Aurora - a Famous Speculative Project

I belive that the USAF had to be flying a Hypersonic test plane during the late 1980s and 1990s but whatever it was the USAF must have stopped funding it for whatever reason and cancled the program.
 
Scott Kenny said:
Could have been flying? Heck yes, the US .gov has been chasing hypersonic projects more or less since designing the Blackbird!

But as to what it was supposed to be doing? 'Ellifiknow...
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Just going to share some of my research here, some of which I've already forgotten:

Aviation Week reported a few times a "high-speed demonstrator" during what I like to call, the Aurora saga.

There have been some very minor rumors of a high-speed demonstrator that later on crashed around 1993, originating from Dreamland Resort. Just saying, but a crash at supersonic or even hypersonic speeds must be pretty violent. A discussion of this can be found on Page 6 of this thread.

The United States did have a long history of abandoned hypersonic projects too, here's the list I was able to accumulate:
X-15, Brass Bell (later became the X-20), X-20 Dyna Soar, X-24, ISINGLASS, RHEINBERRY, Advanced Aerodynamic Reconnaissance System (ISINGLASS Follow-up), Convair SA-2S, Science Dawn, Science Realm, Have Region, Copper Canyon (birthed the Advanced Aerospace Vehicle), Advanced Aerospace Vehicle (Later became NASP), National Aerospace Vehicle, Lockheed Mach 5 Penetrator, Hypersonic Glide Vehicle/Strategic Boost Glide Vehicle (HGV), and the Advanced Airborne Reconnaissance System (AARS).

Convair had a lot of SR-71 replacement designs, such as the SA-2S. McDonnell Douglass had plenty of hypersonic designs as well. Some examples of MD Hypersonic stuff:


Many just look to Lockheed and point to Aurora. IF there ever was a high-speed demonstrator, I like to think that McDonnell Douglass was one of the more likely contractors for the vehicle. MD seemed to have been pretty serious about their hypersonics, and they go as far back as the 60s. WE know that MD was active in classified work, they worked on the Bird of Prey, and their Phantom Works division was around that time.

Speaking of NASP, before its cancellation, a good amount of work had been accomplished under the program. I could see a "Black" counterpart to NASP, similar to how there may have been parallel black programs to non-classified NASA research programs. For example, NASA's X-Wing Helicopter and X-36 may have had black/highly classified counterparts.

Started in 1986, it was cancelled in the early 1990s before a prototype was completed, although much development work in advanced materials and aerospace design was completed. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rockwell_X-30
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Black World Counterpart Stuff:





But where else could a high-speed demonstrator fit you may ask? Here is where AARS comes in.

AARS may have had a high-speed component. Every other component existed in some shape or form, so, where's the hypersonic component? UAV's were still in their infancy in the 90s, so I could see a hypersonic plane being chosen over still unproven/early UAV technology. I've also seen rumors about highly classified Tier 3 hardware/prototypes having been flown at Groom Lake, so maybe that could also include the hypersonic component.


So, either there could have been a black/highly classified counterpart to NASP, or the high-speed component of AARS flew. The topic of a high-speed demonstrator is very debatable.

Cheers.
 
If we agree to define Aurora as a conventional take off and landing air breathing manned hypersonic aircraft then I’ve definitely moved from “there must have been something” to “nope don’t think it ever flew”
 
I think it's possible, even likely, that demonstrators or even prototypes flew but it proved impossible at the time to make them viable.

According to one rumour, it used a pulse detonation engine and some depictions showed a large expansion ramp, as you did on many depictions of hypersonic aircraft in the 70s and 80s. Now you don't see either of those. Only a guess but either or both might have been the Achilles' heel. Deep structural damage due to vibration from the former and heating problems with the latter might have been the issues.

Whether or not Aurora had those features, prolonged hypersonic flight would present problems that may have proved impossible to practically overcome. The Space Shuttle hits the atmosphere at Mach 25 and Aurora supposedly cruised at Mach 6 but the shuttle slowed down quickly so it wasn't 'soaked' in heat for any long period, so in fact thermal management would have been far more of a problem and more difficult to deal with in the slower hypersonic vehicle. Did they rely on active cooling? If so, that would have added weight and complexity, with the testing burden of a major innovation.

