Aurora - a Famous Speculative Project

[Whisperstream]

I think Ben Rich was lying. I don't believe the funding was ATB related, but was for something else Lockheed was ankle deep into, and it wasn't a go fast platform.

Ben Rich wasn't the only person to say this. A leading hypersonics expert and consultant to military and industry, who is in a position to know, also made this claim. Most important, Adelbert "Buz" Carpenter (who came up with the AURORA name) has explained what it was for. It's not really a matter for debate any more.

 

[Dew]

Ben Rich wasn't the only person to say this. A leading hypersonics expert and consultant to military and industry, who is in a position to know, also made this claim. Most important, Adelbert "Buz" Carpenter (who came up with the AURORA name) has explained what it was for. It's not really a matter for debate any more.

Could I perhaps ask your opinion on quite what is referred to in the following :

"In his UK Restricted minute ‘Wrap Up of UAP Material’ dated 22 March 2000 the report’s author – a retired RAF scientist – refers to a collection of slides and photographs that he consulted in the MoD’s archive.

The UK Restricted memo that refers to a D-Notice issued in the 1990s on the Astra/Aurora project (Copright: Dr david Clarke)

These contained images of the ‘ASTRA/AURORA‘ project –[speculative] a top secret, hypersonic Cold War spyplane. [/speculative]

The author goes on to note ‘there was a Press D-Notice issued at the time‘.

The rerference, at least, is not hokum and is a matter of record; images of which referenced much earlier in this thread.

 

[sublight_]

Ben Rich wasn't the only person to say this. A leading hypersonics expert and consultant to military and industry, who is in a position to know, also made this claim. Most important, Adelbert "Buz" Carpenter (who came up with the AURORA name) has explained what it was for. It's not really a matter for debate any more.

So out of all the counter intelligence around all of the special access programs he managed, he decided to come forward on just this one and clear the air once and for all? I don't find this credible.

 

[Whisperstream]

So out of all the counter intelligence around all of the special access programs he managed, he decided to come forward on just this one and clear the air once and for all. I don't find this credible.

It wasn't particularly secret, so nobody seems to have any real heartburn about discussing it. Even the tern AURORA was an unclassified nickname despite being one of the rare single-word examples.

 

[Whisperstream]

Could I perhaps ask your opinion on quite what is referred to in the following :

The UK Restricted memo that refers to a D-Notice issued in the 1990s on the Astra/Aurora project (Copright: Dr david Clarke)

These contained images of the ‘ASTRA/AURORA‘ project –[speculative] a top secret, hypersonic Cold War spyplane. [/speculative]

The rerference, at least, is not hokum and is a matter of record; images of which referenced much earlier in this thread.

I believe the MOD, like everyone else at the time, simply adopted the name "AURORA" for the hypothetical hypersonic platform. "Aurora" became shorthand for something that people speculated about. Some were convinced it was really the name for a hypersonic aircraft, but for others it was just a term to use that made discussions easier. It's like when a brand name evolves into a generic descriptive term. Examples abound: Band-Aid, Post-It Note, Bubble Wrap.

 

[quellish]

In the early 1990s there were several FOIA requests made to NRO and USAF concerning "Aurora". NRO issued a "Glomar" response consistently. USAF told the requestor to ask NRO in one instance, and in another issued a "Glomar" response.

Which surprises me, as whatever "it" was, it almost certainly was not named Aurora. But there could have been some other NRO program with that name (though in this specific case, I doubt it).

 

[Dew]

I believe the MOD, like everyone else at the time, simply adopted the name "AURORA" for the hypothetical hypersonic platform.

Thank you for your reply. I had almost removed the section I had marked [speculative] from the post as that was not within the report itself, but added by Dr Clarke as a narrative in context with his article. (i.e. the report does not refer to it as a hypersonic project)
Whatever it is that the MoD’s report apparently had (redacted) pictures of, they presumably felt comfortable identifying them as the project they were aware of being named ‘ASTRA/AURORA’. I believe the section of the report referred to contained pictures (except maybe this redacted item?) of real projects. At least all the un-redacted pictures are of known, real projects.

