM.

Abraham, thanks for pointing out the benefits of direct orders. If P1216 does as well as we hope the next ones will also benefit - more income=more ability to make research trips to archives.
 
Re: BAe P.1216: Supersonic ASTOVL fighter by Michael Pryce

Mike Chris
I have cancelled my Amazon order and ordered direct thru Blueyonder today and paypaled.
Brain not quite in gear this week.

All the best
Ralph
 
Re: BAe P.1216: Supersonic ASTOVL fighter by Michael Pryce

Well i have received one direct from Blue Envoy but have retained my Amazon Order as i will have a pristine bookcase copy and a working copy for modelling purposes :D .

Whilst it is good to order direct from the publisher as they then get a bigger share of the sales profit please remeber that its the likes of Amazon that help push the overall sales thanks to their association of similar and popular titles so the book becomes better known over a wider circle.

Not sure if a sudden rash of cancellations off amazon would have a knock on effect with them taking future publications from Blue Envoy as a result :-\ .

Anyway an excellent book so far although it does leave you the option to do an full 1154/1127 Harrier projects edition as a follow on ;D

Cheers

Geoff
 
Re: BAe P.1216: Supersonic ASTOVL fighter by Michael Pryce

When I spoke with Ralph Hooper he intimated to me that the cancellation of the P.1154 had probably been a good thing in hindsight, as the Harrier was challenging enough without adding in supersonic performance. However, he believed the P.1216 was a sensible, achievable design which could have met its goals.

The P.1216 is a very interesting project, as it represented a serious attempt to build a supersonic STOVL fighter built on the rich experience of the Harrier design team. It was effectively the "last hurrah" from the justly famous Kingston team. Its unconventional appearance was the result of long experience with day-to-day STOVL operation, and would certainly have stood out from the pack in a way the Eurofighter Typhoon doesn't. In the early 1980s these two very different projects were competing for funding and had things gone differently, it might have been British (or British-American) P.1216's flying missions over Libya.

In this latest ProjectTech volume Michael Pryce has done an excellent job of documenting the evolution of the P.1216 design and the various alternatives to it which were proposed by Kingston and the other BAe team at Warton, alongside the political and economic realities that resulted in it not being built. Making extensive use of primary documents and interviews with the various engineers involved, this is an authoritative account and contains lots of interesting new illustrations. These include many different revisions of the P.1216 plus other designs.

P.1205 (+ derivatives)
P.1212-1
P.1212-2C
P.1214-4 (FSW design)
P.1216-1
P.1216-2
P.1216-6
P.1216-7
P.1216-8
P.1216-9 (VG version)
P.1216-13
P.1216-15
P.1216-16
P.1216-17
P.1216-20
P.1216-21
P.1216-30
P.1216 (AEW)
P.1216-41
P.1216-43
P.1216-46
P.1216-50
P.1218-1 (twin engined design with McDonnell-Douglas, P.1216/Model 279 hybrid)
P.1219
P.1220
P.1221
P.1226-1 (subsonic twin boom fighter)
P.1226-8
P.1230-6

Warton Designs

P.103
P.109
P.109-6
P.112 (RALS, canard delta)
P.115N-1 (twin tandem fans, canard delta)
P.115C-4
P.116-N1


The production of the book is largely very good. layout is clear and attractive. There are lots of images, mostly well-reproduced. There are however a few typos and a couple of minor problems with images. Specifically, on page 45, three of the 3 views are cropped to the left so you lose part of the front view (P.1218-1, P.1219, P.1220). Also, the inside back cover has a full page 3 view of the P1216-41 which is too low resolution for the size it is printed and has come out with visible "jaggies".

These minor problems don't spoil the book, which I heartily recommend, but better layout proofing will be desirable for future ProjectTech volumes.
 
Re: BAe P.1216: Supersonic ASTOVL fighter by Michael Pryce

Paul,


Thanks for the review. I'm glad you like it.


Regarding the 1218, 1219 and 1220 GAs, the original images were effectively cropped by misalignment of the aperture cards I got them from, so the 'missing' bit is original.


As for the 'jaggies', it seems a thumbnail got printed. The full size image is also inside the book, without them.


When I first saw the P.1216, many years ago when researching the P.1154, I thought it was some 'left-field' aberration from Kingston. It took many years for me to realise just how serious and sensible it was. I hope the book lets readers understand that too - Ralph Hooper is Britain's greatest post-war aircraft designer for a reason. It was a privilege to interview him, and the many other Kingston staff I talked to during my research.
 
Re: BAe P.1216: Supersonic ASTOVL fighter by Michael Pryce

Thanks for that - perhaps a reference in the text would have saved readers thinking it was a printing error.


Agree on Ralph Hooper, a great engineer and nice gentleman.
 
Re: BAe P.1216: Supersonic ASTOVL fighter by Michael Pryce

Geoff

I take your point but impatience is the vice of the elderly.

Chris Mike

My copy ordered from you arrived this morning. A pleasant way indeed to start the day.

The book has the look and feel of a BAe original brochure. Being able to use the original colour
plates from the early 80s really adds to the feel, as well as suggesting some possible colour schemes- the lovely USAF aircraft in Vietnam SEAC and then new air superiority grey. The pre-Falklands Fleet Air Arm colours. Also if I am not mistaken the plane shown with the USN version and the Backfire is finished in RAF Air Defence grey or silver (it has the tail marking so is not Fleet Air Arm).
Wonderful manufacturers drawings, especially of all the possible armaments configurations.
The story of this period of VSTOL is essential reading as it fills in the gaps left by other books.

Oh and I loved the little artists impression of the RAF P 1154 in Green and Brown camouflage (like the later artists impressions of the GD F-111 in RAF colours). Makes one wonder if the RAF were looking at this colour scheme (used on Army aircraft of the period) or whether it was a nice bit of artistic licence. Army Air Corps HS 1154s, that would have been a thing!

A splendid tome which will now go with my little model as a momento of this fascinating machine.

Any gripes? Only one little one. I would have liked to learn a bit more about the Forward swept wing P 1214, which was shown publicly as a red herring. But other books do cover this.

Am thirsting for the next work!
 

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