Some wag commented that the shuttle was not a 'reusable launch vehicle' so much as a 'rebuildable launch vehicle.' After every flight it had to be stripped down, checked and reassembled and never came close to its promised flight rate. Maybe the same was the case with Aurora, but because of the heat soak and vibration (the latter if it used PDEs), it was even worse: the thing was a hangar queen and the airframe wore out after only a few flights. Because of the long time between missions and the huge expense, satellites and later the 'RQ-180' proved to be better value for money in covering its intended missions.

IMO, Aurora might have flown but proved a bridge too far in the late 80s. Now, maybe not.
 
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Rhinocrates said:
Some wag commented that the shuttle was not a 'reusable launch vehicle' so much as a 'rebuildable launch vehicle.' After every flight it had to be stripped down, checked and reassembled and never came close to its promised flight rate. Maybe the same was the case with Aurora, but because of the heat soak and vibration (the latter if it used PDEs), it was even worse: the thing was a hangar queen and the airframe wore out after only a few flights. Because of the long time between missions and the huge expense, satellites and later the 'RQ-180' proved to be better value for money in covering its intended missions.
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Money and man-hours are things the military has not got an infinite supply of, and sometimes not even got a liberal supply of.
In general, the civilian population who have not been personally involved, simply do not grasp the amount of maintenance high performance military aircraft require per amount of active flight time.
And require so that they can have that future high performance flight time.

(although, some who have owned certain makes of 20th century sports cars might readily grasp the concept)
 

Paul Czysz, a former hypersonic vehicle designer for McDonnell Douglas (and later the head of the NASP effort), said in a NASA interview that he spoke with Sandy McDonald (CEO of McDonnell Douglas) and that a USAF general told him that they had 5 classified high speed aircraft, one that went Mach 6 and another one that went much faster. This discussion occurred circa 1988.
 
Dynoman said:

Paul Czysz, a former hypersonic vehicle designer for McDonnell Douglas (and later the head of the NASP effort), said in a NASA interview that he spoke with Sandy McDonald (CEO of McDonnell Douglas) and that a USAF general told him that they had 5 classified high speed aircraft, one that went Mach 6 and another one that went much faster. This discussion occurred circa 1988.
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hearsay.
 
Dynoman said:

Paul Czysz, a former hypersonic vehicle designer for McDonnell Douglas (and later the head of the NASP effort), said in a NASA interview that he spoke with Sandy McDonald (CEO of McDonnell Douglas) and that a USAF general told him that they had 5 classified high speed aircraft, one that went Mach 6 and another one that went much faster. This discussion occurred circa 1988.
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It's likely, at least in part, that he was referring to SWERVE (Sandia Winged Energetic Reentry Vehicle Experiment).
 
I take it that there are no more information about SWERVE out in the open Dynoman? It would be interesting to find out.
 
FighterJock said:
I take it that there are no more information about SWERVE out in the open Dynoman? It would be interesting to find out.
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There is a ton of information about SWERVE in the public domain. Much of that information has been collected on this forum.
 
yeetmahboi said:
Revival of the GIUK gap interceptor :eek: ?
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This possibility has always intrigued me, particularly when considering Chris Gibson’s sighting in 1989. I absolutely believe that Chris saw what he said he saw, but the notion of a highly classified black aircraft being tested outside of the US seems far fetched…unless one considers the possibility that there was *something* very fast (albeit not hypersonic) being tested to plug the GIUK gap, which was of clear strategic importance. The size and shape of what Chris saw would certainly fit some form of high speed platform.
 
MeachamLake said:
This possibility has always intrigued me, particularly when considering Chris Gibson’s sighting in 1989. I absolutely believe that Chris saw what he said he saw, but the notion of a highly classified black aircraft being tested outside of the US seems far fetched…unless one considers the possibility that there was *something* very fast (albeit not hypersonic) being tested to plug the GIUK gap, which was of clear strategic importance. The size and shape of what Chris saw would certainly fit some form of high speed platform.
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1989 was also the year when the famous "black triangles" were seen by many over Belgium.
 