 

[Hood]

How likely is it that the MoD would have a photo/slide of a top-secret USAF hypersonic reconnaissance aircraft that they would have in an image library?
I somehow doubt that the USAF would decide to share images of a highly classified project to anyone, even the UK without a sound reason. And if they had of sent images then somewhere there would probably be a stash of technical information to go with them.

I've seen too many AIR files at Kew reliant on cut-outs from Aviation Weekly and Flight to doubt that 'intelligence' wasn't much more than browsing the aeronautical press at times.

 

[publiusr]

As for "skyquakes" I think the DMSP guys or the late Doug Reville and his infrasound guys could have had data on that. SMU thought a quark nugget did a linear earthquake but it turned out to be a false reading...

 

[Dew]

How likely is it that the MoD would have a photo/slide of a top-secret USAF hypersonic reconnaissance aircraft that they would have in an image library?

The minute which refers to 'remaining ASTRA/AURORA photos and 35mm slides' makes no claims as to it's classification, nationality, operating speed or role.

I've seen too many AIR files at Kew reliant on cut-outs from Aviation Weekly and Flight to doubt that 'intelligence' wasn't much more than browsing the aeronautical press at times.

It makes no sense that the redacted pictures from the 'Black and other Aircraft - Western Programmes' section from the declassified report are press clippings, although some of the other images used certainly are!

 

[Q-nimbus]

There will be a series of articles published on the new platform. When I say platform here I mean new website / service.

How is this new website coming along? I’m really looking forward to read the articles.

 

[George Kaplan]

Absolutely fascinating thread and I know it was being discussed a while back, but I had a thought about the Boscombe Down incident.

What if the super secret thing that crashed wasn't the plane, but its payload? If an ordinary military aircraft crashed while carrying a new and classified prototype weapon system or sensor package, would the incident be handled in a similar way to how a classified aircraft crash would be managed?

If the debris from the plane and its payload was all mixed together, presumably the easiest option would be to cordon off the whole lot then ship it back to the States to be sorted out somewhere more private.

 

[Scott Kenny]

Absolutely fascinating thread and I know it was being discussed a while back, but I had a thought about the Boscombe Down incident.

What if the super secret thing that crashed wasn't the plane, but its payload? If an ordinary military aircraft crashed while carrying a new and classified prototype weapon system or sensor package, would the incident be handled in a similar way to how a classified aircraft crash would be managed?

If the debris from the plane and its payload was all mixed together, presumably the easiest option would be to cordon off the whole lot then ship it back to the States to be sorted out somewhere more private.

More or less.

 

[Ninja]

What if the super secret thing that crashed wasn't the plane, but its payload? If an ordinary military aircraft crashed while carrying a new and classified prototype weapon system or sensor package, would the incident be handled in a similar way to how a classified aircraft crash would be managed?

Nothing secret crashed, the true incident revolved around a towed missile decoy. The reason why details remain blurry is because the base is used to develop advanced technologies owned by the British equivalent of DARPA, named QinetiQ.

 

[publiusr]

A spy might only need, what? A few bits, flecks of paint?

 

[serg.gonzp]

Nothing secret crashed, the true incident revolved around a towed missile decoy. The reason why details remain blurry is because the base is used to develop advanced technologies owned by the British equivalent of DARPA, named QinetiQ.

There is also another alleged incident involving the forced landing of a classified aircraft at the Kadena base in the 1990s.

 

[RavenOne]

There is also another alleged incident involving the forced landing of a classified aircraft at the Kadena base in the 1990s.

hmm, so perhaps up to some spec ops (AFSOC) or strat recon / elint or such to do with NK, China or Russia.

do you have any more details please?

cheers

 

[Desert Watchdog]

There is also another alleged incident involving the forced landing of a classified aircraft at the Kadena base in the 1990s.

Wasn't there another (I'd say "iffy") report of something landing at Kwajalein Atoll back in the day, "reported" in a book from someone who claimed to be based there... I seem to vaguely remember something like that. All the stories seem to blend together anymore.

 

[Ninja]

There is also another alleged incident involving the forced landing of a classified aircraft at the Kadena base in the 1990s.

do you have any more details please?

