BAe HOTOL

[magnus_z]

 

[hesham]

Hi,

the BAe HOTOL projects;
http://www.flightglobal.com/FlightPDFArchive/1988/1988%20-%200537.pdf

Hi,

http://www.flightglobal.com/pdfarchive/view/1991/1991%20-%203290.html

 

[Lauge]

Just a note: As I understand it, there were two different projects under the HOTOL name: The original HOTOL, and the HOTOL 2 (or "Interim HOTOL"). The latter was a much less ambitious project using fairly ordinary rocket engines for a mid-air start off the back of an AN-225. This was, again as I understand it, intended as a stop-gap launcher until the Full Monty became available, air liquefying engines and all.

Regards & all,

Thomas L. Nielsen
Luxembourg

 

[Michel Van]

Just a note: As I understand it, there were two different projects under the HOTOL name: The original HOTOL, and the HOTOL 2 (or "Interim HOTOL"). The latter was a much less ambitious project using fairly ordinary rocket engines for a mid-air start off the back of an AN-225. This was, again as I understand it, intended as a stop-gap launcher until the Full Monty became available, air liquefying engines and all.

that's true HOTOL 2, nickname in some forums as "Super Deform" HOTOL
was cheap Interim version to expensive to Developed air liquefying engines version

mmm... Monty ? dit you mean Money Thomas?
we have good "spell check" in this forum B)

 

[martinbayer]

I assume he refers to this:

http://www.phrases.org.uk/meanings/full%20monty.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Full_Monty

Martin

 

[Orionblamblam]

This was, again as I understand it, intended as a stop-gap launcher until the Full Monty became available...

mmm... Monty ? dit you mean Money Thomas?
we have good "spell check" in this forum B)

Ummm... "Fully Monty:" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Full_monty

 

[Lauge]

I assume he refers to this:

http://www.phrases.org.uk/meanings/full%20monty.html

You assume correctly, kind Sir.

Regards & all,

Thomas L. Nielsen
Luxembourg

PS: Considering the number of posts dedicated to this seemingly innocuous (http://www.thefreedictionary.com/innocuous) use of English slang, I shall certainly attempt to abstein (http://www.thefreedictionary.com/abstain) from such frivolity (http://www.thefreedictionary.com/frivolity) henceforth (http://www.thefreedictionary.com/henceforth) ;D

 

[flateric]

HOTOL intakes as of June 1987
http://www.flightglobal.com/pdfarchive/view/1987/1987%20-%200985.html

 

[flateric]

HOTOL program official patch

 

[Michel Van]

some information about this

BAe proposed HOTOL as hypersonic passenger craft !
a passenger pod (50 person) install in Cargo bay

launch from this sledge at 290 knots it makes powered climb to 180 miles at mach 6
then reenter the atmosphere and glide to airport for landing
London -> Sydney in 45 Minute

odd in source, HOTOL fly this under remote control
while the picture show a cockpit on passenger pod

Manned HOTOL
BAe wanted a fleet with 5 to 6 HOTOL Wat one of them is for Manned flight into space

Source:
"The Dream Machines" by Ron Miller
page 602-603

in 1990 British Aerospace Ltd. presented a alternate European space station designs for ESA
were HOTOL resupply the Station in Orbit
http://www.astronautix.com/craft/briation.htm
http://www.astronautix.com/graphics/l/ltsas90e.gif

 

[FutureSpaceTourist]

The windows at the top of the passenger pod look like cockpit windows. Were they planning to put pilots on-board (if only to reassure the passengers ), or was it simply a viewing point?

 

[Michel Van]

or was it simply a viewing point?

like the Lounge on early Boeing 747-100 ?
good view for a cocktail ;D

 

[Antonio]

Hotol note from Flug Revue May 1994

 

[Triton]

Source:
http://www.ninfinger.org/models/vault/HOTOL/index.html

 

[Simon666]

Btw, some more on its front rudder. I assumed previously it was there because of the larger moment arm. Recently I've been looking for info on the web about front rudders. I've found virtually no technical info on the subject, I do know however the Wright brothers used a front rudder (not a good one at that) and it's also used on Rutan's Defiant. Basically the only info I found was on a radio controlled airplane modellers forum, stating that for yaw stability you still need a rear rudder that is significantly larger in surface area than the front rudder (different moment arms requires more adjustment).

So my question is: has anyone more info on front rudders as used on Hotol and with the lack of rear rudder: would the Hotol configuration as displayed with a front rudder only, be stable in yaw or would flight control software need to adjust this continuously?