Ninja said:
Please don't bring in conspiracies. That's a whole different topic.
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I beg to differ. I was refering to the statement "the notion of a highly classified black aircraft being tested outside of the US seems far fetched…" and the fact that, as the post right above yours rightly recalls, "during the Belgian wave many claimed that they were experimental aircraft of the USAF."
Also, the idea of "highly black aircraft being tested outside of the US" is not far-fetched at all if we consider the fact that the F-117A was used in Panama before its official reveal, and that it was ALMOST used against Libya in 1987.
 
A new one to me - a clip from 1993, where Aurora’s supposed visits to Machrihanish made it onto the ITN News at Ten, one of the most watched flagship news broadcasts in the UK.

I especially like the very high quality eyewitness account delivered by the local chap. “Windows…big jet outlets…very fast…”. Outstanding.

View: https://youtu.be/ZyTXCY78SwI?si=Oe7d_PyZO4hVFtYm


It’s still somewhat baffling to me that the “myth” of Aurora as described by Sweetman and a handful of aviation magazines survived as long as it did, but there you go.
 
MeachamLake said:
A new one to me - a clip from 1993, where Aurora’s supposed visits to Machrihanish made it onto the ITN News at Ten, one of the most watched flagship news broadcasts in the UK.

I especially like the very high quality eyewitness account delivered by the local chap. “Windows…big jet outlets…very fast…”. Outstanding.

View: https://youtu.be/ZyTXCY78SwI?si=Oe7d_PyZO4hVFtYm


It’s still somewhat baffling to me that the “myth” of Aurora as described by Sweetman and a handful of aviation magazines survived as long as it did, but there you go.
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The whole "secret aircraft landing at Boscombe down" is a myth that is easily debunked. Its already been discussed in this thread, there is also a thread in this site dedicated to it as well. Still a cool "time capsule" video to look at.
 
Stargazer said:
Also, the idea of "highly black aircraft being tested outside of the US" is not far-fetched at all if we consider the fact that the F-117A was used in Panama before its official reveal, and that it was ALMOST used against Libya in 1987.
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The F-117 was revealed in November of 1988, a whole year before the invasion of Panama. I think you may be correct about the Libya statement though.
 
Stargazer said:
Also, the idea of "highly black aircraft being tested outside of the US" is not far-fetched at all if we consider the fact that the F-117A was used in Panama before its official reveal, and that it was ALMOST used against Libya in 1987.
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Don't forget the other classified operational aircraft that flew over foreign lands before the public was aware of their existence, such as the A-12, Genetrix, RQ-170, RQ-180 (sic), and the Stealth Blackhawk. A good example of the existence of an operational aircraft that had a limited life and remained classified is the original stealth Blackhawk. Their existence was only revealed after one crashed on the Bin Laden raid. If the crash had not occurred the helicopter would have likely remained in the 'black world.' These helicopters were prototypes and were forced into an operation due to the demands of the mission.

Therefore, It is possible that high valued clandestine missions that require US assets that are still a prototype or even a technology demonstrator could be used as a special mission aircraft on a limited basis and then placed back into a storage hangar for future use. Only when the technology is irrelevant or the enemy has the same or similar capability that the aircraft could possibly come to light. However, the government has a problem with retaining classified aircraft for posterity (i.e. they are likely to end up in a sandy grave in range R-4808N).
 
Rhinocrates said:
I think it's possible, even likely, that demonstrators or even prototypes flew but it proved impossible at the time to make them viable.
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My thought also. Afther maybe 50 to 100 flying hours at Mach 6 the aircraft you can scrap it.
 
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Projects that I worked in the 80's and 90's have become declassified, 35 years ago. Aircraft don't stay classified that long.
Other than electronic imaging (and related), radar and high altitude SIGINT, all* secret spacecraft have been declassified.
Space systems have had higher classification than aircraft.
 