All of these claims are just that, claims. The fact details are blurry says a lot. Even in the Boscombe incident we know something crashed, and even then it was nothing "black". What im trying to say, is that these claims don't have much evidence, they all come from an unreliable author. Another well known unreliable author also reinforced the forced landing of a classified plane years later.


Also, this isn't related at all to Aurora, lets respect this thread, as it is one of the last places in the internet to discuss Aurora without UFO's and other nonsense.

 

[Desert Watchdog]

All of these claims are just that, claims. The fact details are blurry says a lot. Even in the Boscombe incident we know something crashed, and even then it was nothing classified. What im trying to say, is that these claims don't have much evidence, they all come from an unreliable author. Another well known unreliable author also reinforced the forced landing of a classified plane years later.


Also, this isn't related at all to Aurora, lets respect this thread, as it is one of the last places in the internet to discuss Aurora without UFO's and other nonsense.

While I agree with you... Other than the budget name Aurora (B-2) and "unexplained sonic booms", aren't the alleged Aurora sightings themselves technically UFOs? *shrugs*

 

[quellish]

hmm, so perhaps up to some spec ops (AFSOC) or strat recon / elint or such to do with NK, China or Russia.

do you have any more details please?

cheers

John Andrews of Testors Models was the author. We don't know the sources of his information. He specifically mentions the C-5C , flying out of Holloman. This is where the "chipmunk cheek" C-5 rumor comes from. Andrews was convinced that this, combined with a sighting later at Holloman of an unusual aircraft being unloaded from a "chipmunk cheek" C-5C, was evidence of "Blackstar".

The "chipmunk cheek" modified C-5C did not exist. This does call into question the validity of the other information about these events.

https://www.secretprojects.co.uk/threads/lockheed-c-5c-space-cargo-transportation-system-scts.12260/#post-651169

https://www.secretprojects.co.uk/threads/aurora-a-famous-speculative-project.7886/page-22#post-629129

 

[Q-nimbus]

Why would somebody from Testor Models write a report to the Assistent Secretary of the Air Force, without any questions?

 

[publiusr]

Hitchcock allegedly spooked some in DoD by his portrayal of atomic power---but that (like the War of the Worlds panic)--may itself have been fictional.

 

[CJGibson]

While I agree with you... Other than the budget name Aurora (B-2) and "unexplained sonic booms", aren't the alleged Aurora sightings themselves technically UFOs? *shrugs*

Most definitely in my case:

Object ☑
Flying ☑
Unidentified ☑

Chris

 

[FighterJock]

Not alien technology then Chris. I hate it when Aurora gets mentioned people that I know always seem to bring up alien technology same goes with the B-2.

 

[CJGibson]

Life is boring, as William of Ocam might have said.

Chris

 

[Nicknick]

This is from memory, from almost 30 years ago, so I may be a little off on specifics, but....

The fuel tanks I believe you are referring to are these:

View attachment 708979

In the early 1990s new tanks were installed at Groom Lake. There had been smaller tanks there previously (the old tanks are visible on 1988 satellite imagery). They were again changed in the early 2000s (the configuration shown above).
There was speculation that these may be cryogenic tanks supporting the Aurora program. At the time we had very, very limited information about them. Few photos, though at the time there were accessible viewpoints that allowed these to be seen.

Since then there have been better photos from the ground, from satellites, etc. There is no evidence to support the hypothesis that these are cryogenic tanks. There is considerable evidence to refute it. There is no evidence of any of the infrastructure needed to support the storage of cryogenic methane or hydrogen. These tanks appear to be be conventional POL storage for aviation fuel.

Further, back when these rumors and speculation were happening I looked deeply into liquid methane. At the time the total production capacity of liquid methane in the US was.... tiny. Not even enough to fill the tanks of an "Aurora", much less support a flight test program. And there is no evidence of methane or hydrogen production facilities at Groom Lake (not then, not now).

Hmmm, I rather prefere sleeping compartments for LNG storage than water tanks...

https://www.secretprojects.co.uk/threads/design-challenge-around-the-world-from-east-to-west-or-pole-to-pole.42374/post-629813