 

[flateric]

this may help
http://www.springer.com/cda/content/document/cda_downloaddocument/9783540891802-c1.pdf?SGWID=0-0-45-1064740-p173898903

 

[flateric]

http://www.ebay.com/itm/RUSSIAN-UR-45678-AH-225-456-HOTOL-MPIR-RESIN-AIRPLANE-SPACE-SHUTTLE-/190580890442?pt=Diecast_Vehicles&hash=item2c5f819b4a#ht_500wt_1413

 

[malcolm]

Hotol - see


http://cache.gawker.com/assets/images/gizmodo/2009/03/hotol-cutaway.jpg
http://www.daviddarling.info/encyclopedia/H/HOTOL.html

from - http://groups.yahoo.com/group/space-modelers/message/84872

 

[OM]

...Love to know if that mesh is available for download somewhere, or if the guy who gen' the mesh is being a greedy [censored] about it ;D

 

[flateric]

http://www.ebay.com/itm/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=300692330719&ssPageName=ADME:B:SS:US:1123#ht_1161wt_1396

 

[flateric]

Mriya&HOTOL in WT in slightly better resolution

 

[flateric]

oh! nya-nya!

 

[Michel Van]

nice bumpersticker ;D


on SST version of HOTOL the the source make a mistake
to get from London to Sydney in 45 minute you need not mach 6, but mach 22 !


back to Hardware trouble.
One of biggest problems HOTOL had was the heavy engine in back,
if the fuel was burned, the center of gravity shift more to back until HOTOL stall (in engine and flight)
what had they proposed to counter that ?

 

[hole in the ground]

One of biggest problems HOTOL had was the heavy engine in back,
if the fuel was burned, the center of gravity shift more to back until HOTOL stall (in engine and flight)
what had they proposed to counter that ?

this


http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,2455.0.html

 

[flateric]

another HOTOL patch

 

[RGClark]

One of biggest problems HOTOL had was the heavy engine in back,
if the fuel was burned, the center of gravity shift more to back until HOTOL stall (in engine and flight)
what had they proposed to counter that ?

this

http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,2455.0.html

The Skylon is pretty far along so probably this problem of the shifting center of gravity was solved. But is it discussed specifically in that thread?

Bob Clark

 

[Hobbes]

Skylon's engines are on the wingtips, much farther forward than the HOTOL configuration. That was done to solve the CG shift problem.

 

[DSE]

Skylon's engines are on the wingtips, much farther forward than the HOTOL configuration. That was done to solve the CG shift problem.

Presentation from last month's AIAA Spaceplances Conference.
Roger Longstaff, Reaction Engines, Ltd., "From HOTOL to SKYLON. British Spaceplane Programs: Past, Present and Future" (PDF)

 

[SteveO]

Thanks DSE, nice find.

 

[Archibald]

Yes, an interesting document with a couple of early HOTOL designs (quite ugly, by the way)

 

[flateric]

via <JAKE> at http://forum.spotters.net.ua

 

[Archibald]

Just wanted to say that this book Spaceflight in the Era of Aero-Space Planes has a good account of HOTOL very early history (notably how Alan Bond met Bob Parkinson at a BIS meeting in spring 1982)

At the very beginning HOTOL was somewhat like a DC-X with air liquefaction, but the trajectories were not compatible. Bob Parkinson convinced Alan Bond to go with a winged shape.

 

[flateric]

...

 

[PMN1]

Just wanted to say that this book Spaceflight in the Era of Aero-Space Planes has a good account of HOTOL very early history (notably how Alan Bond met Bob Parkinson at a BIS meeting in spring 1982)

At the very beginning HOTOL was somewhat like a DC-X with air liquefaction, but the trajectories were not compatible. Bob Parkinson convinced Alan Bond to go with a winged shape.

I know the HOTOL engine (Satan??) and Sabre are not the same things but I asked a while back about a Sabre type engine for VTOVL craft and got this answer.

No, the thrust/weight of Sabre is unsuitable for vertical takeoff Cheers Richard Varvill

 

[sferrin]

How is the SABRE engine any different than any other LACE engine? ???

 

[FighterJock]

How is the SABRE engine any different than any other LACE engine? ???

You can always check Reaction Engines website at http://www.reactionengines.co.uk they do a better job at explaining the SABRE engine than I could![/size]

 

[Hobbes]

SABRE does not liquefy the incoming air.

 

[Archibald]

The subtile difference is that it bring air close from liquefaction, but not there.
The other difference is that HOTOL liquefied air by bleeding liquid hydrogen that once in a gaseous state was lost. Skylon by contrast uses an "indirect" helium loop.
Liquid hydrogen cool the helium that cool the air.

 

[zebedee]

Seen at the 2006 Salmesbury open day...

Zeb

Hotol/Antonov An225 Combo by InfinitePlanes, on Flickr

 

[hesham]

Very beauty Model Zebedee.