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Byeman said:
Projects that I worked in the 80's and 90's have become declassified, 35 years ago. Aircraft don't stay classified that long.
Other than electronic imaging (and related), radar and high altitude SIGINT, all* secret spacecraft have been declassified.
Space systems have had higher classification than aircraft.
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40+ years and counting. NRO and CIA are still saying it's classified.
It's not a matter of "higher" or "lower" classification. They are special access programs.
 
Byeman said:
Also, was it ever built? or was it nothing but paper which may or may not still exist?
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Built but never made it to FSD. The aircraft turned itself into confetti.

But I can go on!
CIA Counter Terrorism Center EAGLE armed RPV: 40 years and counting

CIA AQUILINE:40+ years

And many more, including Air Force and Army aircraft that have been classified for over 50 years that I am working to get released.
 
CJGibson said:
Thanks for posting this. Not seen it before. Glad I'm not in the same slot as skateboarding ducks/cats.

I'd heard of David Anderson, and read what he had reported seeing, but this is the first time I've heard his description.

Hugh Pym interviewed me on the phone but that seems to have disappeared.

Chris
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One thing that’s never been clear to me; did the media hype surrounding Machrihanish only emerge after your North Sea sighting was made public? Or were there reports of ‘spooky’ goings on prior to this?
 
Im still unconvinced but i do find it interesting, all circa same period, 1989/1990 ...
Chris's N.Sea sighting
Prestwick 'radar track' of unknown aircraft type transit (JB)
'delta with no fin' at Macrihanish (JCsr)
There was a photo taken supposedly of the latter but far too distant and grainy to coalesce anything useful
 
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TsrJoe said:
All circa same period, 1989/1990 ...
Chris's N.Sea sighting
Prestwick 'radar track' of unknown aircraft type transit (JB)
'delta with no fin' at Macrihanish (JWCsr)
There was a photo taken supposedly of the latter but far too distant and grainy to coalesce anything useful
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Very interesting. Does a copy of that photo still exist (or indeed a written account of the sighting)?
 
MeachamLake said:
Very interesting. Does a copy of that photo still exist (or indeed a written account of the sighting)?
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Well, a little earlier there were rumors and press articles saying that a high-speed replacement for the SR-71 was being developed (I remember seeing a concept launched from a C-5 Galaxy) and that Lockheed had already tested a hypersonic aircraft in the early 80s.
 
MeachamLake said:
One thing that’s never been clear to me; did the media hype surrounding Machrihanish only emerge after your North Sea sighting was made public? Or were there reports of ‘spooky’ goings on prior to this?
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Oh no. Machrihanish was always in the mix whenever unusual Cold War, especially US, activity in the UK was mentioned. The media was intrigued by a 10,000ft runway with a contingent of Navy SEALs in what was effectively the middle of nowhere, so it had, let’s say…mystique.

Much of that mystique probably relates to it being a location for (maybe) loading NDBs on maritime patrol aircraft, hence the security.

The result being that a whole load of cobblers has been written about Machrihanish, including (and the bloke was being serious) that the runway was painted to reflect the seasons. Think ptarmigan, but a 10,000ft runway.

Chris
 
CJGibson said:
Oh no. Machrihanish was always in the mix whenever unusual Cold War, especially US, activity in the UK was mentioned. The media was intrigued by a 10,000ft runway with a contingent of Navy SEALs in what was effectively the middle of nowhere, so it had, let’s say…mystique.

Much of that mystique probably relates to it being a location for (maybe) loading NDBs on maritime patrol aircraft, hence the security.

The result being that a whole load of cobblers has been written about Machrihanish, including (and the bloke was being serious) that the runway was painted to reflect the seasons. Think ptarmigan, but a 10,000ft runway.

Chris
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Thanks Chris - not hard to see why the place piqued so much interest, as you say. The thought of Machrihanish having a top secret outdoor decorating team is also wonderfully nuts. I must ask them for a quote to spruce up my shed.

If I may ask - all these years later, do you feel you have come across any credible theories/info about what you saw from the oil rig in 1989? Or is the whole thing still just as much of a mystery now as it was back then?
 

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